Confused about High Definition video capturing and editing. Please help.

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

Hi Guys,

I am very new in this HDV thing and having hard time figuring it out. I tell you guys the whole process and please tell me what I am missing here.

1) I got Sony HDR-HV100OU camera and took some test shots. Then I captured them with HDVSplit. While capturing, I got the error msg in HDVSplit window "ERROR: HDVSplit can't find MPEG2 video decoder. Try to install and configure ffdshow. Preview is disabled." HDVSplit webpage has a details instruction how to set ffdshow and I followed it though. Anyway, HDVSplit actually captured the video and it was 24.6 MB .mts file for a 7.28 second video. The details of this .mts file is



2) Then I started a new document in sony vegas pro 11.0 with Template "HD 1080-60i (1920x1080, 29.970 fps)", imported the video, deleted some portions and made it a 3 seconds video, rendered it with output format "HD 1080-60i YUV". The output was an .avi file of 451 MB.

Now when I try to play it with VLC player, it doesn't play smooth. It keeps freezing. I moved my hand in the video and this is how it moves -



Strangely when I try to play it in vimeo, it's actually fine. It doesnt freeze and the hand movement is smooth! Though vimeo downconverted the video from 1080i to 720p and may be made some more changes since I am not vimep plus user.


Other than the freezing issue, the video quality is great.

My Question is -

1) Did I make any mistake to capture or to render or to play? Do I need any special codec or graphics card to play HD video?

2) Are the file sizes (.mts and .avi) normal for these duration and they're too big or too small?

3) When I was trying to upload the video in vimeo, it gives me a message "This video's datarate is 1988563kbps, which is abnormally high". vimeo also suggests me to keep the datarate 5000kbps. Why my video's datarate is abnormally high? Which part of the processing made it so high? How to keep it 5000kbps? Will the quality be sacrificed a lot if I change the datarate to 5000kbps?

4) Why it doesn't play smooth in my PC but works fine in vimeo?

Please help. Thanks a lot in advance.

NB - If this is not the right sub forum to post this problem, please advise me where to post. I just registered here yesterday.

[aedipuss]

1 - was there a question?

2- wrong project type. use HDV 60i.

other 1 - after installing ffdshow and rebooting you should be ok. if you still have a problem try installing haali media splitter and re-boot.

other 2- HDV is 13/GB an hour(25,000kbps)

other 3 - they are wrong if you uploaded the original HDV file it's 25,000kbps

other 4 - try setting the de-interlacing in vlc to yadif. and you may need a faster computer, your specs look like a slow laptop.


p.s. welcome to the forum

[hello_hello]

It does seem like a deinterlacing problem. Can you upload a small sample of captured video somewhere? If you google "file sharing" or "file uploading" you'll find plenty of options.

There's also a thread dedicated to HDVSplit in the doom9 forum where other users may be able to help you if you don't have any luck here, but I think they still make you wait 5 days after you register before you can post.... as stupid as that seems. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104872

[Cornucopia]

???

You've got Vegas Pro 11, which has NATIVE HDV ingest (has had since ~ v5). Why are you even using HDVSplit? The DV/HDV tool in Vegas might have somewhat higher RAM overhead, but it works just fine. And you'll likely get a preview, without having to add anything else to your system.

That HD export template is possibly the WRONG template (both sequence/project and export). If you're using HDV footage, why aren't you using the HDV (1440x1080) 60i template?

Scott

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

???

You've got Vegas Pro 11, which has NATIVE HDV ingest (has had since ~ v5). Why are you even using HDVSplit? The DV/HDV tool in Vegas might have somewhat higher RAM overhead, but it works just fine. And you'll likely get a preview, without having to add anything else to your system.

That HD export template is possibly the WRONG template (both sequence/project and export). If you're using HDV footage, why aren't you using the HDV (1440x1080) 60i template?

Scott

Thanks Cornucopia for your reply.

Before posting here, I decided to try few tools myself. I captured with sony vegas before but I was getting the freezing problem when I try to watch on VLC. I thought vegas was causing the problem, so I tried Edius (trial version though). Same problem so I tried HDVSpilt. When I got the same problem every time, I realized it's time to ask experts.

I saw a youtube tutorial and the guy was using this template and I just followed him. Do you think the wrong template is the problem? I am gonna with 1440x1080 60i template now and let you know if it helps.

Thanks again.

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

It does seem like a deinterlacing problem. Can you upload a small sample of captured video somewhere? If you google "file sharing" or "file uploading" you'll find plenty of options.

There's also a thread dedicated to HDVSplit in the doom9 forum where other users may be able to help you if you don't have any luck here, but I think they still make you wait 5 days after you register before you can post.... as stupid as that seems. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104872

Thanks hello_hello.

I just started uploading the file. It'll take few hours. As soon as the uploading finishes, I will the post the link here. This is probably the best idea cos I am still not sure if the problem is with the file or with my slow laptop.

I'll check doom9 forum too.

Thanks again.

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

1 - was there a question?

Actually I wanted to know whether the problem is in my whole capturing process or in VLC or in my slow laptop.

2- wrong project type. use HDV 60i.

You mean 1440 X 1080 60i, right? I have just done it. The size became smaller, 700 MB for 7 seconds video. Now it seems the video plays fine. But i can still see pixels when the there is any movement in the video. This is how I see the video - (please pardon me for the quality!)

other 1 - after installing ffdshow and rebooting you should be ok. if you still have a problem try installing haali media splitter and re-boot.

rebooting dint solve the problem. I'm gonna install haali media splitter and let you know the result.

other 4 - try setting the de-interlacing in vlc to yadif. and you may need a faster computer, your specs look like a slow laptop.

I did it but as you said, I need a much faster computer to do this. Even the 1440 X 1080 60i file doesn't play in yadif.

other 2- HDV is 13/GB an hour(25,000kbps)

Here my 7 seconds video is 700 MB. So an hour video would be 350+ MB!!! Holy cow. What am I missing here?

25,000kbps

Is it frame rate? how can I control it in sony vegas?

Thanks for welcoming me aedipuss. Honestly, I was hesitating before posting the problems here I was not sure what you guys would think if some Mr. X joined just yesterday and come up with 100 questions today!!!

[turk690]

I did it but as you said, I need a much faster computer to do this. Even the 1440 X 1080 60i file doesn't play in yadif.

25,000kbps

Is it frame rate? how can I control it in sony vegas?

That your laptop is slow is only part of the problem. An even bigger concern is that it only has one HDD, so that's where your captured HDV files go. A mandatory requirement for ANY sort of video capture is a physically separate fast hard drive. Partitions on your existing HDD will NOT do; separate USB-connected drives are also NOT ideal. You must have a HDD with its own controller, easily achievable with SATA or eSATA (a port your laptop may have). If there is no way you can add another HDD to your laptop except through USB, ditch that laptop and get a computer that can if you want to successfully capture, edit, and encode HDV.

25mb/s is normal DV/HDV data rate, is set in stone, and can't be changed anywhere, not even in vegas. That's why if you have plans to continue dealing with HDV, that data rate is where all other specs, h/w, s/w, and whatnot have to catch up and put up with in your system as a whole.

HDV streams have an SAR of 4:3 and a DAR of 16:9. Because of this you will have to edit and transcode the captured HDV to a square pixel *.f4v, *.flv, or *.wmv file (either 1920x1080 or 1280x720) before uploading to video sites because they will only accept files with a PAR of 1:1 intended for a DAR of 16:9. Otherwise, black bars will be put on your video left and right, seen when you view online. It should also be deinterlaced and duly rendered 1080p to see such online; submitting the original 1080i will make YouTube and Vimeo truncate it down to 720p.

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

I did it but as you said, I need a much faster computer to do this. Even the 1440 X 1080 60i file doesn't play in yadif.

25,000kbps

Is it frame rate? how can I control it in sony vegas?

That your laptop is slow is only part of the problem. An even bigger concern is that it only has one HDD, so that's where your captured HDV files go. A mandatory requirement for ANY sort of video capture is a physically separate fast hard drive. Partitions on your existing HDD will NOT do; separate USB-connected drives are also NOT ideal. You must have a HDD with its own controller, easily achievable with SATA or eSATA (a port your laptop may have). If there is no way you can add another HDD to your laptop except through USB, ditch that laptop and get a computer that can if you want to successfully capture, edit, and encode HDV.

25mb/s is normal DV/HDV data rate, is set in stone, and can't be changed anywhere, not even in vegas. That's why if you have plans to continue dealing with HDV, that data rate is where all other specs, h/w, s/w, and whatnot have to catch up and put up with in your system as a whole.

HDV streams have an AR of 4:3 and a DAR of 16:9. Because of this you will have to edit and transcode the captured HDV to a square pixel *.f4v, *.flv, or *.wmv file (either 1920x1080 or 1280x720) before uploading to video sites because they will only accept files with a PAR of 1:1 intended for a DAR of 16:9. Otherwise, black bars will be put on your video left and right. It should also be deinterlaced and duly rendered 1080p; submitting the original 1080i will make YouTube and Vimeo truncate it down to 720p.

Thanks turk690. Where do you live in Canada dude? If it's near kitchener, I would like to work under you for free. Seems I can learn many things from you.

I got it. I have change the computer very soon. Actually I knew that already, but wanted to make sure if there is other problem in capturing etc.

Now before I get a new PC, since I already got an HD camera, I wanna use it for sometime. Now consider 3 situations -

1) I shoot in HD but capture in SD

2) I shoot and capture in HD but later render in SD [NTSC Standard (720x486, 29.970 fps) or any other template?]

3) I shoot, capture, render in SD

which will give me the best quality? Or all the same?

[turk690]

Thanks turk690. Where do you live in Canada dude? If it's near kitchener, I would like to work under you for free. Seems I can learn many things from you.

I got it. I have change the computer very soon. Actually I knew that already, but wanted to make sure if there is other problem in capturing etc.

Now before I get a new PC, since I already got an HD camera, I wanna use it for sometime. Now consider 3 situations -

1) I shoot in HD but capture in SD

2) I shoot and capture in HD but later render in SD [NTSC Standard (720x486, 29.970 fps) or any other template?]

3) I shoot, capture, render in SD

which will give me the best quality? Or all the same?

I'm in GTA the good. Exactly where, PM me...
Always shoot in HD and save the tape because you might want to come back to it in the future to create HD (blu-ray, etc...)
Capturing in HD or SD depends on who does the HD-to-SD converting best: the camcorder on the fly, or the NLE as it renders to SD.

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

I'm in GTA the good. Exactly where, PM me...
Always shoot in HD and save the tape because you might want to come back to it in the future to create HD (blu-ray, etc...)
Capturing in HD or SD depends on who does the HD-to-SD converting best: the camcorder on the fly, or the NLE as it renders to SD.

I have PMed you.

Capturing in HD or SD depends on who does the HD-to-SD converting best: the camcorder on the fly, or the NLE as it renders to SD.

Can you please elaborate for me? What's NLE? According to you, who does the HD-to-SD converting the best?

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

It does seem like a deinterlacing problem. Can you upload a small sample of captured video somewhere? If you google "file sharing" or "file uploading" you'll find plenty of options.

There's also a thread dedicated to HDVSplit in the doom9 forum where other users may be able to help you if you don't have any luck here, but I think they still make you wait 5 days after you register before you can post.... as stupid as that seems. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104872

You wanted to see a sample. Here it is - http://filesflash.com/056kjajg

Sorry, its little too big. I don't know why a 7 seconds video is 700 MB! If you know, please tell me.

Just scroll down and click on "Free", wait for 45 seconds and the video link will appear. No captcha or any hassle.

Thanks.

[mL999]

It is not "mandatory" ( i.e. essential) to have separate
hard drives for video capture. It is desirable .

This is to save the time taken moving drive read/write
heads back and forth as the computer switches from one task to
another . This effect is most noticeable during video rendering
when you should have the source files and the output files on
different drives if you can.

a 'NonLinearEditor' preserves the original video source file completely intact.. It makes a set of instructions to pick out bits of the source file . When the edit is rendered to make the finished video file it puts the chosen bits together according to those instructions. Virtually all contemporary editors are NLEs. ... yours mike

[Ashfaqul Taposh]

It is not "mandatory" ( i.e. essential) to have separate
hard drives for video capture. It is desirable .

This is to save the time taken moving drive read/write
heads back and forth as the computer switches from one task to
another . This effect is most noticeable during video rendering
when you should have the source files and the output files on
different drives if you can.

a 'NonLinearEditor' preserves the original video source file completely intact.. It makes a set of instructions to pick out bits of the source file . When the edit is rendered to make the finished video file it puts the chosen bits together according to those instructions. Virtually all contemporary editors are NLEs. ... yours mike

Thanks a lot mL999 for explaining the whole thing.

[turk690]

It is not "mandatory" ( i.e. essential) to have separate
hard drives for video capture. It is desirable .

It is mandatory, essential, supremely important, absolute to have separate physical drives connected to separate independent controllers, minimum 2 (one is the system drive and the other the capture drive) IF one is going to take on any serious level the whole business of capturing video, especially from linear sources such as DV and HDV camcorders are. If you liken this task to just running around in the park goofing off, THEN ok you can get away with just that one single miserable hard drive as both system and capture, together with tons of dropped frames, plodding thru treacle-like playback speeds, system crashes, and an overwhelming desire to smash a sledgehammer onto the wretched laptop, no?
Granted that with today's AVCHD camcorders they are essentially nothing more than hard drives themselves in playback mode and will probably be more forgiving than the linear transport of DV/HDV when transferring content to the computer to edit it all with, the speed importance of a separate hard drive with its own controller is diminished, but no less important.
Before even starting talk about this and that capture program, this and that interface, codecs, SD, HD, and everything in between, IMHO the groundwork should be laid down first and a very important part of that is separate hard drives for system and capture. When this penultimate first step IS NOT undertaken, all the pitfalls and maddening problems that follow when editing, especially for the newbie, just builds up on what is rocky and shaky start. It often becomes difficult to troubleshoot exactly where the problem lies later on, and oh come on they very well will.
This is why most laptops, at least in the forms they are as they come from the store, are basically unsuitable for ANY serious non-linear editing that will necessarily include tons of video capture. In the past few years, laptops have started to feature eSATA ports, which basically mercifully now allows one to connect an external eSATA drive and accrue all the benefits of a separate capture drive with its own independent controller. USB-connected drives DO NOT count because USB is a star-topology controller which is NOT unique to the HDD connected to it; it has to mind all other USB-connected devices, and in the process interfere on varying levels with video streaming to the HDD on capture, or streaming back through the graphics device for playback and editing.
I have owned different configurations of laptops and desktops and have seen other people's setups, including, but not limited, to those who steadfastly and resolutely refuse to add a separate HDD for a capture drive EVEN if they have the ability to do so (available SATA and eSATA ports on their computers), always maintaining the problems they are facing are due to some codec pak installation or lack of it or some other bogeyman blah-blah. Analysis shows it always invariably comes down back to that: lack of a physically separately controlled capture drive.
Please don't confound a newbie in this site and push the idea that it's just 'desirable' for separate system and capture drives. That can be seen as affirmation to single-drive wretchedness and just bewilders and dazes them when the problems come. More than just 'desirable', it's mandatory, essential, life-threatening, do-or-die,

[mL999]

Further Thoughts ------
Hello Asfaqul .
I wonder if we are confusing the terminology. Normally the word "capture" is used for saving the material from any video/audio stream as it is playing , In crude terms "Ripping " --- Utube -- The BBC iPlayer -- or a website movie ( or from your camera) ---i.e. recording a movie as your computer receives and displays it.
If you want to transfer a video file that you have filmed from your camera into a computer for editing or watching or whatever, there is probably some software that came with the camera that you can use. There are also alternatives .
The camera probably compresses the video as it is shot (to conserve memory in the camera ) and saves it in a hard drive, magnetic tape, SDmemory card or (re-)writable optical disc A simple webcam or security cam or birds nest watcher just outputs ' raw ' video for displaying on a monitor .
. Goodness knows how many compression systems/applications there are . Most non-specialist video cameras convert the final output to a popular form whatever form they have they use internally. And most Editors can handle them.
My camcorder records onto SD memory card . I simply lift the card out of the camera and put it into a card reader and then copy the files from it into the computer . Then I can do what I like with the video material. ( the same procedure as for digital photos in our family)

( many people who read this will think that it is all too obvious and simplistic 'too daft to laugh at ' But I had to learn it the hard way I hope it helps you) cheers mile

[aedipuss]

Further Thoughts ------
Hello Asfaqul .
I wonder if we are confusing

the only one confused is you i'm afraid. the terminology was used here properly. he is using an HDV cam that records to tape. the process of "capturing" is used to transfer the video on tape to the computer in it's original form.