Hybrid(Windows/Linux/Mac): Input -> x264/x265/Xvid/VP8/VP9

[Selur]

probably over the weekend, I also need to check if building on mac works now,..

[Stears555]

probably over the weekend, I also need to check if building on mac works now,..

Will this new x265 features appear as options/buttons on the x265 menu of the next Hybrid release?

[Selur]

Neither, it's merely some adjustments. They changed the presets/defaults a bit. No new button or similar required. It just changes what features are changed depending on the preset applied.
-> adjusted the code to the 'x265 Evaluator's Guide'

Also partially good news for the mac users: x265 now builds on Mac OS X 10.6+
(sadly atm. building mencoder&mplayer still fails, but I'm working on it,... 'Hope is the last thing that dies...' )

[Stears555]

Neither, it's merely some adjustments. They changed the presets/defaults a bit. No new button or similar required. It just changes what features are changed depending on the preset applied.
-> adjusted the code to the 'x265 Evaluator's Guide'

Also partially good news for the mac users: x265 now builds on Mac OS X 10.6+
(sadly atm. building mencoder&mplayer still fails, but I'm working on it,... 'Hope is the last thing that dies...' )

Are there any progress with the implementation of the newest x265 codecs? Or : are there any problems with the new x265 codec?

[Selur]

Are there any progress with the implementation of the newest x265 codecs?

Adaption to the latest x265 version is finished and working. (at least the Hybrid side)

Or : are there any problems with the new x265 codec?

haven't had time to test the current x265 builds

I also got some other things I want to fix before I release a new Hybrid version.
1. there are some problems with VP9 (seems like the latest VP9 git versions are broken)
2. still not able to build mencoder&mplayer with all the requirements on mac

[Stears555]

Are there any progress with the implementation of the newest x265 codecs?

Adaption to the latest x265 version is finished and working. (at least the Hybrid side)

Or : are there any problems with the new x265 codec?

haven't had time to test the current x265 builds

I also got some other things I want to fix before I release a new Hybrid version.
1. there are some problems with VP9 (seems like the latest VP9 git versions are broken)
2. still not able to build mencoder&mplayer with all the requirements on mac

Can you upload a fully functional windows version to your webpage?

An other suggestion: video containers are important things, can you replace the container selection option into the "Main" panel?

[Selur]

I assume with " fully functional windows version " you refer to a complete installer.
-> setting up the installer with all the stuff, takes time and I normally don't create installers for development versions
(I will probably release a new version in a few hours. Kind of gave up on Mac and waiting for feedback from two users atm.)

[Stears555]

I assume with " fully functional windows version " you refer to a complete installer.
-> setting up the installer with all the stuff, takes time and I normally don't create installers for development versions
(I will probably release a new version in a few hours. Kind of gave up on Mac and waiting for feedback from two users atm.)

An other suggestion: video containers are important things, can you replace the container selection option into the "Main" panel?

[Selur]

I assume that normally people simply add the extension they want to the output file name and additional container settings are not that important,...
The "Standard output container"-option just selects a container which will be used as a fallback if the user didn't set an extension or used one which isn't known/supported.

[Stears555]

I assume that normally people simply add the extension they want to the output file name and additional container settings are not that important,...
The "Standard output container"-option just selects a container which will be used as a fallback if the user didn't set an extension or used one which isn't known/supported.

When will the FLV AVI and TS containers appear?

[Selur]

• avi: is already supported
• flv: whenever someone can point me to a source about container overhead of flv files (no clue how to calculate the container overhead and I couldn't find any info about it online)
• ts: Isn't m2ts enough? Where do you see the difference between those two, aside from the extension naming?

Cu Selur

[Stears555]

• avi: is already supported
• flv: whenever someone can point me to a source about container overhead of flv files (no clue how to calculate the container overhead and I couldn't find any info about it online)
• ts: Isn't m2ts enough? Where do you see the difference between those two, aside from the extension naming?

Cu Selur

Can you add some lossless video compressors to Hybrid?

Like the UTvideo, Lagarith, Huffyuv and FFv1 etc...?

[Selur]

Will add it to my 'potential extension' list, but before I add support for new codecs.
(Side note: x264 and VP9 both have a lossless mode)
Not sure about lagarith, since the support for it inside lavcodec is rather limited, due to it's closed source nature and no public available specification.
Also this will take a while, even if I start adding support for additional codecs, since I need to read up an the options which are available for them.

[Stears555]

Quote

How can I sure that x265 x264 and Hybrid use the X.V. colors? Are there any options enable for XV colors, or Hybrid can recognize and encode it on the right way?

[Selur]

Hybrid can recognize and encode it on the right way?

Hybrid can only detect a source properly if the source headers are proper.

How can I sure that x265 x264 and Hybrid use the X.V. colors? Are there any options enable for XV colors ...

• afaik atm. x265 output is always 4:2:0
• "x264->Misc->Restrictions->Output color space" allows you to select the output color space sampling (4:2:0,4:2:2,4:4:4) assuming the AVC-profile you selected supports it. (only those that are supported by the current profile will be available)
• if you use Avisynth->Color->ColorMatrix you can also make sure a specific color matrix is used
• in case of x264 you can also set additional "Video Usability Information"s (these are often required for decoders to properly detect and handle, non-standard color samplings&co)

No clue what you mean with "X.V. colors", if the above statements didn't help be more precise with your question.

-> If you have a problem with a specific source, share it with me and precisely state the problem and I can look into the problem.

Cu Selur

[Stears555]

Hybrid can recognize and encode it on the right way?

Hybrid can only detect a source properly if the source headers are proper.

How can I sure that x265 x264 and Hybrid use the X.V. colors? Are there any options enable for XV colors ...

• afaik atm. x265 output is always 4:2:0
• "x264->Misc->Restrictions->Output color space" allows you to select the output color space sampling (4:2:0,4:2:2,4:4:4) assuming the AVC-profile you selected supports it. (only those that are supported by the current profile will be available)
• if you use Avisynth->Color->ColorMatrix you can also make sure a specific color matrix is used
• in case of x264 you can also set additional "Video Usability Information"s (these are often required for decoders to properly detect and handle, non-standard color samplings&co)

No clue what you mean with "X.V. colors", if the above statements didn't help be more precise with your question.

-> If you have a problem with a specific source, share it with me and precisely state the problem and I can look into the problem.

Cu Selur

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.v.Colour


http://www.sony.co.uk/article/id/1207064712229

XV colour technology almost doubles the range of colours (known as the ‘gamut’) that can be accurately reproduced on screen.

and watch this:

[Selur]

From the looks of it xvYCC seems to be an extension of BT.709, so it's still 8-bit, but it extends the gamut by using the CbCr values of 1-15 and 241-254. (so maybe simply staying inside PC scale would save those informations)

So what they do is:
a. take a natively 10bit (pixel precision) source
b. convert it to 8bit xvYCC, which stores normal TV scale (15-235) BT.709 + additional infos inside the overhead to PC scale (0-255)
c. probably (not sure there) encode the content as PC scale content and add some flag to the container which identifies it as xvYCC
d. feed the content to a Display which reads the info and uses the additional infos to extend the gamut

Okay, this basically is a nice scheme to sell:
a. some special muxing/packing tools
b. some TVs
c. some decoder box which uses something like 'dither' to upgrade normal content to high bit depth content.
Personally I (atm.) think, that simply is a money grabbing move and instead of promoting something like this, they should push the support of H.264/H.265 high bit depth hardware support.

----

So my guess is that, if you have content which contains xvYCC you could simply reencode the content and as long as you don't to YUV->RGB->YUV conversions everything is fine, if you know a way to add the required flag (which identifies it as xvYCC ) to your content.

Googling I stumbled over http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2011-April/110217.html which is basically asking for a decoder of such content. -> doesn't look like lav codec does support this atm.


Problem is:
a. I don't know of a tool which adds such a flag
b. I don't know any software decoder which supports such a flag -> so no clue how to do a conversion from xvYCC to in example 4:2:0 10bit (this should be possible in theory without any loss)
c. I don't own any high bit depth supporting monitor or TV


=> no Hybrid will not properly handle content which comes in such a format and I do not see any way for it to do so (unless some of the problems I mentioned are solved)

Cu Selur

Ps.: btw. I release a new Hybrid an hour ago

[Stears555]

From the looks of it xvYCC seems to be an extension of BT.709, so it's still 8-bit, but it extends the gamut by using the CbCr values of 1-15 and 241-254. (so maybe simply staying inside PC scale would save those informations)

So what they do is:
a. take a natively 10bit (pixel precision) source
b. convert it to 8bit xvYCC, which stores normal TV scale (15-235) BT.709 + additional infos inside the overhead to PC scale (0-255)
c. probably (not sure there) encode the content as PC scale content and add some flag to the container which identifies it as xvYCC
d. feed the content to a Display which reads the info and uses the additional infos to extend the gamut

Okay, this basically is a nice scheme to sell:
a. some special muxing/packing tools
b. some TVs
c. some decoder box which uses something like 'dither' to upgrade normal content to high bit depth content.
Personally I (atm.) think, that simply is a money grabbing move and instead of promoting something like this, they should push the support of H.264/H.265 high bit depth hardware support.

----

So my guess is that, if you have content which contains xvYCC you could simply reencode the content and as long as you don't to YUV->RGB->YUV conversions everything is fine, if you know a way to add the required flag (which identifies it as xvYCC ) to your content.

Googling I stumbled over http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2011-April/110217.html which is basically asking for a decoder of such content. -> doesn't look like lav codec does support this atm.


Problem is:
a. I don't know of a tool which adds such a flag
b. I don't know any software decoder which supports such a flag -> so no clue how to do a conversion from xvYCC to in example 4:2:0 10bit (this should be possible in theory without any loss)
c. I don't own any high bit depth supporting monitor or TV


=> no Hybrid will not properly handle content which comes in such a format and I do not see any way for it to do so (unless some of the problems I mentioned are solved)

Cu Selur

Ps.: btw. I release a new Hybrid an hour ago

XV colors has 10bit and even 12bit versions! ))

Money grabbing? Are you sure? Canon Sony Panasonic JVC camcorders have optional xv colour functions in their recording menu too!

[Selur]

If it's mainly a marketing thing or not, the problems I described exist and all the marketing doesn't change that.

XV colors has 10bit and even 12bit versions!

which seem to be kind of useless to me, but we will see may be in a few years we all use such an extended YUV color space for color representation.

[Stears555]

If it's mainly a marketing thing or not, the problems I described exist and all the marketing doesn't change that.

XV colors has 10bit and even 12bit versions!

which seem to be kind of useless to me, but we will see may be in a few years we all use such an extended YUV color space for color representation.

Is it Marketing? Or not Marketing? Whatever, I use it in the option of my first AVCHD camcorder since 2009. And X.V. colour looks so good... in all of my AVCHD camcorders. When I switch off the XV colour option, all camcorders produce worse color quality.

[Selur]

I got it. You think it's the super, for me it's just an alternative to high bit depth which doesn't help me since I neither got a decoder nor a monitor which supports it.

[Stears555]

I got it. You think it's the super, for me it's just an alternative to high bit depth which doesn't help me since I neither got a decoder nor a monitor which supports it.

All HD TVs support X.V. colour via HDMI 1.3 (and higher) since 2010s.
Unlike the 1080p blu-ray, the X.V. colour will be DEFAULT in the future HEVC 4K blu-ray video disc.

Read about it: http://www.hdtv-news.com/sony/mastered-in-4k-blu-ray/

[Selur]

That is nice, but still does not solve any of the problems I mentioned.

-> Please open another thread if you want to post stuff about xvYCC.
I already posted everything I had to say about it and this thread is ment for Hybrid related questions.

Thanks!

[Stears555]

That is nice, but still does not solve any of the problems I mentioned.

-> Please open another thread if you want to post stuff about xvYCC.
I already posted everything I had to say about it and this thread is ment for Hybrid related questions.

Thanks!

X.V. colour is always video transcoder related theme too, like the color spaces and color depth.

[Selur]

Congratulation, you just made it onto my ignore list.
(so don't be surprised if I don't reply to any message you post, since I can't see them anymore)

Cu Selur

[Havokdan]

O.O

[Stears555]

O.O

Selur was always flammable, but he always calm down himself. Himself Selur-chen is not so angry in the reality as he show. He needs time.

I lived two years in Germany, I can handle situations with Germans and their mentality Many German people are often flammable, but they are not rancorous people in long term, they can calm down so fast as they became angry.
(It is a generalization but true)

[El Heggunte]

@Stears555

...
Hybrid will not properly handle content which comes in such a format and I do not see any way for it to do so (unless some of the problems I mentioned are solved)

What part of the quotation above don't you understand

[deadrats]

@Selur:

i have downloaded and done some testing with your latest version of Hybrid, some feedback:

1) vp9 now seems to work on my system, though the encode hasn't finished so i can't confirm that in fact the finished product will be something usable.

2) there's some things broken, if i rip a dvd with smart ripper so that the entire movie is in one continuous file amd try to load that into Hybrid the software fails to see the entire length of the movie and segment cutting does not work with such a source.

the source file itself is fine since media info, handbrake, gspot, xvid4psp and every media player sees the length of the file correctly.

3) x265 seems to still have issues, i ripped a dvd using the standard methods with video_ts folders and loaded that into Hybrid, which it saw properly. i cut out a segment using the cut feature and i chose aac audio with x265 in an mkv container, chose my settings and started the encode. it progressed at about 11 fps and when the encode process reached 100% windows popped up a dialog that x265.exe had crashed and prompted me to shut it down. Hybrid also confirmed that x265 had crashed and when i went into the temp folder to find the encoded video portion to see if it was playable, some encoders played the file back with green diagonal lines and corruption and some played it back relatively fine, though the quality sucked.

i know it's not your fault but i've had it with x265, it has to be one of the shittiest piece of garbage ever conceived. imagine the idiocy involved in wanting to take an encoder (x264) that's built to encode video to one standard (h264) and shoehorn the algorithms into another encoder (x265) in an attempt to have said software encode video to a different standard (h265) that breaks away from the way the old standard structured video in very concrete and tangible ways.

best of all, the clown that is the public face of the half assed project likes to claims that they have 200+ engineers that are experts in gpu programming, so what do they do? they take the code base of a project known for it's anti-gpu slant, thanks to the extensive use of hand coded x86 assembler, as their starting point!

the divx people are getting ready to release an update version of their cli divxh265 encoder and i'm hoping you decide to support that version as well.

[Selur]

@deadrats:
regarding 2: will probably work if Avisynth is used (enable Config->Internals->Avisynth->Always use Avisynth), MPlayer/Mencoder/ffmpeg do not support such files properly and since they are in no way standard conform I will not write any workaround for such content.
-> If you do not want to simply rip the whole DVD and use Hybrids own DVD handling, better use MakeMVKV, create an mkv file with it and feed that to Hybrid.
regarding 3: x265 is in a state I would call ALPHA and for that it's fine, it's not ready for normal use but for testing only. (btw. fixed a bug regarding high bit depth handling in Hybrid which simply caused the decoder to abort)

regarding divx265: from what I heard so far there will probably no updated DivX265 command line encoder. -> So like in the past DivX will probably stick to their own GUIs.