Old XP Computer Boots to Black Screen and Blinking Cursor

[aedipuss]

while it's out and hooked up to another computer back up any data files of any importance to you. then you can use the manufacturer's software to do a complete low level format. takes hours......

[ranchhand]

Ok, great! We have now ruled out hard drive problems. That is progress, so we can move on. So, let's review:
>You can access the BIOS, no problems. Good, that means that the CPU is working and you can at least get to the BIOS.
>Hard Drive problems are ruled out.
>Memory is not the issue, you are not having BSODs or freezes or auto-reboots. You can test with Memtest 86+ (free download, Google it) if you want to verify.
>Power Supply? I don't think so, but without a PS tester we can't rule it out.

Ok, check your capacitors on the motherboard. Pull the side panel off and shine a bright light inside. If possible, lay the unit on its side, you can inspect it a lot better that way. The capacitors look like the old-fashioned Quaker Oatmeal, round boxes set up on end and mounted direct to the mobo (motherboard). There will be several of them, some larger some quite small. They should be clean of any discoloration and totally flat on the top. If you see any that are bulging up at the top, or even cracked and some kind of brownish "goo" on the top or running down the side, OR the same thing on the bottom where it contacts the mobo, that one is bad and has failed. Go here and view the pictures on the extreme right of the screen; those are bad caps: http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=5
Lately bad capacitors are becoming increasingly common, in the last two months I have had two units come in that had them. In fact, I just built a new unit for my sister-in-law whose $1200 HP computer developed 4 bad caps. It is sitting on my workbench as we speak, I am picking up new caps today at Radio Shack. I am seeing it all the time now. Let us know.

[jman98]

Lately bad capacitors are becoming increasingly common,

You're dead on the money here. I'm even reading about people having to repair new HDTVs to deal with this issue.

[ranchhand]

repair new HDTV

Oh, yeah; My Sammy 40" LCD developed 2 bad caps on the power supply circuit board. I replaced them and its back in service. If you want to see Samsung's problems, just Google "Samsung bad capacitors" and you will get pages of hits, there are actually forums devoted to helping people whose Samsung TVs have failed all over the world. Samsung is getting a really dirty face from this.

[Nelson37]

I rarely use Mfgr's diags, and here's why. If this drive passes their test, but fails a chkdsk and format, what does that tell you about the usefulness of the diag? Sometimes, you can run their low-level format to fix a problem, but this is rare.

Bad boot-sector files have NOTHING AT ALL to do with failing a chkdsk. Unreadable clusters which might contain the boot-sector could. BUT, chkdsk should continue to run. Could take hours, and if it does, bad drive anyway.

Never, EVER, say it couldn't be the power supply. Even with a brand new out-of-the-box replacement.

[Cornucopia]

This is where UBCD4Win (or even just UBCD, or Hiren's) comes in really handy as it/they has/have many of those tools pre-installed.

Scott

[p_l]

I found and built UBCD4Win. Any suggestion on how best to use it in my particular case? I'll give that a try before opening up the computer and looking for bad caps, or switching out the IDE ribbon cable or power supply.

[edDV]

Make a Linux Live boot CD disk and run from the CD drive. You can verify whether the hardware is operational that way. It will run independent of the hard drive.

http://livecdlist.com/

Parted Magic includes disk evaluation tools.
System Rescue has many recovery tools.
Ubuntu will get you a fully functional desktop and web browser.

[ranchhand]

Any suggestion on how best to use it in my particular case

Well, UBCD or better yet, REATOGO would have been my next suggestion, but anyway.... These virtual distros are fine, but for the most part they are used to verify the existence and retrieval of data in the case of a hopelessly corrupted system or (even worse) corrupted partition. In UBCD, at the opening screen you will be presented with several choices. To view your hard drive, down-arrow to the partition utility (I forget the name, Parted-Magic (?) or something like that). You should see your hard drive icon there. At this point, your can use the partition utility to wipe the hard drive and reset a new NTFS partition. IF the problem is system-related, that should clear everything. Drag what data you want to save off onto a flash drive or another HD first.
Checking your caps and IDE cables will take the all of 45 seconds for each one, and can save you hours of head-scratching. All you can do with old units like this is step-by-step testing, even testing things you are sure are not the cause. Your call.

[p_l]

Ranchhand, you're right that caps and IDE cables are what I should probably be looking at. I just wanted to go through all the "software" solutions first before pulling out the machine at looking at the hardware directly. The computer is in a rather difficult to access rat's nest location.

I'm still not quite sure how UBCD is useful in my particular circumstance. It's a pretty cool tool, but most all of my data files had been backed up. I really just want to be able to boot up to this install and have it working again.

Family responsibilities are putting themselves ahead of the progress I'd like to be making on this, but I hope to have a bit of time to have at it this weekend.

[p_l]

Another rub: trying to run CHKDSK, I get, "Corrupt Master File Table. CHKDSK aborted..."

[Pete99]

Try resetting the BIOS also if the computer hasn't been used for a long time the battery for the BIOS is probably dead, look for a silver coin sized battery probably a CR2025 same as used in a car key fob remote, try the simple things first before doing brain surgery on it, on the other hand I might barking up the wrong tree, in which case ignore the previous and carry on.

[classfour]

I didn't even ask if windows had installed any updates. If it's loaded something (like a driver) in and corrupted the windows installation - that might do this. The last time that I had an incorrect video driver installed by windows update I had the BSOD, not a OS not found problem that you're seeing.

The MBR or something that would direct to the windows installation is definitely corrupt.

I still suspect the HDD would be the mechanical problem here, not a PSU.

I have seen a bad CPU stop a boot.

Also, check for "stop on keyboard error" related problems - change out the keyboard and the mouse.

If you can get into BIOS, check CPU temp and run memory diagnostics if available.

[classfour]

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1086420

[MOVIEGEEK]

Another rub: trying to run CHKDSK, I get, "Corrupt Master File Table. CHKDSK aborted..."

Sounds like the OS is mucked up, time for a clean install.

[classfour]

Or imminent hard drive failure.....

Not booting into windows points to the OS being corrupt.

The corrupt master file table could indicate a problem with the hard drive itself.

[Seeker47]

This is where UBCD4Win (or even just UBCD, or Hiren's) comes in really handy as it/they has/have many of those tools pre-installed.

Scott

I consider a recent Hiren's (preferably one of the "Restored" editions) as rating very high on the 'Must Have' list for one's computer toolkit.

[p_l]

After trying everything I could think of to fix the boot up including using Windows Repair Console (FIXMBR, etc.), SpinRite, and Live Boot CD to

#1. Do a boot file recovery

When you start the computer, it always crashes with a black screen. There may be one of the following boot file lost. You can do a boot file recovery to get them back to normal.
* NTLDR is missing or corrupted
*Ntoskrnl.exe is missing
*Ntdetect.com is missing
*BOOTMGR is missing or corrupted
*NTFS.SYS is missing
*Hal.dll is missing

#2. Do a MBR recovery

MBR (Master Boot Recorder) locates the first sector of hard disk. The MBR is not located in a partition, it is located at a main boot record area in front of (with a lower LBA sector number than) the first partition. MBR problem could cause the hard disk boot failure. You may see “hard disk boot failure”, “invalid partition table”, "hard disk boot failure”, etc. on the screen.

#3. Do a boot sector recovery

The partition boot sector is a small section of the hard disk partition that contains information about the operating system's file system (NTFS or FAT32), as well as a very small machine language program that is crucial in assisting the operating system as it loads. If you suspect that Windows XP won't boot because the partition boot sector has been corrupted, you can try to fix it.

... I finally got my install to boot up again by restoring from an Acronis image. So now I'm finally booted up into my install, but the thing is I've done this in the past but the next time I try to reboot, I'm back to the blinking cursor and/or DOS error.

First, since I'm in Windows OK now, does this rule out a hardware problem (bad caps, IDE cable, power supply, etc.) or am I just on a temporary reprieve?

Second, since I'm up and running on this boot, is there something I can do to repair and/or preserve things so they don't get corrupted (?) thereby messing up a reboot?

[Nelson37]

No, nothing has been eliminated. The problem causing boot failure has been band-aided, but whatever is actually causing the problem is unknown. The possibility of a bad boot CD is still in play, the last guy with similar issues took three pages before finally doing the tests I suggested and determining that this was so.

Best guess on current info is a bad HD, also possible bad cable, power supply, or mobo.

Backup whatever is important. Do a complete wipe and re-partition and re-format, then a clean re-install. Then, do NOTHING ELSE but run and boot repeatedly. Next step will almost certainly be to get a second hard drive, after this one fails again.

[Seeker47]

No, nothing has been eliminated. The problem causing boot failure has been band-aided, but whatever is actually causing the problem is unknown. The possibility of a bad boot CD is still in play, the last guy with similar issues took three pages before finally doing the tests I suggested and determining that this was so.

Diagnostically speaking, this is a good reason to have a few different boot CDs / DVDs: e.g., Knoppix, Bart PE, UBCD, Hiren's, etc. But this is not absolute, either. I've seen certain sound & working computers that will boot some of these but not others.

Best guess on current info is a bad HD, also possible bad cable, power supply, or mobo.

Backup whatever is important. Do a complete wipe and re-partition and re-format, then a clean re-install. Then, do NOTHING ELSE but run and boot repeatedly. Next step will almost certainly be to get a second hard drive, after this one fails again.

There is some indication that the Acronis image you had (and used) may be valid. (Particularly if it was made with the 'Verification' option.) If the computer is still running from that one successful boot, it wouldn't hurt to make another image, while you can. Personally, I'm extremely reluctant to follow the standard Windoze mantra of wipe / re-partition / re-format / reinstall, and have very seldom gone that route, though this could be one of those times where it's unavoidable. OTOH, I've got more than one of the same rig that I happen to use the most, plus some duplicated components, which allows me the extra diagnostic option of just moving the HDD (or video card) to a sister rig, to help in ruling out a bad component without taking such drastic measures. I tend to save those steps that can't be reversed or recovered from for last. If it turned out that another hardware component was at fault -- and not the HDD -- the OP would have wiped a working OS for nothing.

[nic2k4]

If you're able to boot a windows, download CrystalDiskInfo and run it. It will tell you what condition your drive is in. Bad caps are more than likely the problem here, but operating a drive in this condition will cause S.M.A.R.T. errors to accumulate and eventually the drive will trigger the S.M.A.R.T. alarm (you do have S.M.A.R.T. enabled in the BIOS?), not to mention it may run out of spare sectors (for self repair).

Another thing to look at is the contacts between the drive and its controller boards (especially if the rat's nest is a damp dusty place). Just unscrew the board from the drive, look for flat tin or gold pads matching the contacts on the drive (there should be 2 sets of contacts, one for the motor and one for the heads), using a white pencil eraser (Steadtler or Kohinoor) gently wipe off the corrosion from the pads (only).

[p_l]

The disk tools I've run showed no errors and S.M.A.R.T. is enabled, but I can give CrystalDiskInfo a shot, too.

So of course when I tried to reboot a second time after booting once into the my install recovered from an Acronis image, I was back to the black screen & blinking cursor. Time to open it up.

1. Oh, the dust.
2. Severely crimped IDE ribbon cable. Upon inspection, it's damaged - broken in the middle.
3. At least one bad cap if not two on the motherboard.
4. Power supply looks OK.

After a good cleaning, I switched out the ribbon cable and reinstalled the Acronis image. Booted up again.

Painfully slow. Although I was sentimental about wanting to keep it going, I'm really not sure it's worth changing out the bad capacitors in this computer from 2001. Disassembling it for parts may be what it has come to now. It's got semi-decent upgraded video, audio and Firewire cards I can salvage, the latter to hook up its replacement to a daisy chain of FireWire HDDs, where all the data I wanted to keep is backed up.

Another alternative is to wipe the drive and set this machine up with a nice, light Linux OS. I've always wanted to try Linux out of curiosity. Any recommendations that wouldn't be too painful on such an old machine?

[edDV]

RIP 2001-2012

Few of the parts will be usable. Disk drives that old should not be trusted.

[CobraPilot]

I come late to this party, but: Were you able to attempt a repair install with a non-upgrade CD?

That's all I had when I had a similar (but not identical problem) to the one you've had. Trying to use the upgrade CD I had resulted in the same request for a Win 98 or later disc from which to do a full install.

I borrowed a full retail XP CD and was able to complete a repair. I wasn't asked for a serial number (which surprised me) when I used this different CD, but I solved the problem without losing all my data. Still not quite sure what caused the problem, though.

[p_l]

Yes, I actually did try that, and I was all hopeful when it went ahead like in your case, but when I tried to boot up, black screen and blinking cursor again.

That's something I find befuddling; only the Acronis image succeeds in allowing me to boot to the install. But then on reboot, it's back to the black screen and blinking cursor again.

[Cornucopia]

I doubt the drive is still good, but if it is, I'd say your money would be better spent on a totally new system, putting the drive in it...

Scott

[nic2k4]

The PC being painfully slow now is due to the bad caps, their purpose is to smooth out the output of the motherboard switching voltage regulator. When one goes bad, the power being fed to the CPU and memory gets full of ripples and induces errors. This will either force data to be re-read or be corrected by the CPU's ECC, but in the end you're left with an unstable system that will only get worse as the temperature goes up or more caps bite the dust. Even switching to Puppy Linux won't speed things up. You could replace the caps, but unless you're sure that more aren't on their way out, be prepared to replace more later on. It's cheaper to do than buy a new board, CPU, memory... On the other hand you have an 11 year old PC; I guess it could be worth it if you can do the job yourself. There are at least 2 electronic suppliers where you are and 1 guy at the metropolitan flea mart that would do it (no idea on cost).

Broken IDE cable! It's good to mention that all cables have a minimum bend radius and should never be folded over like Compaq used to do (they got away with it, most of the time, 'cause they would tape it down so it couldn't move). If the drive still appears blue in CrystalDisk, then it's all right; except what size is it, 40GB (that's a flash drive, by todays standards)?

[p_l]

Update: It's alive!




I kept experimenting, both on the hardware side and the software side. I cobbled together some parts (IDE ribbon cables, Kingston 10/100 Ethernet card, etc.) I grave-robbed from an even deader computer, an HP Vectra from the mid-90s. My HP Pavilion 8860 , which originally had on-board video, audio and ethernet, now uses an add-on card for each, hence perhaps somewhat temporarily alleviating the effects of bad capacitors on the motherboard. The original 128 MB of RAM has been upped to the max the specs say the motherboard will take, 512 MB. The XP Home was an upgrade from the originally-installed ME . Back in the day, it was one of the first widely commercialized machines to break the 1 GHz barrier for processors. As mentioned, I also added an IEEE1394 card for a daisy chain of external Firewire HDDs.

I wiped the C: drive then fixed MBR with EaseUS Partition Master, repartioned with GParted and this time when I recovered my image with Acronis, I selected to restore the partition only, not the entire disk including the MBR and track 0. I also messed with some other utilities on Hiren's Boot CD. Then I installed a Linux distro, a first for me, Ubuntu. For some reason 11.10 or 11.04 didn't take (lots of "panic" errors - I suspect my trusty old Pioneer A04, which cost a pretty penny back when, and faithfully burned a bazillion DVDs last decade, is sputtering out [BTW, what's a good way of testing for a dying DVD drive?]), but the last Ubuntu LTS, 10.04, installed fine, after I used a second DVD drive, the OEM Hitachi DVD-ROM drive. (I see the next LTS, 12.04, is scheduled for release later this month.) One or some or all of these steps seem to have solved my booting problems. Ubuntu's GRUB (GRand Unified Bootloader) now comes up and and gives me the beautiful choice of booting into Ubuntu or my old XP install.

Of course, I agree with anyone who says it's not worth it to do all this for such a "legacy" machine and it should simply be put out of its (and my) misery. I mean for crying out loud I have to push the power button 8 or 12 times before it "takes." I know how Cubans must feel trying to keep their 1956 Chevys running. But I wanted to do this a bit for sentimental reasons (this old workhorse plowed away for me 24/7 on TMPGEnc encodes and whatnot for the better part of a decade) but mostly as a challenge and a learning experience. So thanks to all here who contributed suggestions; I appreciate it and I've learned a lot.