Vegas Studio Plat: DVD files to HD?

[OldNick]

Is there a way to place DVD files (vob etc) on the hard disc rather than having to burn the DVD? I want to look at the result before I risk wasting DVDs all the time.

I have other software that does it, but it would be nice to just work in Vegas.

Thanks for any help

Nick

[edDV]

Is there a way to place DVD files (vob etc) on the hard disc rather than having to burn the DVD? I want to look at the result before I risk wasting DVDs all the time.

I have other software that does it, but it would be nice to just work in Vegas.

Thanks for any help

Nick

Sure.

Under File, Render as, choose the file format you want.

[OldNick]

But the DVD format (file type and structure) is not an option unless you burn to DVD AFAICS.

I think it's called a DVD mirror. Video TS, VOB etc.

[vkmast]

Old,
if you have VMStudio Platinum, you have DVD Architect Studio too. The easiest way is use (in Movie Studio) Make Movie w/menus > Burn it to DVD. The Make Movie wizard prompts you then to send the rendered files to DVD A Studio. There use Make DVD > Prepare and you're good. Works in DVD A Studio 5.0 build 128 at least, I don't use any of the later builds. You can delete the menu in DVDA before Prepare if you want.
Note that DVD A Studio can be downloaded in the same file as the VMStudio or separately, but it is included in the deal, if/when you buy the Platinum version.

[OldNick]

Sorry, but that is not happening. I get asked to nominate an Audio Path and a Video Path. They are far removed from each other.

However in the end I was asked to send to DVD Architect Studio, and I assume we go from there.

I assume the folders were some sort of temp file stuff.

This has been the messiest and most non-intuitive process so far from Vegas. Quite a surprise actually. This is actually opening another programme which is what I was trying to avoid.

What if I did not have the suite?..................it gets a bit vague here. I dld the Suite trial, but I am invited to buy just the Plat version, which is different from the plat Studio...

Thanks for the help, seriously.

[vkmast]

Old,
you need to see the difference between Vegas Movie Studio Platinum and Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Production Suite. Both have DVD Architect Studio included if you buy them, but Prod. Suite has some extras you probably don't need, though Sound Forge Audio Studio is the nice extra there.
In Vegas (and Movie Studio) you're better off rendering video and audio separately (same folder, same name except for the file extensions) and the Make Movie wizard takes them both to the DVD Architect Studio DVD authoring software. It's just a couple of clicks to prepare the DVD folders this way. Really.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/moviestudiopp/compare

P.S. and don't forget rewritable DVD RW's if you really must do it inside VMS and from the timeline.

[OldNick]

Well Sound Forge Lite for $20 seems like a good investment. I had seen the comparisons.

I have a couple of programmes that will convert (not edit, although I think Adobe Elements will do it) and if you choose you can send DVD to hard disc rather than DVD, without having _any_ clicks. That was all I meant

Look it's not a big deal, really. I just asked, mainly because it's not as obvious as it might be.

Nick

[OldNick]

In Vegas (and Movie Studio) you're better off rendering video and audio separately (same folder, same name except for the file extensions) and the Make Movie wizard takes them both to the DVD Architect Studio DVD authoring software. It's just a couple of clicks to prepare the DVD folders this way. Really.
.

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean save to disc using the Save to Hard Drive, then feed that to DVD Architect Studio?

I did just try to make a HD copy of the DVD files, and the quality was pretty bad. Stop frames have several "ghosts" of the moving subject. This makes it look all blurred. It's at the mpg stage, not the DVD stage. So DVD Architect Studio is being fed bad video. I can't see any way to alter the settings or codec etc if you make a DVD rather than.

Is that why you suggest the other method (if you are)?

Nick

[OldNick]

Just in case, I have attached a single frame snap of the DVD result, and the mediainfo results from the video

[poisondeathray]

whatever program you're using to watch it is blend deinterlacing and upscaling

a dvd should be 720x480, but your screenshot is 1280x720

a normal dvd setup will bob deinterlace so 59.94i becomes 59.94p (not blend deinterlacing)

to rule out another problem (perhaps earlier in your workflow), upload a sample from the mpg , use mpeg2cut2 to cut a segment



Oh I see

I did just try to make a HD copy of the DVD files, and the quality was pretty bad. Stop frames have several "ghosts" of the moving subject. This makes it look all blurred. It's at the mpg stage, not the DVD stage. So DVD Architect Studio is being fed bad video. I can't see any way to alter the settings or codec etc if you make a DVD rather than.

That's the problem. Don't do that. Make HD copy from HD, not SD

DVD-Video is 720x480, so it's going to look like garbage compared to HD source if you upscale it

[poisondeathray]

Or do you mean HD as in hard disk drive, not HD as in high definition ?

I usually use "HDD" to denote hard disk drive, "HD" for high definition

But the other point is still relevant, whatever you using to watch it is upscaling and blend deinterlacing

[OldNick]

Before my bemused ramblings start, I have attached a segment of the video, using mpeg2cut2

Sorry, yes HDD. I will try to remember that as I see the confusion.

I made an HDD version of the original clip which was 1080 50p

I ask it to do a DVD, With Menu, then stop at the mp4 stage, before it goes to DVD Studio at all

The player programme that gave me the snapshot is Vegas itself. I just flipped through frame by frame, using the mp4 file that Vegas creates and took a snapshot using Vegas's own snapshotter. This is a frame from what Vegas creates to make a DVD, AFAICS without my having any choice. So its frame rate, size etc are beyond any control visible to me.

But all players are showing the same thing, where they play any other mpg fine. WMPlayer, WMC

Is there somewhere else I can control all this? Or again, should I use another avenue altogether and take the result to a DVD burner (DVD Studio or whatever)?

Once the mp4 is created like this then of course it GIGO from then on. This is exactly why I wanted to go to HDD before I used a DVD.

It's the ghosting (interlacing) that bothers me. I realise there may be other issues. But I can't see the point of worrying about scaling unless it's relevant to the effect that dominates. I get the same effect even if I play in a player that does not up0scale or maximise the image. WMPlayer is an example. I can pause the video and see that same major defect here.

Just a question. You are talking about 59.xx video rates. I use PAL, so it should be 50, or 25. Just throwing that in.

OK. Here is a thing. mpeg2cut2 does NOT show the problem when I attempt to use it. The video is fine.

So maybe all other programmes are interlacing, but surely there is something funny about the video itself, if the standard players can't handle it.

[edDV]

I don't have Vegas MS Platinum installed at the moment. Just Pro 10 and 11. I was hoping someone else could lead you through the menus. They differ.

mp4 is not DVD. The file you posted is DVD compliant MPeg2. Per Mediainfo....

General
Complete name : C:\Users\cpc\Downloads\SHOWPROB clip.MPG
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1.39 MiB
Duration : 1s 435ms
Overall bit rate : 8 140 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 1s 435ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 9 500 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.917
Stream size : 1.63 MiB

First observation is the file reads bottom field first when it should be top field first from an AVCHD source.

Second is you have it set letterbox not wide. The project setting should be AVCHD. The source file properties should show as 1920x1080 1.0 square pixels and the "Render as" should show DVD wide MPeg2. I think it says 16:9 display in Platinum under custom properties.

PS: I just realized I don't know that your source is HD. Confused you with another post. If the source was DV, then bottom field first is correct. What is your source?



Also the file shows interlace as it should (no blend deinterlace). When played in VLC (Yadif deinterlace) the file looks fine.

[OldNick]

I don't have Vegas MS Platinum installed at the moment. Just Pro 10 and 11. I was hoping someone else could lead you through the menus. They differ.

mp4 is not DVD. The file you posted is DVD compliant MPeg2. Per Mediainfo....

Yep I am aware it's just an mp4. As I said, I stopped at that stage before handing over to DVD Arch. so I could ID where the trouble was. It's in the convesion to mp4 in Vegas Studio.

First observation is the file reads bottom field first when it should be top field first from an AVCHD source.

Second is you have it set letterbox not wide. The project setting should be AVCHD. The source file properties should show as 1920x1080 1.0 square pixels and the "Render as" should show DVD wide MPeg2. I think it says 16:9 display in Platinum under custom properties.

PS: I just realized I don't know that your source is HD. Confused you with another post. If the source was DV, then bottom field first is correct. What is your source?

Here is my point. I did not set anything. Vegas did. So anythong that is wrong is beyond my control....as far as I can see.

Source is 1080 50p.

I would have assumed that it just be Full Frame, and not BFF or TFF. but here I am seriously but an egg.

Also the file shows interlace as it should (no blend deinterlace). When played in VLC (Yadif deinterlace) the file looks fine.

hmmm..well for me VLS makes it look worse than Win MC of WMPlayer. They seem to mask the problem, until you freeze frame. VLC shows every frame as bad as the stills.

The only programme that showed it correctly for me was the one I used to actually extract the clip ( mpeg2cut2) . BUt it did not get rid of the format, because the clip still comes up- bad in WMC etc.

[vkmast]

Old,
Sorry I understood that in the original post you said you want to make DVD files. Make Movie > Burn it to DVD (w/menus or not) does not give you HighDef course.
Do you Match Media Settings (Project/Properties../Video (line: Template, icon on the right) when you start a new project?

Or do what edDV said in post #2. Use templates that match project settings and take the separately rendered video and audio files (same folder, same name for both) to DVD A Studio.

edit. I see it is 1080 50p. The other posters know more about that.

[OldNick]

"Is there a way to place DVD files (vob etc) on the hard disc rather than having to burn the DVD?" is what I said. So yeah I wanted to do DVD files. When I did that the result is awful.

So instead of just creating a crappy DVD file I tried to do a bit of research. So I stopped the process at the mp4 stage, and thereby discovered that the problem started before any DVD conversion happened: it happens at the mp4 stage. Surely that is important?

I do not remember any mention of using templates that match project settings....I have no idea how to do that. I was just told to send Video and Audio separately and then use the Magician to send it to the DVD Arch. Studio. Again I do not know how to do that. Studio never asks for that when doing DVD stuff.

I may be able to create project settings: It's just that I am not offered the chance to use them if I try to create a DVD,,,,and here it does NOT NATTER that It's a DVD format etc. Vegas Studio gives me (and any programme) a crappy mp4 to work with,

My problem is: Using Vegas Studio (whatever model) f I ask to make a DVD/BluRay disc, and then ask for "With Menus": this then gives me the chance to burn or save to HDD. I choose HDD. The result is what you have seen. It's crap. AS FAR AS I KNOW there is no option to fix this. In Vegas Studio THERE IS NO CHOICE...as far as I can see. You just ask for DVD, then...

So telling me that this or that seems wrong does not help,. I have no control if I ask to create DVD /BluRay....as ....far...as ...I ...can...see.

So. Is there a way to fix the DVD output? ATM it is creating a file that is flickery in most viewers (I am sorry but WMC may be a POC, but let's look at market share) because the video, unlike most videos, does not show properly. If it's making these players show it interlaced etc, the there seems something wrong with the video......and if I ask to create a DVD...as ...far...as I...can...see...I have no control over the process.

Please stop telling me about wrong formats etc. It's Vegas you should tell....unless you can tell me how to change Vegas's settings to create a DVD to disc

[vkmast]

Old,
would any of these help

Setting project properties in Vegas
https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5031

Vegas rendering settings for a DVD
https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1105

Which video format should I render as
https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5079

Render quality
https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/334

Using DVD Architect to burn a DVD
https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4152

Creating DVD and BD discs in Vegas and DVD A
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro10webinar02

VMStudio Platinum Help
DVD Architect Studio Help

For I was just told to send Video and Audio separately and then use the Magician to send it to the DVD Arch. Studio. Again I do not know how to do that. Studio never asks for that when doing DVD stuff, see post #4 again.

P.S. Just to check, do you want to have a DVD folder (w/video_ts, audio_ts) on your hard-drive or something else?

[poisondeathray]

Before my bemused ramblings start, I have attached a segment of the video, using mpeg2cut2

This video has blended fields. The interlaced HD=>SD conversion wasn't done properly

I don't have the studio version, so I can't walk you through it.

But make sure that the project settings are 1920x1080 , 50p, square pixel. Set the deinterlace mode to "interpolate" .

I made an HDD version of the original clip which was 1080 50p

I ask it to do a DVD, With Menu, then stop at the mp4 stage, before it goes to DVD Studio at all

The player programme that gave me the snapshot is Vegas itself. I just flipped through frame by frame, using the mp4 file that Vegas creates and took a snapshot using Vegas's own snapshotter. This is a frame from what Vegas creates to make a DVD, AFAICS without my having any choice. So its frame rate, size etc are beyond any control visible to me.

So that 1st screenshot was of a 1280x720 MP4 ? Or was that because of the preview setting (not set to best and full size)? Was it 50p or 25p ? Post the mediainfo details or better yet post the clip.

The deinterlace mode in the project settings determines what vegas uses for the preview (e.g. if you have it set to blend, it will blend deinterlace) .

Is there somewhere else I can control all this? Or again, should I use another avenue altogether and take the result to a DVD burner (DVD Studio or whatever)?

Once the mp4 is created like this then of course it GIGO from then on. This is exactly why I wanted to go to HDD before I used a DVD.

It's the ghosting (interlacing) that bothers me. I realise there may be other issues. But I can't see the point of worrying about scaling unless it's relevant to the effect that dominates. I get the same effect even if I play in a player that does not up0scale or maximise the image. WMPlayer is an example. I can pause the video and see that same major defect here.

Not sure how it works in the Studio version, but in the Pro version you normally export the DVD compliant MPEG2 elementary video (.m2v) and audio . These are then imported & authored in DVD Architect

You can check the video at that stage right after it's exported. Within DVDA you can preview the disc before authoring (it has emulation, to make sure all your command/navigation works) , and then you can export an ISO (it's a disc image) . Then you can mount that image and use DVD playback software (that's a 3rd check) . There shouldn't be any reason in the last 5 years to make any coasters

[edDV]

First observation is the file reads bottom field first when it should be top field first from an AVCHD source.

Second is you have it set letterbox not wide. The project setting should be AVCHD. The source file properties should show as 1920x1080 1.0 square pixels and the "Render as" should show DVD wide MPeg2. I think it says 16:9 display in Platinum under custom properties.

PS: I just realized I don't know that your source is HD. Confused you with another post. If the source was DV, then bottom field first is correct. What is your source?

Here is my point. I did not set anything. Vegas did. So anythong that is wrong is beyond my control....as far as I can see.

Source is 1080 50p.

I would have assumed that it just be Full Frame, and not BFF or TFF. but here I am seriously but an egg.

Source is 1080 50p.

Are you sure? How was this file generated?

I did not set anything. Vegas did.

So you left it in default NTSC DV mode? That explains both the 29.97 frame rate and the letterbox. It also helps explain the blended fields.

In all versions of Vegas you first set the project mode. That would be 1920x1080 50p. I'm certain my Vegas MSP vession 10 did not have that template setting in the new project menu because "officially" 50p/60p and 24p/25p/30p are not supported in version 10, But there is a back door that allows Platinum to expand project settings similar to Pro.

You first set "New Project" to AVCHD 1920x1080 50i. Then enter Project Properties using the arrow icon in the monitor pane and change to 1920x1080 50p (Double PAL)*. Rename and save the template. Also set Deinterlace method to "Interpolate Fields" as shown here (this is Pro 10).


corrected

Now you have a 1920x1080 50p Project.

If you want a PAL 720x576 50i DVD, set "Render As" to MPeg-2 and "PAL DVD". If you want a wide DVD (no letterbox), set Aspect Ratio to "16:9 Display". For field order, set "upper filed first" for a normal 50i DVD file. If you want audio, check "Include Audio" on the audio tab. Default audio setting is mp2 224 Kbps @ 48KHz. Result will be an MPG file with stereo audio on your designated disk. This can later be imported into DVD Architect to author a DVD.



Vegas (all current versions) is very good at 50p/60p HD to 50i/60i SD DVD as I've shown in other posts. There will be no blended fields. Vegas is not so good with interlace 50i HD to 50i DVD but no worse that all the others I've tried.


* If that setting does not show in the drop down selections, simply type in 50. This also works for 23.976 and 25 fps.

[vkmast]

Yes, these customizing options described in edDV's post and screenshots are available in VMStudio 11 Platinum. Double PAL setting also shows in the dropdown selection.

[poisondeathray]

field order should be set to "none, progressive scan" in the project properties screenshot instead of upper field first

[edDV]

field order should be set to "none, progressive scan" in the project properties screenshot instead of upper field first

DVD doesn't support 50p so a progressive setting results in 25p (half the motion samples vs 50i). 50i will be bobbed to 50p in most HDTV sets for smoother playback. I do agree progressive should be used with 25p movie source.

[poisondeathray]

field order should be set to "none, progressive scan" in the project properties screenshot instead of upper field first

DVD doesn't support 50p so a progressive setting results in 25p (half the motion samples vs 50i). 50i will be bobbed to 50p in most HDTV sets for smoother playback. I do agree progressive should be used with 25p movie source.

The project properties (aka timeline settings), not DVD export settings

[edDV]

field order should be set to "none, progressive scan" in the project properties screenshot instead of upper field first

DVD doesn't support 50p so a progressive setting results in 25p (half the motion samples vs 50i). 50i will be bobbed to 50p in most HDTV sets for smoother playback. I do agree progressive should be used with 25p movie source.

The project properties (aka timeline settings), not DVD export settings

Agree. I'll change it.

[OldNick]

Ok. I am now officially completely confused. I will not try to answer all the questions, although I did read a couple of the posted articles. When you guys start having sdifference of opinion even amongst yourselves I just have to sit it out

I just need to summarise, if I may. As I say I am lost.

My source file is 1920 1080 50p, from my camera.

I _do_ want to make a DVD, However when I tried, the result was as you have seen posted. The reason that what I posted is an mp4 file is that it was at that stage the badness crept in. There was no point in going any further. We are still in Vegas. I was not able to make any settings at all to make that file, during the rendering process. By "rendering process I mean I hit File-> Render As and everything after that.

Now. I have two ways to make a DVD as far as I can see.

There is the "easy" way, where you ask to burn to a DVD, With Menus. You HAVE to ask for With menus, or Vegas tries to burn direct to DVD. This Make DVD -> With Menus option allows _no_ settings at all, and produces the flickery video I posted up....still in Vegas. So DVD Architect is moot .

Does this method use the Project Settings? ...there are some "if so then " bits here, but I will leave it for now. Baby steps.

Then there is the way where you say you will save to HDD, and choose MainConcept MPEG 2.

Does this override the Project Settings?

However I followed the instructions at https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1105, and still got the same ghosting effect

I have attached a screen shot of the settings

[OldNick]

Oh yeah. The only place I have found to choose not to letterbox is when I do the "easy" way (Make a BluRay or DVD) and ther is an option to stretch and not letterbox.

[vkmast]

Old,
can you give a screenshot of your Project Properties settings too? Did you try changing them (and customizing ALL the render settings too) to what was suggested in the posts and screenshots above?

Try using the Constant bit rate (CBR) shown in edDV's screenshot, if your project size allows. You can see an estimate of the file size going to Tools/Burn disc/DVD. Make a note of the estimate and Cancel then. If it seems too large for a DVD, use the Variable bit rate (VBR) option and something like Mark's DVD Bitrate Calculator to determine the recommended bitrates.

In VMS 11, you have the option not to letterbox also in Render as... main window Render Options (scroll down there).
And you can render video and audio separately OR include audio with video.

[OldNick]

Sorry. Can you explain please?

If I use the "easy" way, does it use the Programme settings?
If I use the Render As, HDD, Mqain Concept MPEG 2, does that override the Programme settings?

I will try to address what you have said, but I would like to just know those two answers.

I must say I am a bit disappointed about this. I may not have tried ALl settings, but I have tried a lot. Until now simplicity was Vegas's great strength.

[OldNick]

I can't do the bottom part of the Project Settings as this is not offered Studio (Gaussian blur etc)

Settings: Project and MPEG-2.

[OldNick]

.and a segment of the clip