Hardware Mpeg-2 or Software ?

[video80]

Hello all,

i'm new here,
and already need your help

i want to convert my old family VHS tapes to mpeg2
i dont want to make DVD's, bcz dvd media dosent last long and can be damaged easily.
so i just want to capture into mpeg-2 files, and transfer those files into my external backup hard drive.

i currently have very old flyvideo II capture card, whice can capture DIVX or XVID using virtualdub
with not problem and without loosing frames. (my cpu is 3.0GHZ)
but i think divx and xvid are not good option for the quality i want and for playing them back, lets say - 10 years from now.
so i choose mpeg2, bcz its a standard.

now, i know there are software to capture mpeg-2, i found an old one
that doing the job good, its called : "InterVideo WinDVR 3"
but i really want to make sure the quality is the best
so i was thinking of buying a new capture card,
i found some with hardware encoding mpeg2- and some that dont do the encoding on the card
but with software.

what should i choose?
in those days with fast cpu's , do i really need a hardware based encoding ?

i found this card:
Avermedia M113-C

and this compro:
http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/x200x50/x200-hardware.html
whice i dont know if its hardware mpeg-2 capture or not.

and the ladt one
is the compro M2F, same , i couldnt find if its hardware mpeg-2

can u help me make a choice, and let me know what do you think about mpeg-2 hardware capture
and if its needed ?


Thank you very much!

[sanlyn]

Welcome, video80.

It's been my experience, and it will likely be the opinion of many members here, that capturing VHS directly to MPEG2 (or any other lossy compression, no matter what) is one of the worst ways to preserve VHS-source video that's meaningful to you. Lossy encoders -- even the best of them -- will choke on the kind of noise and line- and frame-timing proiblems that plague VHS playback. Those analog problems will look worse when encoded to digital video, not to mention the luma levels ad VHS chroma noise that adds to the difficulty.

If you insist on recording directly to MPEG2, there's nothing wrong with burning that video to DVD disc and keeping a hard drive MPEG2 copy as well. Many people do. It's not difficult, once you have your MPEG2 capture. Those who realize the need for some level of post-capture cleanup of VHS material would do it another way: capture from VHS to lossles compression (huffyuv) AVI, perform either some simple or, for some, some complex filtering to ensure that you clean encode. Then encode that cleaned=up AVI to MPEG2, either on a hard drive or to a drive and DVD disc both. The intermediatye step of post-processing in lossless AVI is far superior to attempting to clean up compressed MPEG2; once VHS noise and other problems are digitized into MPEG2 or other compressed formats, cleanup is extremely difficult.

It's up to you, of course, but VHS-direct-to-compressed video is not the way I'd handle family videos that you want to keep for years to come.

[jman98]

Welcome.

First of all, I suggest that you stop using abbreviations like "bcz". We have some experienced members who do not speak English as a first language. Avoid abbreviations here if you want help as non-native speakers may not understand them. Sometimes they are also misleading. We've had people here use HD to mean "hard disk" and "high definition" and I can remember some threads not getting the correct answers because the people who answered thought they meant "high definition" when they meant "hard disk" or vice-versa. Your post is not terrible though. We've had idiots who instead of saying something like you did with "now, i know there are software to capture mpeg-2, i found an old one" would say "now i no ther r sfwr 2 kapchure mpeg-2, i fond an old 1". At least you didn't do that.

Hardware encoding is fine. Years ago it was preferable to CPU based encoding because the CPUs weren't very powerful. Even with more powerful CPUs there is nothing wrong with having a dedicated encoding chip on a video capture card.

H.264 is becoming the standard now. There's nothing wrong with doing MPEG-2 captures but since you say that you don't want to make DVDs, then you also have no compelling reason to not record to H.264. H.264 can provide better quality than MPEG-2.

[sanlyn]

Agreed. I'm an old SD diehard who's moving to h.264 myself. I just won't overcome my dread of what VHS looks like without cleanup.

[jagabo]

In general, from lowest to highest quality: realtime software encoding, realtime hardware encoding, slow software encoding.

If you plan on extensive filtering you should capture lossless, filter, then encode to MPEG 2 with software.

If you're really serious about quality you need to start at the player. You need an S-VHS deck with a line TBC. If your tapes are damaged you may also need a full frame TBC. And it doesn't hurt to have an analog processing amp to adjust the picture before capturing. Of course, all that will cost you several hundred dollars.

A compromise is a DVD recorder with a built in line/full-frame TBC and flex-recording (the ability to specify how much recording time to put on the DVD). Or use the DVD recorder's TBC in passthrough mode and capture on the computer.

[video80]

Thank you for your reply,
and jman98, i'm sorry, i didnt want to offend anyone.
english is not my native language not at all. i studied english in school, and by surfing the internet. thats all.

about mpeg-4 H.264
i know mpeg4 can be DIVX, XVID, and more,
but what is the industry standard of mpeg4
how can i capture to H.264 directly, without needing to converthing the RAW file.

i can capture to xvid, or divx using virtualdub
and i can choose the bitrate and many more parameters,
but what is the standard ?
i think bluray using mpeg-4 H.264,
do i need hardware capture card in order to capture directly to H.264 ?
or can i use virtualdub or any other kind of software in order to do it ?

Thank you very much for you help
i really appriciate it,
and i'm sorry if my questions sound silly,
video editing is not my main hobby
so my Knowledge is not very good in this field.

Thank you!

[hech54]

In my opinion....to improve beyond what either an MPEG2 capture card gives you or what a DVD recorder gives you from a VHS tape is WAY beyond most people's abilities. VHS is VHS. Sure a good VHS player should give you better results, but to "maybe" get dramatically improved results via lossless capture, huge file sizes, etc etc etc is a method that many people simply are not willing to go to that kind of extreme for.
Sure it's OK to point out this method to a "newbie" but you know damn well that when they first try this and see the file sizes piling up on their hard drives they are most likely going to stop right there.

[jagabo]

MPEG 4 part 2 = ASP, Divx, Xvid
MPEG 4 part 10 = AVC, h.264

Capture devices with hardware Divx encoders usually perform a poor deinterlaced before capturing. This gives poor image quality.

The Hauppauge HD PVR and Colossus, have a hardware h.264 encoder. They can capture from composite, s-video or component (high def with component) with good image quality. You can try using x264vfw and VirtualDub (or some other capture program) to get software encoding. But h.264 encoding is very slow. To get real time performance you have to use fast settings which don't deliver a good quality/size ratio.

[sanlyn]

I'm with hech54 (cleaning up VSH is a chore) and jagabo alike (going direct to lossy encode is easier but it has its price). And I have my eye on the Hauppauge HD PVR myself. But no free lunch either way, it all depends on how much those videos mean to you. I've taken many VHS tapes directly to DVD disc. Those tapes were pristine and I had quality gear and and above-average recorders. But then there were the problem tapes (and why are the problems always the ones that mean the most ? ?). The first time you run into a bad tape, and it's one you really want, you'll know what we mean.

Meanwhile, a sample of what you're working with could yield more precise answers. Otherwise you'll get a wide range of very generalized opinions.

[video80]

Thank you,

i will try to upload a sample.

i'm not looking for a proffesional backup, i just want to keep my backup as near as possible to the original quality.
i found out that with mpeg-2 and bitrate of 7200, i can keep a very good quality.
i do it using software encoding direct to mpeg-2.
my main question was - Hardware based encoder or software based, and if its makes any diffrent to my requirments?
by now, i think the quality is very good for my needs using the software encoder.
and my question is - do i loose anything by using a software encoder? is it worth it to buy a capture card that is capable
of hardware encoding of mpeg-2? or for a home user like me, its not necessary, when cpu are very fast.

Thanks

[sanlyn]

No problem, video80, everyone works in their own way. The question of ranking software/hardware encoding quality was addressed by jagabo here in post #5 of this thread. His suggestion of the Hauppauge HD PVR refers to a product that records to PC and is of excellent quality, one of the best of its kind around. Whether it's available in your part of the world (you didn't say where) is another question, but I'm aiming to get one myself.

[video80]

sanlyn,
thank you very much for your help.
i cannot efford the Hauppauge HD PVR , its expensive for my needs.
i did found some cheap and good (i hope) cards.
the first one is the CONER M2F - whice is a tv and capture card , but i cannot find if its hardware mpeg2 encoder too
but i want opinion on this card if you or anyone else know.

the second one is the "AVERMEDIA M113"
i think its 3 years old, but its support hardware mpeg encoding whice now i dont really know if i really need.

and the third one is a cheap ($25 - here in ISRAEL) card, named "Sedna - SE-PCI-TV-1 with Hardware MPEG-4"
you can see, its Mpeg-4 Hardware, but i dont know what that means for my need.
cause mpeg4 like xvid and divx is easy to capture using virtualdub without the need of hardware encoder.
and i dont really know when the hardware chip on the card will act while i capture.
here is a picture of that card from a local internet store in israel:
http://www.plonter.com/detail.tmpl?sku=SE-PCI-TV-1


and, by the way, here is a link for the largest Price Compartion site in israel, price Low to High
for capture cards, the price you see is in ISraeli Sheqels. $1 USD is equal to 3.8 ISRAELI SHEQEL.
so a 100 ISRAELI SHEQELS are $26 USD.
let me know if the prices here in israel are low for capture cards,
and if you recommend any of those card .
the link:
http://www.zap.co.il/models.aspx?sog=c-tvcard&orderby=price


Thank you very much for your help.

[sanlyn]

I'm not familiar with some of the products shown, but you should avoid Easy Cap (called EZCap here). A bad rep for poor quality. You might check this forum's capture card listing in the site's tools section. Many of the devices listed have foreign counterparts. The list can be sorted by price (left-click on the "Price" column).

[jagabo]

I think the real EZCap (originally called Easy Cap, hence the confusion) http://www.ezcap.tv/ has a decent reputation, especially when it comes to capturing PAL-60. The problem is all the $7 Easy Cap clones that ship without drivers, or with very poor, outdated drivers. http://www.amazon.com/EasyCAP-DC60-Creator-Capture-High-quality/dp/B002H3BSCM/

[sanlyn]

The EZCaps in the Israeli link look like the lesser clones you mention. Otherwise, the site gives very little info about any item. There must be something better (and still affordable) in video80's area.

[Cauptain]

i did found some cheap and good (i hope) cards.

Any card with SAA713X chipset. Like as: http://www.kworld-global.com/main/prod_in.aspx?mnuid=1248&modid=6&prodid=21

All options are enable in procamp. Great compatibility with Virtualdub/AmarecTV/VH Capture. Nice quality image.



Claudio

[hech54]

It's a shame WinTV7 sucks(so far) because the Hauppauge USB Live 2 has worked very well for me.
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_usblive2.html

I've been using Magix Movie Edit to capture instead of WinTV7.

[video80]

Thank you all for your help, i really appriciate it !

just another question...

if i finally buy a capture card that do no support hardware mpeg-2 capture
how do i capture to mpeg-2, whice software should i use ?
i want to capture directly to mpeg2 (.mpg, .mpeg, .mpeg2?)

Thank you!

[Cauptain]

Thank you all for your help, i really appriciate it !

just another question...

if i finally buy a capture card that do no support hardware mpeg-2 capture
how do i capture to mpeg-2, whice software should i use ?
i want to capture directly to mpeg2 (.mpg, .mpeg, .mpeg2?)

Thank you!

Best MPEG2 capture software is POWER DIRECTOR 10 - Capture in 720x480 or 768x576, in 25.000 bitrate.


Claudio

[hech54]

Best MPEG2 capture software is POWER DIRECTOR 10 - Capture in 720x480 or 768x576, in 25.000 bitrate.


Claudio

***This is based on OPINION.....not fact***

[Cauptain]

***This is based on OPINION.....not fact***

Yes, you're right, it is my opinion of course but I wonder what is your.


Claudio

[video80]

Thank you Cauptain,

any one have other options for mpeg-2 capture software?

THank you!

[Cauptain]

Thank you Cauptain,

any one have other options for mpeg-2 capture software?

THank you!

For MPEG2 try this: VH CAPTURE (GOOD/GOOD), HONESTECH HD DVR 2.5 (GOOD/POOR), COREL VIDESTUDIO X4 (GOOD/POOR)


* (Easy/Friendly Config / Quality)


Claudio

[video80]

Thank you Claudio, you help me alot!

[mammo1789]

Here something for starters and easy explained for newbie
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/introduction-record-capture.htm

best quality ( if such thing exist) software real time mpeg2 capturing ( tested)
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-mpeg-mainconcept.htm