How to encode anime to 10bit x264?

[Deadly9000]

Note: I have absolutely NO knowledge at all about encoding and I have just started it.

I want to encode videos that are originally MKV files at 150mb or so to an MKV at about 50 to 60 mb with 10bit depth & x264.
&Any help about what x264 is would also be appreciated.

I downloaded MeGUI but I have no idea about how to use it to encode stuff, and I have been told that MeGUI is pretty complicated which actually motivated me to try it since complicated stuff=better results. I'm looking forward to having a high quality yet with a low space. Anime are normally about 23 to 25 minutes normally, and I've searched to how to encode anime to 10bit x264 but most results I'd see on the internet wouldn't really help, as the results would be from 300mb to 270mb (awkward?), but my point is having it reach 50mb or so.
If saying encoding from 150mb to 50mb is impossible, you should try ONS-team.com, it's an anime encoding site which encodes stuff from DVD rips and BD rips to 480p and 720p, new stuff are 10bit x264 with MKV format. I tried asking them but they have a "no explaining policy" because apparently it takes too long to teach someone to encode and explain a tool, so I'm here trying luck on this site, hopefully I get any good reply

Thanks for reading&hope for a reply

[jagabo]

You'll love Chef Goldblum:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/343521-How-Can-I-Improve-my-video-quality?highlight=bitrate

[Deadly9000]

All he's doing is suggesting that MeGUI is crappy and Handbrake is better, but he's giving no help at all. Besides he encoded a 1080p to a 720p AVI. I'm trying to encode a 480p to another 480p, keeping size the same.
Nonetheless, he taught me something new, I never knew re-sizing the file to a lower size would make a smaller space

[jagabo]

Resizing to a smaller frame will not make the file any smaller when encoding with x264. The only things that determine the file size are the running time and the bitrate:

file size = bitrate * running time.

If you want 1/3 the size of your source file use 1/3 the bitrate (of course, you have to take the audio into account too). What reducing the frame size does is allow you to use even lower bitrates and still keep the video from breaking up into blurry macroblocks. But the frame size is a part of the "quality" of a video. Otherwise we would all reduce all videos a 1x1 frame size and encode losslessly.

Anime is more compressible than real world video because it has little detail, lots of static backgrounds, and (from a good source) little noise.

If you want 10 bit x264 video use a 10 bit build of x264, or a GUI front end that supports it. ONS-team is probably just feeding 10 bit x264 with an AviSynth script.

[Deadly9000]

If you want 10 bit x264 video use a 10 bit build of x264, or a GUI front end that supports it. ONS-team is probably just feeding 10 bit x264 with an AviSynth script.

Mind explaining that part? I didn't really understand because I have absolutely no knowledge in encoding, I have AviSynth since I saw that I needed to download it for MeGUI for God knows what reason, but have no idea on it's usage. And to be honest the way you explained encoding sounds pretty simple, if I wanted to recude the size I'd have to reduce the bitrate, but would that affect quality? And if it was that simple then what's the use of the profiles in MeGUI, if it's really that easy then there's no need for them, or it shouldn't be of my concerns if I just want to encode anime?

[jagabo]

AviSynth is controlled via text script files. You use that script to open the video and perform any filtering. Then you use an editor or encoder to open that script as if it was a video file (not all programs support AviSynth scripts) and encode.

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Main_Page#New_to_AviSynth_-_start_here

x264 is a command line driven h.264 encoder. It can open AviSynth scripts and encode with whatever settings you choose.

http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings

Do you realize that few devices and programs will play 10 bit h.264? I recommend you stick with 8 bit.

MeGUI has lots of presets because many devices have limitations on what they can play. So there are different presets for different devices. Also, h.264 encoding can be quite time consuming. Generally, the longer the encoder takes the better the compression is. So, for each of those device presets it has several presets for encoding speed. And there are different tunings in x264 for the type of video -- animation, film, grain, etc. So there are presets for that too.

If your source isn't real clean you'll need to filter it before encoding if you want a 22 minute TV show in a 50 MB file with decent quality. That's another big field you'll have to learn about.

[Hoser Rob]

Sorry, jagabo, but I don't think recommending avisynth scripting is appropriate here. I was programming in C 25 years ago and I can't be bothered to learn it. I don't think the OP really wants to either.

However I definitely agree that wanting to reduce the file size by 2/3 while keeping the same resolution is a bit much.

I'd also recommend handbrake over megui. By a mile. It's much simpler and does a really, really good job of encoding.

Try handbrake or vidcoder, which uses the handbrake engine, in 1 pass constant quality mode. The default CQ value is 20, which is dvd resolution. For 480p anime you should try less.

[jagabo]

Sorry, jagabo, but I don't think recommending avisynth scripting is appropriate here.

I didn't recommend it. I said it was probably what ONS team was using.

I don't think the OP really wants to (learn avisynth) either.

Which is why I pointed out the AviSynth (and x264 CLI) reference. To show him he was in way over his head and should use a GUI front end.

[Deadly9000]

Do you realize that few devices and programs will play 10 bit h.264? I recommend you stick with 8 bit.

Yeah I know it, but it doesn't really matter, CCCP and K-Lite allow easily to play 10 bit h.264 with VLC player, Media player classic, and Windows media player. And on my Samsung Tab I can play the video easily, subs are only a problem if they are soft subbed and not hard subbed.

Generally, the longer the encoder takes the better the compression is.

I heard it took ONS ~2 hours to encode their stuff, don't know if it's an exageration or just real, but well it wouldn't really be hard to check on your pc once in a while within 2 hours at nights.

If your source isn't real clean you'll need to filter it before encoding if you want a 22 minute TV show in a 50 MB file with decent quality. That's another big field you'll have to learn about.

It's pretty clean to be honest, I use sites that use pretty good quality stuff. I can find 480p, 720p and even 1080p, and the quality is quite decent, no noise in the video at all. I just want to reduce the space without affecting quality as much as possible, that's my only point in trying to encode. I have absolutely no intention of modifying the looks, like adjusting brightness/hue/saturation or whatever else there could be.

Sorry, jagabo, but I don't think recommending avisynth scripting is appropriate here. I was programming in C 25 years ago and I can't be bothered to learn it. I don't think the OP really wants to either.

However I definitely agree that wanting to reduce the file size by 2/3 while keeping the same resolution is a bit much.

Thanks for the concern but what I'm trying to do is to get into ONS-team because they are somewhat inactive and not updated. I could help them with the anime I download from other sources like HorribleSubs and GotWoot Subs. If my files would have a different size(like +65mb for a 480p episode) they'd definitely reject me without question since their moto is to give high quality anime with low space.


BTW, question, if I modify the bitrate, would that affect quality? From what Jagabo said, I have to modify either the lenght of video or the bitrate to modify the size. Lenght is out of the question so bitrate's the only thing remaining, so I'm just wondering. Would it affect quality as in affecting colors or would it affect the smoothness of the animations?

[jagabo]

if I modify the bitrate, would that affect quality?

All else being equal, the lower the bitrate the lower the quality.

Would it affect quality as in affecting colors or would it affect the smoothness of the animations?

With x264, as bitrate gets lower and lower you will get blocky artifacts (especially in dark areas), rough edges, smeared edges, loss of small detail. Overall color, contrast, and motions smoothness aren't effected. Microsoft's WMV codecs reduce the frame rate when the bitrate is too low for the material -- resulting in loss of motion smoothness, but better quality in the remaining frames.

[Deadly9000]

With x264, as bitrate gets lower and lower you will get blocky artifacts, rough edges, smeared edges, loss of small detail. Overall color, contrast, and motions smoothness aren't effected.

Well to be honest they still look quite good even though bitrate was greatly decreased,

that's a photo example of a 10bit H.264 from the anime Maken-Ki on ONS team's site, to be honest it's still quite decent so I guess bitrate wouldn't really affect much.
So I guess if I only want to make the size smaller without modifying the video content all I have to do is modify bitrate? It's really just that?

[Deadly9000]

OK uhh trying to encode an episode right now, so I'm just wondering, is a bitrate of 320 a bit... low? That's the value I had to take to get a result of 56mb

[manono]

Sorry, jagabo, but I don't think recommending avisynth scripting is appropriate here. I was programming in C 25 years ago and I can't be bothered to learn it.

And I began with BASIC more than a decade before that. I jumped on AviSynth as soon as it got a decent IVTC (GreedyHMA soon followed by Decomb) more than a decade ago. I don't see how your own history (or mine, for that matter) is at all relevant.

I don't think the OP really wants to either.

Maybe not, but he won't have much choice if he wants to join the big boys. Everyone serious about anime more-or-less has to learn AviSynth. But, like jagabo, I think Deadly9000 is in way over his head.

[jagabo]

that's a photo example of a 10bit H.264 from the anime Maken-Ki on ONS team's site, to be honest it's still quite decent so I guess bitrate wouldn't really affect much.

Different videos require different amounts of bitrate to maintain quality. As I said before, anime has little detail, little noise, and lots of static shots -- all things that make it more compressible.

So I guess if I only want to make the size smaller without modifying the video content all I have to do is modify bitrate? It's really just that?

As far as size is concerned, yes. But some videos will not compress so well as that (ie, they will develop a lot more artifacts at that bitrate). And if you don't use appropriate encoder settings you'll get worse results. Here is an example (be sure to click on the images a few times to see them full size, 848x480):

source:


At 270 kbps is is showing significant degradation. Note the loss of details in the small trees, the smearing of details in the larger trees, the rough edges:


At 150 kbps it's much worse:


Those are the types of problems you see with animated material and too low bitrates. Don't take those images to mean that every video at 270 kbps is going to look that bad or good. Every video is different and will require a different bitrate. And different frames will show different amounts of problems.

[Deadly9000]

Well if it's all about bitrate, then problem solved.
& To be honest it's not like "I'm way over in my head". Everyone starts as a newbie and decides on what road he's gonna pick. I'm not really gonna go on extreme details but having additional information about stuff isn't bad either. I was reading until some minutes ago in AviSynth's site and found encoding quite amusing&found that you could do pretty much everything to the video (well except for adding mustaches on faces.. oh well) but my point is that for example I'm quite good at GFX such as GIMP and Photoshop, if a newbie were to come to ask me for some help, first thing I'd give him would be the function of tools, not directly a what-to-do, so that he'd understand more on what he's doing and would manage to do his own modifications if he plans to do his own editing style, it's pretty much the same in encoding, I'm actually quite thankful for Jagabo for giving me the AviSynth site.

[jagabo]

Well if it's all about bitrate, then problem solved.

What are you going to do when you find a video that looks like crap at your chosen bitrate? Here's an example.

[poisondeathray]

are those purple alien boobies?

[jagabo]

From this: http://sitasingstheblues.com/. The only high def animation I have on the computer right now.

[manono]

are those purple alien boobies?

I believe it's from Sita Sings The Blues, a retelling of the Indian Ramayama epic (sort of), which would make that a demon about to get destroyed by Rama:

http://memsaabstory.wordpress.com/2009/08/02/sita-sings-the-blues-2008/

It's available for free.

Oh, too late.

[poisondeathray]

Thanks, imdb says it's in English ? Decent ratings too

/sorry for the OT

[jagabo]

Thanks, imdb says it's in English ?

Yes.

[Deadly9000]

What are you going to do when you find a video that looks like crap at your chosen bitrate?

End life (Y) well anyway I tried to do it with 320kbps bitrate, quality was quite decent, only some small details were missing, like for example at a scenario where there's the sun glowing on the sea, some of the details of the sun's reflect wouldn't show, but it isn't really visible unless you compare both files.
There are no signs of rough edges however.

PS: Purple boobs for life

[jagabo]

There are no signs of rough edges however.

There are lots in the sample image you posted:



Though I can't say for sure if they were in the original video, created by the low bitrate of your encoding, or created by the JPEG compression of the image you loaded.

[Deadly9000]

The photo I've shown was originally a 480p, but here it resized to a 720p or more for no reason, which caused the rough edge thing. And to be honest I'm not really looking to make a perfect video, I just want the quality to be decent with a low space. Of course I'm not dumb enough to know that compressing 2/3 of the size wouldn't have side effects such as having lower quality, I'm just trying to decrease that side effect as much as possible. So far I tried encoding only one video which came out with an AVI format (forgot to put the output as MKV) and came out without subtitles, trying now to put output as MKV and see result.

[epsilonalpha]

You'd want to remux the ass (err the sub) instead of hardsubbing it, use mkvmergegui from mkvtoolnix, drag original and encoded file there and uncheck the h264 stream (you'll see what I mean when you do it). Unless you're also reencoding the audio, in which the process should be self-explanatory.

[Cornucopia]

Deadly9000, it was also only slightly mentioned above, but here's a few big points to consider:

1. 10bit is not STANDARD consumer formatting, so support is sketchy.

2. You get NO benefit from 10bit as a FINAL format if your Original and/or Intermediate files were 8bit. If your original were 10bit, or you upconverted to 10bit for intermediate processing, you can get a LOT of benefit, but not at the end of the chain.

3. 10bit incurs a bitrate penalty that you'll have to make up for with increased bitrate (not a lot, but it can make a difference).

IOW, If I were you, I'd drop this insistance on 10bit.

Scott

[poisondeathray]

2. You get NO benefit from 10bit as a FINAL format if your Original and/or Intermediate files were 8bit. If your original were 10bit, or you upconverted to 10bit for intermediate processing, you can get a LOT of benefit, but not at the end of the chain.

Not true, it's more efficient due to fewer rounding errors, higher precision

3. 10bit incurs a bitrate penalty that you'll have to make up for with increased bitrate (not a lot, but it can make a difference).

True for uncompressed video format, not true for 10bit AVC

See this post and attached articles
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/328901-x264-10-bit-encoder-experience?p=2087965&vie...=1#post2087965



Since that old post , there has been a lot more testing (metrics and subjective evaluation) and user experience that supports this as well since free 10bit x264 encoder and 10bit avc decoders are widely available now - so it's not just "theoretical" anymore .

I agree with your 1st point, that hardware support is limited.

[Deadly9000]

@Cornucopia, I'm not really that dumb, it's like transposing a shitty JPG picture to a PNG format, wouldn't matter, what matters is degrading or keeping same quality, it's quite logic, so no need to round that up. No idea why you even mentioned it although I never mentioned original files weren't 10bit?

And thanks for the support guys, I did some videos, that's the only one uploaded so far, if any of you would want to try&download it http://www.mediafire.com/?uv5um8952jm2hw7
It's a Naruto Shippudden episode. I think the quality's still quite good for a compressed file.
For those that are lazy, here's a screenshot.
Yes Itachi is l3 b4d4ss. Normally I don't play videos at full screen because I'd be on MSN while watching, so I used the only useful thing in windows 7, which is the screen divider(when you put a certain window to the far left or far right it takes exactly half of your screen) that's what I did to my video when I took a screenshot

[Deadly9000]

PS: White dot on his hairband is an awkward MS Paint typo with the pen tool

[Atak_Snajpera]

10 bit really improves quality even for film (reduces banding!)
see here
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1560604#post1560604