Have old VHS & Hi8 tapes; Want to convert to DVDs on Mac or PC.

[MacPCConsultants]

This videohelp site is so massive, I could not find information on the best software/hardware to do this. These tapes are over 20 years old and it's time to put them on DVDs. I have an i7 Mac with 4GB of RAM, and an i7 Windows 7 Prof PC tower with 16GB of RAM and a solid state drive. Would like it quick and easy as this is not my area of expertise. Have read most of the prior threads, but there's nothing recent.

Purchased Roxio Easy VHS to DVD for the PC, but haven't tried it yet. It has a USB and cable connectors to the players. Reviews on Amazon not that good. http://www.amazon.com/Roxio-Easy-VHS-to-DVD/dp/B001LQO4P4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329591787&sr=8-1

Should a Mac or PC be used ? Which software is the best and why ? Will additional hardware be needed ?

Thank you in advance.

(and thank you Mod for relocating this thread)

[Baldrick]

Moving to our capturing section. VHS to DVD is not any dvd ripping.

[sanlyn]

Hello, and welcome.

Many tools and guides are available -- probably too many, as you've noted. I don't know what previous threads you've covered so far, but the latest "Capture" and "Restoration" threads cover areas you'd investigate most often. But first:

Would like it quick and easy as this is not my area of expertise.

Well.. .transferring to DVD via PC isn't especially quick nor especially easy. The quickest and easiest way is to record directly to a DVD recorder. This is the way most people end up doing it. Recording directly to DVD format on your PC amounts to pretty much the same thing (with the same inferior results), although your PC gives you a shot at removing commercials, making custom DVD menus, etc. You'll find free software better than Roxio for that purpose.

From that point, everything depends on your expectations. Most serious hobbyists would capture to lossless compression in AVI, repair problems, then render to DVD. The rule of thumb here is that you can't make VHS look like DVD, but you can certainly make VHS look a lot better than plain, noisy, faded 20-year-old VHS.

Your PC hardware is more than adequate. Most of the software and preferred capture devices discussed here or in forums like doom9 are designed for Windows, notably Windows XP. Much of it runs in Vista/Win7, somewhat less of it will run in a Mac. So you're kinda stuck with cherry picking from available hardware/software that's compatible with your PC's and OS. Not that it can't be done, but there's no standard "list" available. The Tools section of this forum is a good resource.

One of the first things people do in PC capture (other than running out of drive space) is to buy a huge 1-TB hard drive. These are impossible to maintain, and you'd be amazed how quickly even 1-TB can seem crowded. Better to get a couple of fan-cooled external enclosures (they're not expensive) and load slightly smaller drives inside each. Remember that if your single great-big-huge drive crashes, you've lost all your work in one shot. You should capture to your PC's hard drive (it's a much faster drive that helps prevent dropped frames and/or audio synch problems), then transfer to external drives for work.

Beyond that, there are some (mostly) free guides on the 'net. While not everyone would agree with every specific hardware brand over others available, and while these sites can't possibly be updated every 15 minutes to keep pace with new versions of everything, the basic techniques, hardware and software mentioned will give you an idea of what's involved and how it's best accomplished:

Digitalfaq's Guides to Digital Video and Capture
Doom9 Guide to VirtualDub Processing
Doom9 Guide to Avisynth Processing

Much of the material in these guides was created/contributed by past or current members of videohelp and similar forums.

[MacPCConsultants]

Wow ! What a comprehensive reply. Thank you. So instead of using Roxio's package you recommend my Hi8 player and VHS tape player go directly into my DVR which can accept a dual layer DVD, correct ?

I don't care about quality as much as preservation.

If one can connect a player and recorder directly, what's the purpose of Roxio (or anyone) making software and USB attachment devices ? Must be for editing.

[sanlyn]

Wow ! What a comprehensive reply. Thank you. So instead of using Roxio's package you recommend my Hi8 player and VHS tape player go directly into my DVR which can accept a dual layer DVD, correct ?

I don't care about quality as much as preservation.

If one can connect a player and recorder directly, what's the purpose of Roxio (or anyone) making software and USB attachment devices ? Must be for editing.

I'm afraid you miss the point. Recording noisy tape to DVD is not only the quick and the dirty way, it's also the worst way. But if you don't care about quality, give it a try.

[MacPCConsultants]

"I'm afraid you miss the point. Recording noisy tape to DVD is not only the quick and the dirty way, it's also the worst way. But if you don't care about quality, give it a try.
'


Correct. Missed that point completely. Your post above, however, made it clear. Will try the Roxio adapter and software and see if it's acceptable.

Thank you.

[lordsmurf]

The Roxio device you bought is low-end junk.
You're not going to get good results -- unless your tolerance for quality is very low.
The DVDs you make will look worse than the tape you started from.

A DVD can look better than a tape, with the right hardware and know-how.
So ask yourself: How important are your family memories?

[lordsmurf]

and images gradually fade below the residual level of tape layer noise. So old tape (and even new VHS tape) is noisy. Playback is not as steady as digital video, so at least a line-level tbc device of

This is a myth and physical impossibility.
I've addressed this several times through the years. Tapes cannot "fade" in any way.
Neither science nor empirical data supports this over-repeated idea.

Just an FYI.

[sanlyn]

Hm. I don't doubt lordsmurf's expertise, so likely my reasoning is incorrect (What? This has happened before? ) Then, let's state it another way. The problem is, perhaps, that tape noise increases with age? Old tapes develop problems I don't see on new tapes; for example, discoloration along borders caused by poor storage, oxidation, etc. Why do aged tapes look so much worse than they did when first played?

[MacPCConsultants]

This is not my area of expertise. Can't understand much of what has been posted. Where can an easy "cookbook" method be found ? But this, do this, run this, etc.

[MacPCConsultants]

The Roxio device you bought is low-end junk.
You're not going to get good results -- unless your tolerance for quality is very low.
The DVDs you make will look worse than the tape you started from.

Anyone else agree with this ? Anyone here actually tried this Roxio device and software and can comment on both ?

[manono]

If lordsmurf said it, you can bank on it. I read a few of the reviews at Amazon.com, and they're enough to scare anyone away, if he didn't already know enough about Roxio to steer clear from any consumer product they make and therefore wouldn't consider buying it in the first place.

[sanlyn]

Well...when I saw Roxio mentioned I didn't want to say much, as I last used their stuff a long time ago. Surely there must be something better out there, but Vista/Win7 is the main obstacle. I see that system only when I repair clients' PC's or work on my wife's computer, since Vista and later is a design that crippled functionality and useability for the purpose of selling dubious "security features" that do nothing for malware except to make it more difficult to remove. But I see posts by Vista users who seem to get decent results from other products. So if anyone will chime in with recommendations . . .?

[davideck]

and images gradually fade below the residual level of tape layer noise. So old tape (and even new VHS tape) is noisy. Playback is not as steady as digital video, so at least a line-level tbc device of

This is a myth and physical impossibility.
I've addressed this several times through the years. Tapes cannot "fade" in any way.
Neither science nor empirical data supports this over-repeated idea.

Just an FYI.

There is a property called "magnetic remanence decay". It is neither myth nor physical impossibility.

http://www.scancafe.com/image-preservation/videotape-decay
http://sportsvideo.org/main/files/2010/08/video-tape-white-paper.pdf

"...the research generally indicates that magnetic tapes (like VHS, VHS-C, etc.) stored well, will experience 10-20% signal loss, purely from magnetic remanence decay, after 10-25 years."

[Cauptain]

The Roxio device you bought is low-end junk.
You're not going to get good results -- unless your tolerance for quality is very low.
The DVDs you make will look worse than the tape you started from.

Anyone else agree with this ? Anyone here actually tried this Roxio device and software and can comment on both ?

I agree in full words with lordsmurf.

Bought Roxio Game Capture (January, 2011), in 4 months my device is problematic. Roxio forum, Roxio RMa, *.Roxio...Nothing help me. I banned from Roxio forum because I very tired from "excuses" or "Its your PC problems".

The software editor is piece of trash. Hang my PC anytime. No way simple "Aspect Ratio Individual" option. all 16x9 or all 4:3. Ridiculous.

Never more bought any *Roxio*.*

Lost money, time, some hair...



Claudio

[sanlyn]

Oh. That's what I vaguely recall having read some years back, and my remark about fading was based on that. So it's either "fading", signal loss, whatever it might be called. Old tapes always seem to have "lost" something and/or "gained" some noise. Tape also changes shape, as I recall, tending to curl inward at top and bottom edges under improper storage, and get discolored on top and bottom borders due to excess humidity, heat, etc. In any case, I'm willing to go along with lordsmurf and davideck alike: something between magnetic layer decay/signal loss and plain old oxidation. I was told by a VCR tech some time back that years of oxidation produces a corrosive dust layer that injures video heads. Not to mention abuse with VCR features like fast-rewind/repeat, commercial skip, and all those gizmos. It's a wonder an old tape play will play at all.

Any way you look at it, MacPCConsultants, old tape is a hassle full of noisy junk that gives digital encoders a fit. The noise looks worse after encoding. Upsampling errors from HDTV don't help. That's why many people who are serious about archiving their more valued old tapes will capture to lossless AVI, do some clean up, then encode to DVD.

[Valnar]

You are going to get a lot of replies on how to post-process the video, clean it up and burn it to DVD. However, the absolute best way to get it on your computer, with good quality and the A/V IN SYNC (you think this part would be easy - it's not), is to buy a Canopus ADVC-110. If you need a firewire port, buy a firewire PCI card as well. I bought one used on eBay many years ago, converted all my VHS + 8mm tapes I own, then sold it again on eBay. I think my net loss was around $5.

There is no other product which does a better job keeping the clock in sync on audio & video than the Canopus. It'll capture to your PC/Mac in DV format, which is a very lightly compressed format good for post processing. I'd dedicated a 1TB 7200rpm hard drive for the capture, like a Western Digital Caviar Black.

Once you get the video on your computer safe & sound, you can then worry about putting it to DVD.

[sanlyn]

Working with VHS captured to lossy DV compression is a total pain the neck, a great way to make a difficult task more difficult. It could be done, but why?

[Valnar]

Working with VHS captured to lossy DV compression is a total pain the neck, a great way to make a difficult task more difficult. It could be done, but why?

Whaa?

It's not a pain in the neck and actually one of the best ways to do it. Now, if you just want to capture it directly to DVD, don't care about A/V sync or cleaning up the resulting video, there are other "less difficult" ways to do it.

[sanlyn]

I disagree. I've done it. Hated every minute of it. Hope I never have to do it that way again.

[Valnar]

I disagree. I've done it. Hated every minute of it. Hope I never have to do it that way again.

To each their own. I haven't found a better way to do it.

[MacPCConsultants]

If lordsmurf said it, you can bank on it. I read a few of the reviews at Amazon.com, and they're enough to scare anyone away, if he didn't already know enough about Roxio to steer clear from any consumer product they make and therefore wouldn't consider buying it in the first place.

Saw those. Thank you. However I've had great results from some products having worse reviews. So still would like someone with personal experience with this latest version software/hardware by Roxio and/or an easy list of what to do to make a good DVD of the VHS and Hi8 tapes. 16GB RAM, i7 processor, two DL DVD burners, Win 7 Prof 64 bit.

Let me read over the relevant posts again.

EDIT- When I open a window to reply, more posts are seen inferiorly. One of them was this

Valnar
Re: Have old VHS & Hi8 tapes; Want to convert to DVDs on Mac or PC.

You are going to get a lot of replies on how to post-process the video, clean it up and burn it to DVD. However, the absolute best way to get it on your computer, with good quality and the A/V IN SYNC (you think this part would be easy - it's not), is to buy a Canopus ADVC-110. If you need a firewire port, buy a firewire PCI card as well. I bought one used on eBay many years ago, converted all my VHS + 8mm tapes I own, then sold it again on eBay. I think my net loss was around $5.

There is no other product which does a better job keeping the clock in sync on audio & video than the Canopus. It'll capture to your PC/Mac in DV format, which is a very lightly compressed format good for post processing. I'd dedicated a 1TB 7200rpm hard drive for the capture, like a Western Digital Caviar Black.

Once you get the video on your computer safe & sound, you can then worry about putting it to DVD.
21st Feb 2012 17:32


But those posts disappear AFTER I submit the reply !

[sanlyn]

The post you quoted is still there: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/343715-Have-old-VHS-Hi8-tapes-Want-to-convert-to-DV...=1#post2143095

I gave up years ago on anything made by Roxio. Its operation was inferior and buggy in every way, and a couple of people I know since that time were seriously disappointed with their purchase. Use it and let us know what you think.

[usually_quiet]

This is not my area of expertise. Can't understand much of what has been posted. Where can an easy "cookbook" method be found ? But this, do this, run this, etc.

I have been a member here for 6 years and I have never seen a guide with an easy cookbook method for doing computer-based analog tape to DVD conversions. Some tapes are relatively easy to capture. Others have problems that make it very difficult to get a watchable result, even for experts with an aresenal of expensive equipment at their disposal. Although you don't see them when viewing a tape using a TV, playing any analog tape creates time-base errors that cause vertical lines in the captures to be squiggly if they are not corrected with a TBC (time base corrector). There are other possible defects too, that are less easy to fix, such as a seriously warped picture or discoloration.

If you insist on using a computer, you need a relatively clean, very orderly analog signal feeding the capture device to assure a good digital conversion. An average VCR will not provide that. The advanced amateurs here use pro-qualiity VHS decks with built-in line TBCs (none of which has been made for over 10 years), plus a separate full-frame TBC, and possibly a proc amp too, to provide the best signal they can to their capture device. People who are less picky or don't have money for better equipment use a good, well-maintained consumer VCR, plus a DVD recorder, and maybe an inexpensive (about $200) full-frame TBC. The DVD recorder is used as a pass-through for the signal feeding into their PC capture device. DVD recorders include circuitry that approximates the functions of a line TBC.

If you want an easy, virtually idiot-proof method, a DVD recorder as was suggested previously, is as close as you will get, even though the results will be so-so. You can get a refurbished tunerless Magnavox DVD recorder from Walmart for $50 plus tax and shipping http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magnavox-ZC320MW8/17281655 There are better DVD recorders, but they will cost you more, if you can find one. DVD recorders are on the verge of extinction in N. America. After this year, there may be none at all made for this part of the world.

[MacPCConsultants]

The Roxio device you bought is low-end junk.
You're not going to get good results -- unless your tolerance for quality is very low.
The DVDs you make will look worse than the tape you started from.

Anyone else agree with this ? Anyone here actually tried this Roxio device and software and can comment on both ?

I agree in full words with lordsmurf.

Bought Roxio Game Capture (January, 2011), in 4 months my device is problematic. Roxio forum, Roxio RMa, *.Roxio...Nothing help me. I banned from Roxio forum because I very tired from "excuses" or "Its your PC problems".

The software editor is piece of trash. Hang my PC anytime. No way simple "Aspect Ratio Individual" option. all 16x9 or all 4:3. Ridiculous.

Never more bought any *Roxio*.*

Lost money, time, some hair...



Claudio

Okay, but that's a different Roxio product. Even the same car manufacturer can make one good model car.

[Cauptain]

Okay, but that's a different Roxio product. Even the same car manufacturer can make one good model car.

If chipset is same...You will same problems. New skin, old problems.

I hope that your board has a different chipset. But the software remains the worst.





Claudio

[sanlyn]

You haven't bought that Roxio package yet? Low price, free shipping. Let us know how it goes.

[MacPCConsultants]

I have Firewire on both my Macs and PCs.

So you men feel that this is the better route ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w20j6BvmxOs

http://www.amazon.com/Canopus-77010150100-ADVC110-Converter/dp/B00030ATTO/ref=sr_1_1?i...0015681&sr=8-1

[MacPCConsultants]

This is not my area of expertise. Can't understand much of what has been posted. Where can an easy "cookbook" method be found ? But this, do this, run this, etc.

I have been a member here for 6 years and I have never seen a guide with an easy cookbook method for doing computer-based analog tape to DVD conversions. Some tapes are relatively easy to capture. Others have problems that make it very difficult to get a watchable result, even for experts with an aresenal of expensive equipment at their disposal. Although you don't see them when viewing a tape using a TV, playing any analog tape creates time-base errors that cause vertical lines in the captures to be squiggly if they are not corrected with a TBC (time base corrector). There are other possible defects too, that are less easy to fix, such as a seriously warped picture or discoloration.

If you insist on using a computer, you need a relatively clean, very orderly analog signal feeding the capture device to assure a good digital conversion. An average VCR will not provide that. The advanced amateurs here use pro-qualiity VHS decks with built-in line TBCs (none of which has been made for over 10 years), plus a separate full-frame TBC, and possibly a proc amp too, to provide the best signal they can to their capture device. People who are less picky or don't have money for better equipment use a good, well-maintained consumer VCR, plus a DVD recorder, and maybe an inexpensive (about $200) full-frame TBC. The DVD recorder is used as a pass-through for the signal feeding into their PC capture device. DVD recorders include circuitry that approximates the functions of a line TBC.

If you want an easy, virtually idiot-proof method, a DVD recorder as was suggested previously, is as close as you will get, even though the results will be so-so. You can get a refurbished tunerless Magnavox DVD recorder from Walmart for $50 plus tax and shipping http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magnavox-ZC320MW8/17281655 There are better DVD recorders, but they will cost you more, if you can find one. DVD recorders are on the verge of extinction in N. America. After this year, there may be none at all made for this part of the world.

I have a Samsung and Panasonic DVR's both handle dual layer DVD's.

[MacPCConsultants]

You haven't bought that Roxio package yet? Low price, free shipping. Let us know how it goes.

Yes, I have it. But didn't want to invest time into it if there's a better route. Money is not the issue. Convenience and quality is what is sought.