Common Codecs and xVid / DivX compatability

[anonymous_whatever]

What is the most common codec out there to ensure that users with a standard windows install will not have to install any codecs?

also, if somebody has downloaded the divx codec, will this ensure playback of xvid compressed videos?

[poisondeathray]

What is the most common codec out there to ensure that users with a standard windows install will not have to install any codecs?

wmv3

also, if somebody has downloaded the divx codec, will this ensure playback of xvid compressed videos?

yes

[anonymous_whatever]

what's the best wmv3 encoder? i found options for encoding in wmv 9, but none for wmv3. is it possible to encode wmv3 in an avi container?

and as an aside... just curious.. answer optional.. what do you do for a living poison?

[poisondeathray]

WMV encoders are basically all the same. The differences are in pre processing and GUI features. You can try WME, or Expression Encoder.

Or ffmpeg, wmnicenc (with avisynth)

"wmv3" is the fourcc code. "wmv9" is the class of windows media codecs, that includes wmv3

You wan't to use, specifically, wmv3. If your program says WMV9, chances are it really means fourcc "WMV3"

Encode a short sample and use mediainfo view=>text, it will say under codecid

Video
ID                               : 2
Format                           : VC-1
Format profile                   : MP@HL
Codec ID                         : WMV3
Codec ID/Info                    : Windows Media Video 9
Codec ID/Hint                    : WMV3
Description of the codec         : Windows Media Video 9

[anonymous_whatever]

ok, i encoded using windows media encoder 9 and according to mediainfo it's wmv3. is there a way to put this file into an avi container?

[poisondeathray]

You can put it into avi, but why ? You are reducing compatibility and not all players will be able to play it. WMV is supposed to be in .wmv container (or more precisely .asf container with .wmv extension)

If you wanted to put it in avi, then you might be able to use ffmpeg to remux it, or encode wmv in avi in the first place (e.g. with vdub and old version of ffdshow which still has wmv encoders)

[El Heggunte]

ok, i encoded using windows media encoder 9 and according to mediainfo it's wmv3. is there a way to put this file into an avi container?

Besides what P.D.R. said, it's not enough to wrap WMV3 in AVI, it's necessary to ensure the WMV3 stream is "VfW-compatible" (i.e., no B-frames and a constant frame rate). There are two approaches: encode in 2 passes with no maximum peak bitrate, or encode with a (low) constant quantizer AND by setting both the "lookahead" and the B-frames to zero. AFAIK, this latter option is available only through an updated command-line VB script, and also requires the "final" WMF 11 Redistributable Package:

http://alexzambelli.com/WMV

Sounds too complicated and seems a P.I.T.A. ? Yes, you are right.

[anonymous_whatever]

i really want a compatible video. why do i never see wmv files *anywhere*?

[jagabo]

Windows XP only shipped with a handful of old, outdated codecs. It did not include Xvid or Divx, MPEG 2, h.264 or any other high quality, high compression codec. Windows media player can automatically download codecs (if there's an internet connection) but it only downloads Microsoft codecs. It also didn't include file reader/splitters for MP4, MKV, OGM, etc.

So if you want out-of-the-box compatibility with the half of the computers in the world that are still running XP you have to use WMV as the container and you have to stick with Microsoft WMV1/2/3 and WMA1/2 codecs among software developers.

Why don't you see a lot of WMV files on all the P2P networks? Because when Divx arrived Microsoft didn't have much of a presence in A/V files (even though the original Divx was based on Microsoft's MPEG 4 codec!). Microsoft also had a habit of suing developers who made WMV tools in those days (ask the author of VirtualDub). So Divx in AVI became very popular amongst the P2P crowd. Even though VC1 (Microsoft's most recent video codec) is roughly in the same league as h.264 (quality-per-bitrate wise) the world has adopted h.264 as the next generation video codec. I think this is mostly out of an anything-but-Microsoft attitude.

[El Heggunte]

i really want a compatible video. why do i never see wmv files *anywhere*?

I still don't know exactly why, but most p0rn videos are distributed as WMV files.

[anonymous_whatever]

Windows XP only shipped with a handful of old, outdated codecs. It did not include Xvid or Divx, MPEG 2, h.264 or any other high quality, high compression codec. Windows media player can automatically download codecs (if there's an internet connection) but it only downloads Microsoft codecs. It also didn't include file reader/splitters for MP4, MKV, OGM, etc.

So if you want out-of-the-box compatibility with the half of the computers in the world that are still running XP you have to use WMV as the container and you have to stick with Microsoft WMV1/2/3 and WMA1/2 codecs among software developers.

Why don't you see a lot of WMV files on all the P2P networks? Because when Divx arrived Microsoft didn't have much of a presence in A/V files (even though the original Divx was based on Microsoft's MPEG 4 codec!). Microsoft also had a habit of suing developers who made WMV tools in those days (ask the author of VirtualDub). So Divx in AVI became very popular amongst the P2P crowd. Even though VC1 (Microsoft's most recent video codec) is roughly in the same league as h.264 (quality-per-bitrate wise) the world has adopted h.264 as the next generation video codec. I think this is mostly out of an anything-but-Microsoft attitude.

poisondeathray mentioned that WMV in an AVI container reduces compatibility. i like the AVI container better because it's more recognisable to people. most people see a WMV file are are like "WTF"? lol. i want wide compatibility, but in an AVI container. can i get the best of both worlds?

[anonymous_whatever]

i really want a compatible video. why do i never see wmv files *anywhere*?

I still don't know exactly why, but most p0rn videos are distributed as WMV files.

hahahaha lol

[jman98]

i really want a compatible video. why do i never see wmv files *anywhere*?

I still don't know exactly why, but most p0rn videos are distributed as WMV files.

The answer is simple - DRM. WMV has one of the more effective (in terms of preventing copying) DRM systems available.

[jman98]

i really want a compatible video. why do i never see wmv files *anywhere*?

What do you mean by "compatible"?

If you mean "Plays on Windows PCs and screw everybody else if they can't play it", then WMV is a good choice. Although I have seen WMV (non-DRMed too) so screwed up that even WMP had problems with it, such is rare.

If you mean "Plays on Windows PCs, Macs and Linux boxes" then WMV is a poor choice. There are add ons to support WMV on those platforms but a lot of Mac users are technologically challenged and don't know anything about that. Mac users - I know that many of you are indeed skilled with technology. I'm talking about people who don't work in IT and "just want a computer that works and is easy to use" and don't participate in the forums here.

You haven't told us anything about the purpose of your project here or how long the videos are or how they will be distributed, but for pure compatibility there's a lot to be said for good old MPEG-1. At sufficiently high bit rates it is capable of excellent quality and even non-Windows systems should be able to handle it as is. It may not necessarily be a good choice for your project but if you are just trying to send a simple 15 minute video to friends and relatives and have it able to be played by dummies without any problems, it could do the job.

[poisondeathray]

poisondeathray mentioned that WMV in an AVI container reduces compatibility. i like the AVI container better because it's more recognisable to people. most people see a WMV file are are like "WTF"? lol. i want wide compatibility, but in an AVI container. can i get the best of both worlds?

But "AVI" can hold 100's of different kinds formats, but xvid/divx would be the most common "AVI" end distribution format for sharing in North America. But "RMVB" is probably more popular in Asia , at least for SD resolutions.

But - your initial request was compatibility "out of the box" for a PC. DivX/Xvid us not compatible "out of the box" on a Windows (or Mac install)

What is your target demographic ? Your average Joe or non techhie people like Grandma won't even know what an "AVI" is or "Divx" is, let alone "WMV". The people that visit this site or video related sites are but a TINY subset of the larger population . And the people that are techie oriented will already know how to play videos of common distribution formats

You can always make suggestions , like use VLC or SMplayer. These have portable USB versions that don't need installing, and they contain decoders for most video formats (Self contained)

[anonymous_whatever]

i really want a compatible video. why do i never see wmv files *anywhere*?

What do you mean by "compatible"?

If you mean "Plays on Windows PCs and screw everybody else if they can't play it", then WMV is a good choice. Although I have seen WMV (non-DRMed too) so screwed up that even WMP had problems with it, such is rare.

If you mean "Plays on Windows PCs, Macs and Linux boxes" then WMV is a poor choice. There are add ons to support WMV on those platforms but a lot of Mac users are technologically challenged and don't know anything about that. Mac users - I know that many of you are indeed skilled with technology. I'm talking about people who don't work in IT and "just want a computer that works and is easy to use" and don't participate in the forums here.

You haven't told us anything about the purpose of your project here or how long the videos are or how they will be distributed, but for pure compatibility there's a lot to be said for good old MPEG-1. At sufficiently high bit rates it is capable of excellent quality and even non-Windows systems should be able to handle it as is. It may not necessarily be a good choice for your project but if you are just trying to send a simple 15 minute video to friends and relatives and have it able to be played by dummies without any problems, it could do the job.

yes... that is exactly a codec i've been looking at. i want general compatibility with no downloading of codecs necessary. i really like xvid, it's great, but i don't want to hassle people with downloading codecs, etc. WMV is a generally unrecognized file format, at least by its extension, so i'm leaning away from it. i want it to play on macs easily as well.

what i'm looking for is "hey random person that knows nothing about computers or codecs or divx or anything of the sort.. here's a video, you can play it. you have a mac? no problem. you have a pc? that's fine. the quality is fine, no problems" i don't want somebody coming to me with questions about windows media player wanting to download codecs, divx or anything of the sort. i just want to give them the video, have them play it with no horrendous quality issues.

for instance, i've heard cinepak by radius wrapped in an avi container is highly compatibile but the quality of the encoded video at almost any reasonable bitrate is horrendous. its sounding like mpeg1 might fit the bill here.

is mpeg1 standard on almost all computers, pcs and macs, and has decent quality at reasonable bitrates?

[poisondeathray]

is mpeg1 standard on almost all computers, pcs and macs, and has decent quality at reasonable bitrates?

Decoder is present , but it's rarely used, because of the low quality issue.

As a rough generalization , on average you'd need 1.5-2x the bitrate for similar quality as xvid (And xvid would need 1.5-2x more than h.264) in a typical bitrate range

[anonymous_whatever]

my target demographic is a non-techie. xvid? amazing codec. h.264? even better. but they require installs and some technical knowledge. i'm just looking to send a file to someone, have them play it and look decent, no installs, downloads, anything of the sort. end of story. i'd prefer it wrapped in an .avi container. does anything like this even exist???

if you look online, and you want to reach a broad mass of people with content, there are standards like flash. i'm looking for the equivalent idea in desktop, offline video. and yes, i realize flash is a download, but it's one everybody has to make at some point. not everybody watches offline videos on their computers and i don't want to hassle them with a download just for a video i send. like really, how is there no standard for this kind of thing?

[poisondeathray]

Sure , go ahead use MPEG1. It's their eyes and both your bandwidth that are suffering.

There are no native AVI codecs in a windows install (win7 is different, they have media foundation, but I'm referring to legacy installs like xp or even win98). Even cinepak needs 3rd party installer

IMO, bundling a tiny portable SMPlayer download (13MB) with h.264 encoded video, beats sending someone a file 3-4x as large. e.g. sending 1GB of data is better than sending 4GB of data . Portable means no screwing around with registry entries or installing - they are self contained

Portable SMPlayer 13MB
https://www.videohelp.com/download/smplayer-portable-0.7.0.7z


Portable VLC, is much larger, like 35MB, but it does many more things
https://www.videohelp.com/download/vlc-2.0.0-win32.zip

[anonymous_whatever]

no native AVI codecs in windows 98/XP at all??

what about media foundation? what's the best codec?

[anonymous_whatever]

i'm almost just condsidering a "Whatever, if it doesn't play, download divx" lol

[poisondeathray]

no native AVI codecs in windows 98/XP at all??

No . That's why WMV3 was suggested

But anything "AVI" or "WMV" is like kryptonite to MACs, but thrive on a PC. (Just like anything "MOV" is great for MAC's but just as bad for PC)

what about media foundation? what's the best codec?

No, this means Win7 comes with a bunch of directshow codecs for playback . This doesn't help you if grandma is on win xp or vista for example

[anonymous_whatever]

argh, if you wanna send a document, use pdf. if you want to send a picture, use jpeg. if you want to send a video, good luck. lol

[jagabo]

I have fresh install of Win98 SR2 and WinXP Pro SP3 in Virtual machines. They have the following VFW codecs: Cinepack, Indeo Video 5.10, Intel 4:2:0 2.50, Intel Indeo Video R3.2, Intel Indeo Video 4.5, Intel IYUV, Microsoft h.261, Microsoft h.263, Microsoft RLE, Microsoft Video 1. An old Win98 SR2 install has these too. These are all very old low quality codecs that nobody would use today. Since both Win98 and XP SP3 have all those codecs I think it's likely that the original XP, SP1 and SP2 also had them.

They both have a DirectShow MPEG 1 file reader/splitter and MPEG 1 decoder. I just played a 640x480 MPEG 1 file on both of them.

[poisondeathray]

Ahhh so it does come with VFW codecs. I totally forgot about Indeo.....My bad, thanks for the correction

I thought cinepack was installed separately. I recall using an installer back in win98

Microsoft h.264

You sure about that one for Win98 ?

[jagabo]

Ahhh so it does come with VFW codecs. I totally forgot about Indeo.....My bad, thanks for the correction

I thought cinepack was installed separately. I recall using an installer back in win98

Maybe it was an earlier Win98 release? I checked Win98 SR2.

Microsoft h.264

You sure about that one for Win98 ?

Sorry, that was a typo. It's h.263. I'll fix it.