DNxHD .mov thumbnails not generating

[Flynn]

Hi there,

So I've begun to transcode files from my Canon T2i/550D into Avid DNxHD .mov for easier editing. I've noticed one problem and it's the fact that thumbnails are not generating in Windows explorer.

As a filmmaker, being able to see the thumbnail lets me see which clip is which (whether outtake or whatnot). Thumbnails for other .mov are generated without a problem, but these ones are missing.

From the searching I've done so far it seems that it's because WMP cannot play these DNxHD encoded files (and they can't, I've tried), so they can't generate appropriate thumbnails. I've downloaded the DNxHD codecs from Avid's website and I used MPEG Streamclip to encode them so surely they are installed. How come WMP won't play/generate thumbnails? WMP can play the other .movs (for example, encoded with Photo JPEG) just fine.

Maybe my understanding of this is wrong, and if it is I apologise. I've tried several 'hacks' already such as adding a registry key, installing Haali Media Splitter, etc. Is there another fix I can try?

Thanks in advance

[poisondeathray]

No, because WMP relies on directshow , and required directshow splitters and decoders, but DNxHD isn't decoded through directshow - it's decoded through quicktime API . AFAIK there is no directshow decoder for DNxHD

[Flynn]

No, because WMP relies on directshow , and required directshow splitters and decoders, but DNxHD isn't decoded through directshow - it's decoded through quicktime API . AFAIK there is no directshow decoder for DNxHD

Thanks for your reply. So does this mean there is no possible way to generate thumbnails for these files?

[poisondeathray]

Not for windows explorer - you would need avid or somebody to come out with a directshow decoder for dnxhd - that would solve everything. But it doesn't exist

You can get thumbnails for DNxHD in other browsing applications e.g. Adobe Bridge ; that's because they don't necessarily rely on directshow

The other mov's display, because when you install quicktime for windows, it installs a bunch of directshow codecs as well

[El Heggunte]

AFAIK there is no directshow decoder for DNxHD

The Properties Tab of LAV Video Decoder does have a checkbox for DNxHD.

BTW, any complaints must be sent to Nevcairiel himself.

P.S.: Video thumbnails in Windows Explorer are a resource hog and also pointless,

don't use them, case solved.

[poisondeathray]

Good to know. Did you test it out ?

[Flynn]

Well I've installed LAV Video, opened the Video Configuration and DNxHD is ticked. Still no thumbnail. I tried opening the directory with the video files in Adobe Bridge, but about 6 thumbs in, Bridge crashes

[poisondeathray]

P.S.: Video thumbnails in Windows Explorer are a resource hog and also pointless,

don't use them, case solved.

Totally agree. Windows thumbnails also cause other problems with crashes and instability. I don't use them
(Which is why I asked you to test out your theory on LAV )


Bridge isn't exactly "light" either but it has many more functions and integrates nicely with Adobe software, it' s not as flaky as windows thumbnails either (although Flynn seems to be having issues)

@Flynn - What version of bridge and dnxhd do you have installed? Some versions of avid caused known incompatibilities in some programs

[Flynn]

P.S.: Video thumbnails in Windows Explorer are a resource hog and also pointless,

don't use them, case solved.

Totally agree. Windows thumbnails also cause other problems with crashes and instability. I don't use them
(Which is why I asked you to test out your theory on LAV )


Bridge isn't exactly "light" either but it has many more functions and integrates nicely with Adobe software, it' s not as flaky as windows thumbnails either (although Flynn seems to be having issues)

@Flynn - What version of bridge and dnxhd do you have installed? Some versions of avid caused known incompatibilities in some programs

DNxHD version 2.3.4
Adobe Bridge CS5

I've never had issues with Windows thumbnails crashing or showing signs of instability before so I assumed they were alright. This is actually my first time working with DNxHD. Previously I used Apple Photo JPEG as my intermediate codec but the general consensus is that DNxHD is the best one so I'm making the switch.

[poisondeathray]

I've never had issues with Windows thumbnails crashing or showing signs of instability before so I assumed they were alright. This is actually my first time working with DNxHD. Previously I used Apple Photo JPEG as my intermediate codec but the general
consensus is that DNxHD is the best one so I'm making the switch.

Consider yourself lucky... just do a quick search, it's the most common complaint by far

I'm using same DNxHD version but no issues with bridge. There was a release like 1.9 or something that had major bugs. I remember having to try out several versions.

There are other alternatives , like proxy workflow, other intermediates (e.g. cineform), but it sound like you've settled with DNxHD

[Flynn]

Consider yourself lucky... just do a quick search, it's the most common complaint by far

I'm using same DNxHD version but no issues with bridge. There was a release like 1.9 or something that had major bugs. I remember having to try out several versions.

There are other alternatives , like proxy workflow, other intermediates (e.g. cineform), but it sound like you've settled with DNxHD

I didn't know what else to do so I just uninstalled then reinstalled DNxHD and Bridge was able to successfully generate all thumbnails without crashing

So it looks like I'll have to use Bridge to sort and preview my footage, I can live with that.

But while we're on the topic of intermediate codecs, what other Windows alternatives are there to DNxHD and how would I go about transcoding to these codecs? As far as I know, Cineform is encoded through Neoscene which is about $130. Any other free intermediates?

[poisondeathray]

But while we're on the topic of intermediate codecs, what other Windows alternatives are there to DNxHD and how would I go about transcoding to these codecs? As far as I know, Cineform is encoded through Neoscene which is about $130. Any other free intermediates?

Your question is only in the context of smoother/easier editing, correct? (there are several other reasons to use intermediates, and choice depends on your workflow/goals)

Go Pro bought out cineform, and there is a free version available. It doesn't come with HDLink (The GUI), or First Light, or other accessories. It comes with directshow and VFW encoders/decoders - so you can access it in vdub or avspmod, or any application that uses VFW encoders
http://gopro.com/3d-cineform-studio-software-download/


Quality is similar at the equivalent bitrate range (there are several quality levels to choose from), but Cineform actually outperforms DNxHD by a fair margin (editing smoothness) at simliar bitrate ranges

One workflow would be to use avisynth batch scripts and batch encode to cineform - it's a bit more involved if you're not already familiar with avisynth or batching

[poisondeathray]

The free gopro/cineform encoder also shows up in adobe media encoder, under microsoft avi (when you select that, all VFW system installed encoders are available), so that might be an easier way for you

It's free, so doesn't hurt to test out a couple files, and see if it meets your requirements

[Flynn]

Your question is only in the context of smoother/easier editing, correct? (there are several other reasons to use intermediates, and choice depends on your workflow/goals)

Go Pro bought out cineform, and there is a free version available. It doesn't come with HDLink (The GUI), or First Light, or other accessories. It comes with directshow and VFW encoders/decoders - so you can access it in vdub or avspmod, or any application that uses VFW encoders
http://gopro.com/3d-cineform-studio-software-download/


Quality is similar at the equivalent bitrate range (there are several quality levels to choose from), but Cineform actually outperforms DNxHD by a fair margin (editing smoothness) at simliar bitrate ranges

One workflow would be to use avisynth batch scripts and batch encode to cineform - it's a bit more involved if you're not already familiar with avisynth or batching

Yup, smoother/easier editing.

I did a couple quick searches to see if anyone has used the free CineForm Studio for DSLR videos and from this Vimeo video, it looks to be a pretty viable option. Seems like you can also to batch conversions without having to use VirtualDub or anything else, which is convenient for me because I am not at all familiar with AviSynth and the more technical tools.

[poisondeathray]

I must have posted right before you - try the AME option - it's easier to use with a GUI that you can queue up a bunch of files

(of course AME isn't free, but you already have premiere installed, so ....)

[poisondeathray]

I did a couple quick searches to see if anyone has used the free CineForm Studio for DSLR videos and from this Vimeo video, it looks to be a pretty viable option. Seems like you can also to batch conversions without having to use VirtualDub or anything else, which is convenient for me because I am not at all familiar with AviSynth and the more technical tools.

Actually that video goes over how to do it in AME as well

[Flynn]

I did a couple quick searches to see if anyone has used the free CineForm Studio for DSLR videos and from this Vimeo video, it looks to be a pretty viable option. Seems like you can also to batch conversions without having to use VirtualDub or anything else, which is convenient for me because I am not at all familiar with AviSynth and the more technical tools.

Actually that video goes over how to do it in AME as well

Ah you're right. I didn't quite watch the entire thing coz I was still going through search results. I just installed CineForm Studio. There's no preset that pops up under Microsoft .AVI but when I open up settings the codec is there - GoPro CineForm Codec (x64) v7.5.5. I just made a new preset - 720p, 23.97 fps, progressive, quality 100 & uncompressed audio.

I just threw all 3 files into AE to see how they look like. The DNxHD encoded file seems to be noticeably washed out. The CineForm one is definitely closer to the original colors. However, I can't seem to open the CineForm encoded files in VLC or WMP. VLC gives me "VLC does not support the audio or video format "CFHD". Unfortunately there is no way for you to fix this."

[poisondeathray]

Beware MOV has high likelihood of gamma shift issues. Even the original camera files. It depends on the decoder used and software interpretation of levels

Cineform will not work in VLC (cineform is proprietary, and VLC is open source and doesn't use system installed directshow decoders and splitters ), - that's normal and expected. But cineform should work in MPC / MPCHC or WMP. Something is misconfigured on your system. Try installing cineform again




A bit off topic here, as your concern was "editability", but:

What "original colors" are is debatable as well. You're viewing it in a RGB space, but the camera files are in Y'CbCr. Many people actually want a washed out, full range conversion if they are doing any grading, to prevent clipping of superbrights/superdarks, then grade appropriately in post . Unless you've shot very flat, by not using the full range conversion, you throw away superbrights that may have been salvagable. (The 7D and T2i definitely record usable information in the 235-255 range, but not in the 0-15 range)

This is one of the other reasons why people transcode, to avoid quicktime decoder (which clamps to 16-235)(other reasons are poor chroma upsampling, noise added). A popular workflow among DSLR users is using 5DtoRGB
http://rarevision.com/5dtorgb/