Can I get better quality captures?

[Aquamarine]

1) For capturing from MiniDV tapes, my current setup is:
Cable going from camcorder's mini A/V jack (yellow) to RCA (red/white/yellow).
Then there's an adapter to accept those RCA and convert to S-Video plug.
My capture device takes in the S-Video but it knows it's only "Video" and not really "S-Video".
It's a USB capture device so I guess USB lowers my quality?

Am I losing quality by capturing this way? My camcorder has firewire output and my laptop has a firewire card. I think I captured this way before, but for some reason I forgot I had that option!

2) I also have HDV tapes so I would look for a HDV camcorder with firewire right? Is that the only good way to avoid losing quality?

3) What about if I'm connecting my other camcorder in the same way and playing Hi-8 or D8 tapes. Would I be losing quality? I don't think that camcorder has firewire, but I believe at least one has the A/V jack. I don't see a way to go from mini A/V jack straight to S-Video?

4) If I hook up a VHS VCR, VHS-C camcorder, or do 8mm tapes I'm pretty sure I'm not losing quality?

Thank you.

[hech54]

Firewire....hands down.

[jagabo]

Using a firewire connection will get you an exact copy of what's on the DV tape. It's basically a digital file transfer.

If you use an s-video cable the digital data on the tapes will be converted to analog (losses), transferred over the wire (losses), re-digitized by the capture device (losses), and compressed again (possible losses depending on the codec). Composite is even worse as the chroma and luma will be multiplexed onto a single wire and can't be fully demultiplexed again at the other end.

For your Hi8 tapes you'll have to determine experimentally which capture method works better. DV camcorder via firewire vs. Hi8 camcorder to USB analog capture device.

[edDV]

Be aware that many NTSC DV (MiniDV or Digital8) camcorders (mostly Sony) will capture analog with improper black level (level 32 instead of 16). This is infamous "whiteout" issue. You will need to apply a filter to correct black level. This isn't an issue for capture from MiniDV or Digital8 tapes. Only from analog inputs.

[Aquamarine]

Thanks all.

I'm still unsure about resolution. VHS, VHS-C, and 8mm can be captured with my RCA/USB setup without losing quality? Hi-8 needs firewire?

Also, this USB capture device implies that I could capture Super-VHS tapes without quality loss. Just one SVideo cable and no RCA involved.

[edDV]

Thanks all.

I'm still unsure about resolution. VHS, VHS-C, and 8mm can be captured with my RCA/USB setup without losing quality?

Any analog to digital capture is lossy. Digital (MiniDV or Digital8) can be copied without loss over Firewire.

Hi-8 needs firewire?

No. Hi8 is analog just like VHS, VHS-C but has resolution equivalent to SVHS.

Explain your issue with resolution.

Also, this USB capture device implies that I could capture Super-VHS tapes without quality loss. Just one SVideo cable and no RCA involved.

Not true. All analog capture is lossy. S-Video cables move luma and chroma on separate wires thus eliminate losses associated with composite capture.

[Aquamarine]

Okay I lose quality when putting it on my computer, but do I lose resolution? I thought I didn't with VHS, 8mm, and maybe one or two other formats. Is there a way to not lose quality (that is reasonable cost)?

[edDV]

Starting over.

1) For capturing from MiniDV tapes, my current setup is:
Cable going from camcorder's mini A/V jack (yellow) to RCA (red/white/yellow).
Then there's an adapter to accept those RCA and convert to S-Video plug.
My capture device takes in the S-Video but it knows it's only "Video" and not really "S-Video".
It's a USB capture device so I guess USB lowers my quality?

First this is not the way to capture DV formats as explained above. DV source can be transferred lossless over Firewire.

Analog VHS/VHS-C/Video8 equipment only provide composite output (yellow RCA). Composite to digital YCbCr digital is a highly lossy process. Composite video first needs Y/C separation which is highly complex. Typical USB capture devices will take short cuts with high loss.

Hi8 and SVHS devices usually have S-Video outputs with luma and chroma on separate wires. This eliminates the need for luma chroma separation so is less lossy.

Then there's an adapter to accept those RCA and convert to S-Video plug.

Nope, not that easy. RCA yellow composite to S-Video is a complex process. A simple "adapter" will ruin your video.

[Aquamarine]

For digital formats I'll do firewire, for everything else, I don't know what to do.

Sounds like this capture device is useless except for videos where quality doesn't matter, but there may not be better that is affordable? For devices with S-Video and composite outputs.

[jagabo]

Your USB capture device may be fine for standard definition analog video capture. It will capture with the same resolution as your DV camcorder -- 720x480. The issue are: how good is the device? How does it compare to using your DV camcorder to capture the same source? How much time and effort are you going to spend capturing, filtering, compressing, etc.?

[Aquamarine]

Oh, so you're saying capturing onto DV camcorder first (then firewire into the computer) may be better. Depending on the device. I figure a good device should be equivalent, but that most are not as good.

For most of the videos, it's no big deal that the digitized version will lose a little quality. (I want to put them on DVD or BD or just store them on a big external HD.) However, I was wanting to destroy most of the source tapes after capturing, because they are taking up too much room in the closet. But I feel bad doing that if I'm capturing in a way that loses quality. Isn't it inevitable to lose quality when it's analog? Only the original can be the original best quality?

[edDV]

What is your USB capture device? These can range from poor to good and you get what you pay for. The main difference is the way composite video is handled.

As for resolution:

VHS/Video8 natively has low pass filter to limit analog resolution to 240 horizontal lines of resolution as measured visually from a test chart. VHS/Video8 chroma allows about 80 color changes over a line. This is different from digital resolution. Horizontal lines of resolution means the frequency point where white to black excursions sum to gray. With a good capture card this means a potential digital raster of about 480 horizontal by 480 vertical. Modern capture devices only support 704x480 digital capture resolution which will preserve most all of the VHS/Video8 resolution. If your device offers a 352x480 setting, that will limit resolution.

SVHS/Hi8 limits luma resolution to about 400 horizontal lines of resolution. The way to preserve that resolution is by use of the S-Video cable. Use the 704 or 720x480 digital capture resolution.

[Aquamarine]

It is the onair solution GT. I read it's supposed to be good. It has a setting for 720x480. It seems to do only MPEG1 or MPEG2, at least in Video mode (where I'm using the red/yellow/white). In S-Video mode maybe it can do a better format.

[edDV]

Oh, so you're saying capturing onto DV camcorder first (then firewire into the computer) may be better. Depending on the device. I figure a good device should be equivalent, but that most are not as good.

For analog source, may be better, maybe not. A DV camcorder is just another analog capture device. If it is a Sony DV camcorder it has a known black level flaw. A DV capture device like a Canopus ADVC eliminates the levels issues common to Sony camcorders but is otherwise similar.

For most of the videos, it's no big deal that the digitized version will lose a little quality. (I want to put them on DVD or BD or just store them on a big external HD.) However, I was wanting to destroy most of the source tapes after capturing, because they are taking up too much room in the closet. But I feel bad doing that if I'm capturing in a way that loses quality. Isn't it inevitable to lose quality when it's analog? Only the original can be the original best quality?

If these are camcorder tapes of your baby or wedding, keep the tapes for future technology. If these are VHS TV captures you won't care about the quality loss since the quality is low to start. SVHS/Hi8 have higher native quality so can benefit from a higher level of capture gear. Quality capture gear can preserve all resolution from SVHS/Hi8.

[edDV]

It is the onair solution GT. I read it's supposed to be good. It has a setting for 720x480. It seems to do only MPEG1 or MPEG2, at least in Video mode (where I'm using the red/yellow/white). In S-Video mode maybe it can do a better format.

Capture directly to MPeg adds loss. If quality is the goal you would get a YCbCr capture card and capture to Huffyuv or Lagarith codecs. Then noise reduce and levels correct, then encode non-real time.

Never use Yellow composite if S-Video is available from the device.

Never use a composite to S-Video adapter on the input side.