So what's a basic Tivo (read: DVD recorder with built-in Hard Drive) cost?

[snafubaby]

I want to invest in one. How much are the basic units these days? What's a good one? Not necessarily the best one, but a good one? Thanks!

[edDV]

I want to invest in one. How much are the basic units these days? What's a good one? Not necessarily the best one, but a good one? Thanks!

In the USA we are down to various Magnavox (a Philips company) models that come and go from Walmart shelves. Price is under $200. Most models are tunerless and designed for use with a cable box. Channel switching is by IR blaster. Models with ATSC/NTSC tuner seem to have vanished.

[snafubaby]

Thanks for the quick reply. So even the ones i found online at Fry's electronics for $99.95 are tunerless, and only work with a cable box? If i were to copy some DVD's to it, would it work? I found a few DVD recorders with built-in hard drive, on a few websites, but they want an arm and a leg for them - over $300.00. I shoulda bought one back in 2004, when i bought my first set-top DVD recorder.

[edDV]

Thanks for the quick reply. So even the ones i found online at Fry's electronics for $99.95 are tunerless, and only work with a cable box? If i were to copy some DVD's to it, would it work? I found a few DVD recorders with built-in hard drive, on a few websites, but they want an arm and a leg for them - over $300.00. I shoulda bought one back in 2004, when i bought my first set-top DVD recorder.

Can you give me a link to the Fry's model? $99 seems low for one with a hard drive.

Hard drive prices have doubled in the past couple of weeks due to Thailand floods.

[snafubaby]

Sorry for not being clear. The one at fry's is a Tivo. I don't know if there really is a difference between a Tivo, and a DVD recorder with a built-in HDD. Anyway, here is the link.

http://www.frys.com/product/6219910?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

[edDV]

I'm not current on Tivo models. There is a monthly fee.

Walmart online has a Magnavox w/tuner and 500 GB disc $248
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=DVD+Recorder&ic=16_0&Find=Find...h_constraint=0

[snafubaby]

Wow! That's a better model than the Tivo! Thank you for the link. I will have to buy that one. Or the 320gb model. I don't need 500gb of space, but then again, for a little bit more money, i get 180 more GB.

Thanks again!

[edDV]

The 320 GB model lacks a tuner.

[jjeff]

Both have a digital tuner, the more expensive one just has a larger HDD and improved features.
Another option(if you can live without a tuner) is a international Panasonic which starts ~$260 for a floor model(if available) or a new one(250GB) ~$350. The internationals are available at grey market dealers like B&H Photo or J&R both out of NY. World Import out of MI also sells internationals.
Note only a Tivo or DVR(without a DVD burner) will be HD, any DVDR(with burner) will be SD only.

[usually_quiet]

Another important difference between an HDD DVD recorder and TiVo is that a TiVo has two tuners and can use a CableCARD to tune and record encrypted digital cable channels that are in your plan, plus you can watch one channel and record another. A DVD recorder must be connected to a cablebox to record encrypted digital channels and can only record the channel to which the cablebox is tuned. Like most DVD recorders, the international Panasonic HDD DVD recorders and Magnavox HDD recorders do not have an IR blaster to change channels on a set-top box, so you must do that manually.

You will have to weigh the convenience of a TiVo against the additional costs for having one, since they cannot be used without a paid-up TiVo subscription. Also, your cable provider may charge a small monthly fee (usually under $5) for a CableCARD, although sometimes they provide one for free.

[orsetto]

snafubaby, before laying any money down you should be absolutely sure you know what the heck it is you are buying. Your initial question was a bit vague, and it isn't clear (to me anyway) if you've pieced together the info others have provided? A TiVO is not a DVD/HDD recorder: they are two entirely separate and distinct products. This has been mentioned in earlier replies, but I'm not sure if you picked up on the details. At the risk of being repetitive, here's my take on your options:

A TiVO does not have a built-in DVD burner, so it cannot easily make permanent library copies of recorded TV videos. It cannot record from a VCR to make digital copies of old tapes. However, TiVO does have a very versatile network connection that allows simple transfer of video files to your PC, which you can then use to make a hard drive media library of files or burn DVD/AVCHD or BluRay discs. The TiVO $99 or $199 advertised prices are basically a "down payment" for the hardware: the unit will not work at all until you sign up for a guide subscription at $19.95/ month. This gets you the feature-rich TiVO one-click program/timer guide, the number one thing people buy a TiVO for in the first place. If you don't want to pay $19.95/month indefinitely, you can purchase a one-time, lumps-sum "lifetime" plan for about $500, bringing your total upfront cost to $600-700. The TiVO integrates completely with cable TV service: it automatically changes channels on your decoder box for timer recordings, or you can ask your cableco to install a miniature "cablecard" decoder inside the TiVO itself (they will charge you $3/mo for the cablecard, but it allows recording one channels while watching another + other cool options). Finally, the TiVO records in full HDTV quality, which matches the resolution of todays large flat-screen TV displays.

A DVD/HDD recorder is used primarily to make DVD copies of shows/movies for your permanent library- period. There is no other point to it at all whatsoever in today's market, which is why they have all disappeared except for the very excellent Magnavox 513 and 515. If you do NOT rely on cable, but get excellent off-air antenna reception, the Magnavox becomes much more usable because it can tune off-air channels in true 16:9 widescreen: not real HDTV quality, but close enough to be quite watchable. When used with cable or satellite service, the Magnavox is a big PITA. Most channels are now scrambled or moved constantly by the cableco, and the Mgnavox cannot cope with this: if you use its internal tuner for cable, it won't record 16:9 from many channels, it will constantly "lose" some channels, and others it may not pick up at all (because they're scrambled). Using a decoder box solves most of these problems, but causes another: the Magnavox has no way to change channels on the box, so you need to set the box timer as well as the Magnavox timer for unattended recording. If your box does not have a timer to change channels, someone will need to be home to do that manually. The Magnavox does not have any sort of informative timer guide: its has the same generic clock timer as a 1995 VHS vcr: fine if you're used to that sort of thing, but scary if you've grown dependent on pressing the "guide" button of your cable/satellite remote.

The advantages of the Magnavox are low cost (as little as $169) and the built-in DVD burner, which lets you edit out commercials before burning a nice DVD for your collection (and of course it doubles as a DVD player). The DVD burning ability is highly prized by those of us who still enjoy self-recorded video libraries, or who transfer our old VHS tapes to DVD. If you have no interest in making lots of DVDs the Magnavox isn't worth bothering with unless A) you absolutely cannot afford a TiVO and/or B) you use an off-air antenna instead of cable/satellite service. Because DVDs are not High Definition, the Magnavox does not record in High Definition, so anything you record or view thru it will be standard def. Again, for off-air this is OK because its off-air tuner generates a very clear 16:9 signal that almost passes for HDTV. With cable/satellite, video quality declines noticeably: if you have these services, don't need to make DVDs but can't afford a TiVO, just sign up for the cable/sat monthly PVR charge: you'll get HDTV quality + most of the TiVO features without the upfront cost and at half the TiVO monthly fee.

Note to those considering a Magnavox: the mfr has cryptically announced it will not be offering these machines after April 2012. Whether this means they will be replaced with BD/HDD models, or just disappear altogether, is unknown. Sales have not been encouraging so my guess is it will simply leave the USA/Canada market like all the previous DVD/HDD brands did back in 2006. If you want a Magnavox, or even think you might want one, now would be the time to buy it.

[TBoneit]

One other thing to remember with the Magnavox is there is no guide you need to know what to record and you have to create manual timers.

Having said that the 515 model in addition to a larger hard drive also has the ability to title a timer before it records so it is easier after it records to find it and a better IMHO remote.

I use it with Basic cable to catch overflow on the local HD channels. My main DVR is a satellite box the Magnavox is for when three things are on at the same time.

I have some recurring timers set that record every week with no problem. I find the quality of the SD recordings it makes from the HD channels to be as good as a commercial DVD. I press one button on my TV sets remote and I have a 16:9 Aspect ratio of my recordings that are not distorted. The Magnavox records them with black bars on the sides and pressing that button stretches the sides to fill the screen. Doing that circles are round and not distorted

I use the 30 second forward skip button to get through commercials quick and a 5 second reverse skip if I overshoot. Those settings are adjustable too.

[handyguy]

Magnavox records HD but only as SD or so I read. If you want just use your computer, byopvr.com, or LiquidTV, it comes with a year TIVO on your computer but you have to get it at Ebay.

[TBoneit]

Magnavox records HD but only as SD or so I read. If you want just use your computer, byopvr.com, or LiquidTV, it comes with a year TIVO on your computer but you have to get it at Ebay.

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That is OK if you want to watch via your computer. I prefer to lean back in the recliner with a remote to control everything, Logitech Harmony.

Not to mention I turn off the computer most of the time. I'm not Green as such I just would rather pay for the electric the Magnavox uses compared to the computer.

[usually_quiet]

Magnavox records HD but only as SD or so I read. If you want just use your computer, byopvr.com, or LiquidTV, it comes with a year TIVO on your computer but you have to get it at Ebay.

Recommending byopvr.com is a disservice to beginners looking for help building an HTPC. Their articles on building HTPCs were current perhaps 5 years ago but are now so out of date it isn't even funny. The only thing they have that is of any use today is their forum.

Liquid TV was discontinued two years ago. Plus, it can't really allow a PC to replace a TiVo if someone has digital cable service. Only a CableCARD PC tuner can provide the same kind of access that is possible with a TiVo, and liquid TV does not support them. The only PVR software that can be used with CableCARD PC tuners is Windows 7's Media Center, plus Vista's Media Center (but only for certified pre-built Media Center PCs, in the case of Vista).