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  1. Banned
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    Jagabo, I was surprised to find that DeFlick had a good effect on some of that left-hand junk. There's such a flood of temporal noise in this clip, it often fills the whole frame -- when that happens, is it possible that such a flood of smudgy junk looks like"flicker" to Deflick (???) for a frame or two? Whatever. But, no, it's not the flicker that antiflicker filters are built for, and Deflick certainly didn't fix the whole frame.

    Holygamer: heavy grain, streaks, smudges, etc., dance around rapidly in a moving image. But that's not flicker.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:48.
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    Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    I was just looking for a fast script to remove the flicker without causing motion trails but everyone has contributed massive scripts for stuff that I don't want! The original script Sanlyn posted removes the flicker without causing motion trails and it does a lot more but I still don't know what part of it I need to just remove the flicker without causing motion trails!
    What script are you using? The script and the attached .zip file I posted yesterday in post #63 is exactly what I used for the posted MPEG.

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/341188-Still-have-flicker-after-Denoising-with-AviS...=1#post2125290

    There's no missing element in the script. It uses ColorYUV, chubbyrain2, FixChromaBleeding, Deflick, and Neat Video, in that order. You apparently don't have Neat Video on your system. The script won't run without it. That's why I've been looking for a replacement that uses spatial/temporal filters with motion compensation and works in YCbCr. That's what Neat Video does. The script does a lot of work and runs for about 20 minutes.

    IF you don't have Neat Video or the filter setting files, don't you get errors when you run that script?
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:49.
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    Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    I was just looking for a fast script to remove the flicker without causing motion trails but everyone has contributed massive scripts for stuff that I don't want! The original script Sanlyn posted removes the flicker without causing motion trails and it does a lot more but I still don't know what part of it I need to just remove the flicker without causing motion trails!
    Yes, holygamer, it does get frustrating when you first get into video work. And after you've been in it a while, as well. First, though, you say the script did everything you wanted (and more), then you ask "what part of it" does what you wanted. You have a damaged tape, bad dupes, a tsunami of noise, but the script fixed almost all of it without too many side effects. That's the point: you have the filters and a script that accomplished what you wanted.

    If you mean you want a one-line command that says something like "fix this()" and runs in 10 seconds, it doesn't exist. The scripts you've been looking at aren't massive (MCTemporalDenoise is a bit long, and it can literally run for days). I'd suggest it takes time and some patience to find your way around video problems, as with any project. You might try submitting a troubled video to a restoral shop and see how it goes. But with many of those shops (not all), you might be disappointed.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:49.
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  4. Jagabo, you're correct. Sorry about before, I was just frustrated.

    Sanlyn, your script works fine. It's just that it takes way too long. I'll propably use it on a rainy day when I've got time to spare but right now I've got to get my videos done before Christmas.

    On my other videos which are about 4.2 Mbps, I used the below script but found that I get blocking which doesn't appear in the video until it is processed into an M2V by HC Encoder. I increased the bitrate to the maximum allowed in the DVD spec of 9.8 Mbps and that got rid of it. However I tried 9.5 Mbps and there was still some blocking. So I'm concerned that my videos which have a lower bitrate than 4.2 Mbps might still have blocking when processed into a 9.8 Mbps video.

    If I process the video again with CPU=6 that removes the blocking but I obviously don't want to process the file again as you lose quality. Is there any decent fast Deblocker I could use which actually does what it's supposed to do?

    I also tried saving my video as M2TS h264 and that gets rid of all the blocking, even the fine blocks and it looks brialliant. DeBlock is supposed to use the deblocking filter of h264 but that doesn't seem to be true as I still have blocking after using it!

    ttempsmoothF(maxr=3, lthresh=8, cthresh=5, strength=4, interlaced=true)


    Last edited by VideoFanatic; 6th Dec 2011 at 15:46.
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    Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    Sanlyn, your script works fine. It's just that it takes way too long. I'll propably use it on a rainy day when I've got time to spare but right now I've got to get my videos done before Christmas.
    There aren't any "fast" filters for video that has problems as severe as this one. I've worked with worse, but it's still kinda messy.

    Can't answer for HC encoder, I don't use it. But I know it's competent stuff. Other members are more familiar with it.

    I've used several deblockers. Most are designed for anime. They're all slow.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:49.
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  6. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Jagabo, I was surprised to find that DeFlick had a good effect on some of that left-hand junk.
    Yes, Donald Graft's Deflicker filter for VirtualDub includes a temporal smoother in addition to the deflicker function. Just as with any temporal smoother you will get motion artifacts if you turn it up too high.
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    I'll try playing with DeFlick's settings. Yours were good tips in this thread on the settings, I always had trouble with it before.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:49.
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    Slow filters: I set them up before beddy-bye and let them run overnight. Works wonders.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:49.
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  9. You said you don't use HC Encoder. Just wondering what you use instead?
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  10. Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    On my other videos which are about 4.2 Mbps, I used the below script but found that I get blocking which doesn't appear in the video until it is processed into an M2V by HC Encoder. I increased the bitrate to the maximum allowed in the DVD spec of 9.8 Mbps and that got rid of it. However I tried 9.5 Mbps and there was still some blocking.
    I find it hard to believe you could see a significant difference in blocking between 9.8 and 9.5 Mb/s encodings. And minor blocking isn't noticeable at normal playback speeds. All DVDs have a bit of it.

    Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    So I'm concerned that my videos which have a lower bitrate than 4.2 Mbps might still have blocking when processed into a 9.8 Mbps video.
    The bitrate of the original recording doesn't directly influence the amount bitrate you will need after filtering. What matters is how much noise, motion, flicker, etc. exists after filtering.

    Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    Is there any decent fast Deblocker I could use which actually does what it's supposed to do?
    I don't understand this question. MSU Deblocking does what it's supposed to do. Mpeg2Source's deblocker does what it's supposed to do. Deblock() does what it's supposed to do. Deblock_qed() does what it's supposed to do. A deblocking filter can only have an effect on the video fed into it. It cannot have any affect on blocking artifacts created by later encoding with too little bitrate.

    Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    I also tried saving my video as M2TS h264 and that gets rid of all the blocking, even the fine blocks and it looks brialliant.
    h.264 has deblocking built into the decoder. MPEG 2 does not (Mpeg2Source being an exception).
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  11. What I'm saying is that I feed the same video into M2TS h264 that I feed into an MPEG 2 with DeBlock. H264 removes the blocking without making the picture look horrible but DeBlock does not remove the blocking unless I use strong settings but then it makes the picture look horrible. DeBlock is supposed to use the deblocking filter of h264 yet it doesn't seem to have the same effect as encoding the video in H264.
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    Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    You said you don't use HC Encoder. Just wondering what you use instead?
    TMPGenc Plus 2.5 most of the time (strictly for SD), has great color correction filters. Or sometimes, CCE. Inevitably, I have to move on to HD soon. But every year, all the Christmas projects keep slowing me down.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:50.
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  13. Originally Posted by holygamer View Post
    What I'm saying is that I feed the same video into M2TS h264 that I feed into an MPEG 2 with DeBlock. H264 removes the blocking without making the picture look horrible but DeBlock does not remove the blocking unless I use strong settings but then it makes the picture look horrible. DeBlock is supposed to use the deblocking filter of h264 yet it doesn't seem to have the same effect as encoding the video in H264.
    When x264 is deblocking it knows what quantizer was used for each block. So it has a much better idea of what is a block and what isn't. When the deblocking code is implemented as a standalone filter it doesn't have that information so it doesn't work as well.
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  14. I used Hc-enc for the encoding i made holygamer. You should see the thread here i made about hc enc.
    *** DIGITIZING VHS / ANALOG VIDEOS SINCE 2001**** GEAR: JVC HR-S7700MS, TOSHIBA V733EF AND MORE
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    I have a question about deflicker: How do you remove the sudden "flash" in scene changes? It's a great filter, but this is the only thing that keeps me from really using it.
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  16. Use a lower scene change threshold.
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    what number would completely eliminate it, and would it affect the filtering
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    dumb question: of COURSE it would affect the filtering. What I meant was, HOW would completely eliminating it affect the filtering?
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  19. What scene change threshold you use will depend how much the video flickers. Try values from about 5 to 20. Deflickering will still work on the rest of the video. If you lower the scene change threshold too much flicker will start to look like scene changes and deflickering will become ineffective.
    Last edited by jagabo; 8th Dec 2011 at 10:28.
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    Got it. I'll toy around with this when I get home. Thanks. Oh one more thing, Denoise (by the "fIsh") is based on deflicker. It seems to work well in conjunction with Neat Video (settings between 6-9 work best). Another good denoiser is NDR (by Sergey) - also called Suppressor of the Noise. Works well with Neat video as well. The thing with Neat, as Sanlyn stated previously, is that it NEEDS to work with another denoiser. It's temporal settings are weak and allow artifacts to slip through. The chroma smoothing is excellent though, if used at the right settings and if a proper profile is built.
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    I've cleaned up many temporal problems (certainly not everything, of course) with Neat Video's temporal filter, but it's nearly useless with flickering objects. Doesn't do anything for spots, either. But it's not designed for that. As unclescoob states, NV does work "better" overall in conjunction with other AviSynth filters. Depends on what you're trying to fix, and lots of fiddling required -- but, then, when is it not required, regardless of the filters(s) used.?
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:50.
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    Sanlyn, let me get this straight, and if I'm right...it's a HUGE coincidence because I've been discovering the same thing lately:

    What you're saying is that first you do some "prepping" (as I call it) in Avisynth with heavy flickered/grainy video before sending it to Virtualdub and adding NeatVideo? Before I get into details, let me know if I'm assuming correct. I'll be back to the thread late tonight. This is very interesting. If this is the case, we definitely need to talk.
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    I can't add any more to that process than describe it in general terms. There's much experimentation, and it depends on the kind of noise. Neat Video has no problem with grain (in fact you have to cut NV down a bit or it will over-clean), but mostly I use a motion-compensated plugin or a deflicker or de-spotter. I don't know many AviSynth degrainers that won't overly soften the whole image. That's about all I can describe. I keep tweaking the plugins, and if they don't clean up 100% I add NeatVideo (not always). Sometimes, NV is all I need. It depends on what I'm trying to clean. And it's not 100% sure-fire.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:50.
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  24. Neat Video isn't designed for spot or flicker removal. You will need to remove those separately.
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    That's correct.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:50.
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    Ok, so for example (and yes, I'm going to post a sample, but it's late now so perhaps tomorrow) I have this particular episode with HEAVY flickering in some scenes due to a substantial amount of noise.

    So what I did was first load it into avisynth and use the Temporal Cleaner at reasonable settings in order to suppress some of that stuff (but not get rid of the noise entirely). I then saved it as an .avs file. I then loaded the new "cleaned" file into Virtualdub and loaded Neat. I then built a new noise profile based on the "cleaned" video, ran Neat Video and saved the AVI as a new file. I do it this way because loading NV into avisynth seems like an obnoxious chore. And anyway, you have faster control over Neat in V-dub, where the GUI settings are there. In any event, the video came out pretty decent. I still have to do some tweaking.

    Sanlyn, is this an example of what you do?
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    And here's another question: There are currently three Virtualdub filters that work great in conjunction with Neat: Temporal Cleaner, Suppressor of the Noise (Sergey), and Denoise (by the fIsh). Is it better to first filter with one of these, save the AVI and reload it into Virtualdub with NeatVideo, or can one of them be used with Neat in a filter chain? I figure if I go with the first option, it would avoid ghosting
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    Isn't the Neat Video temporal filter a pretty dumb frame blend?

    i.e. no motion compensation, no intelligence, and only basic conditionality? Basically equivalent to AVIsynth's temporalsoften()?

    MVDegrainMulti for general noise - as used in the film restoration script - is usually far better.

    btw, RemoveDirtMC (also as used in the film restoration script!) is near-magic for single frame junk.

    Cheers,
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    Originally Posted by unclescoob View Post
    So what I did was first load it into avisynth and use the Temporal Cleaner at reasonable settings in order to suppress some of that stuff (but not get rid of the noise entirely). I then saved it as an .avs file. I then loaded the new "cleaned" file into Virtualdub and loaded Neat. I then built a new noise profile based on the "cleaned" video, ran Neat Video and saved the AVI as a new file. I do it this way because loading NV into avisynth seems like an obnoxious chore. And anyway, you have faster control over Neat in V-dub, where the GUI settings are there. In any event, the video came out pretty decent. I still have to do some tweaking.

    Sanlyn, is this an example of what you do?
    Yes.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:50.
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    Originally Posted by unclescoob View Post
    And here's another question: There are currently three Virtualdub filters that work great in conjunction with Neat: Temporal Cleaner, Suppressor of the Noise (Sergey), and Denoise (by the fIsh). Is it better to first filter with one of these, save the AVI and reload it into Virtualdub with NeatVideo, or can one of them be used with Neat in a filter chain? I figure if I go with the first option, it would avoid ghosting
    I find that if used in VirtualDub with other denoisers, NV isn't as effective. Their user guide barely touches on this, but IMO all VDub denoisers are unpredictable when chained with other VDub filters. NV's manual cautions that NeatVideo should be used alone as far as chaining in VDub goes. Maybe it has to do with the way VDub feeds frames to filters for processing (? Ye olde source code sorcerers might have the answer to that). One example is when I load the built-in temporal smoother with VDub in the same chain. It clears up a lot of horrible noise, but -- really -- so much fine detail has been smoothed that the image looks foggy.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 07:50.
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