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  1. Member
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    I purchased a Panasonic DVC80 camera from B&H back in 2003 for shooting standard def. DVDs. Love the camera, worked well, still works well! However, we're no longer going to produce DVDs and instead move to an online format. Everything is HD now, so I need to purchase an HD camera. I've looked at some of the consumer level cams tests on youtube, vimeo, and am stunned by the clarity of these things! Do I really need a prosumer HD camera when the consumer cams quality looks so spectacular? For example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obu8R4DTON8
    that's a test of the Sony HDR-CX700

    vs a $2k Canon XA10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3lPS9Lynv0

    I look at the quality (on youtube nonetheless) of that sony cam for $1k and wonder how it could get any better to the human eye. Youtube compresses the heck out of videos and it's still crystal clear.

    The main thing I liked about the DVC80 were the XLR inputs right on the camera... But I know they make add on devices that allow you to have XLR inputs like Beachtek, etc.

    The main use of the new camera will be talking head videos, in a controlled environment (lighting).. From all the test videos I'm seeing, I don't see the need to go 3CCD prosumer again, unless there's something I've missed?
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  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdsumike619 View Post
    I purchased a Panasonic DVC80 camera from B&H back in 2003 for shooting standard def. DVDs. Love the camera, worked well, still works well! However, we're no longer going to produce DVDs and instead move to an online format. Everything is HD now, so I need to purchase an HD camera. I've looked at some of the consumer level cams tests on youtube, vimeo, and am stunned by the clarity of these things! Do I really need a prosumer HD camera when the consumer cams quality looks so spectacular? For example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obu8R4DTON8
    that's a test of the Sony HDR-CX700

    vs a $2k Canon XA10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3lPS9Lynv0

    I look at the quality (on youtube nonetheless) of that sony cam for $1k and wonder how it could get any better to the human eye. Youtube compresses the heck out of videos and it's still crystal clear.

    The main thing I liked about the DVC80 were the XLR inputs right on the camera... But I know they make add on devices that allow you to have XLR inputs like Beachtek, etc.

    The main use of the new camera will be talking head videos, in a controlled environment (lighting).. From all the test videos I'm seeing, I don't see the need to go 3CCD prosumer again, unless there's something I've missed?
    The main issue getting a Beachtek to work is the cam must have a stereo external mic jack and manual audio level controls. Most consumer camcorders lack the latter and are always AGC pumping. The Panasonic TM900 or Canon G10 are good choices. So is the older HDV format Canon HV40 for reasons stated here (posts #9 and 10)
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/340972-Canon-VIXIA-HF-M40-Question?p=2122379#post2122379
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    Thanks for the reply! Yes, I'm familiar with the need for external mic jacks and manual audio level controls. My main concern was about the picture quality. That Canon HV40 is only $600 at B&H. The sensor in this one is bigger 1/2.7" than the G10 1/3", doesn't that make it have a better quality picture? Why is it so much less $$
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  4. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdsumike619 View Post
    Thanks for the reply! Yes, I'm familiar with the need for external mic jacks and manual audio level controls. My main concern was about the picture quality. That Canon HV40 is only $600 at B&H. The sensor in this one is bigger 1/2.7" than the G10 1/3", doesn't that make it have a better quality picture? Why is it so much less $$
    The HV40 is previous generation when sensors were designed for both video and still shooting. This resulted in smaller Bayer pixels and this in turn affected low light performance. The G10 uses a video only design were there are fewer but larger Bayer pixels. This improves low light performance and overall signal to noise. The G10 has a better picture but that won't make a huge difference for Youtube or Vimeo. It will be obvious on a large screen HDTV. Make sure your computer can handle AVCHD.

    Why is it so much less $$
    When it came out, the HV40 was priced around $1200. It is now in its third year and has become a prosumer cult model that has survived.
    Last edited by edDV; 22nd Nov 2011 at 21:08.
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    I suppose it can? It's an Intel Core i7 system..
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  6. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdsumike619 View Post
    I suppose it can? It's an Intel Core i7 system..
    That should do. The most efficient AVCHD software is Grass Valley Edius.
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    Wow, I'd never even known about Edius, or that another NLE even existed besides Premiere, Vegas, Final Cut.. How does that compare to Vegas? I think the G10 looks like the best way to go from everything I've read!
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  8. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Edius is targeted to advanced HD users and current claim to fame is efficient AVCHD processing with multi-Core Sandbridge Intel CPUs.

    Since I don't yet have Vegas Pro 11 or Edius, I can't do a compare.

    I need to go work for a magazine to get free press demos.
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    Is it better, or no difference to go with a consumer level camera Canon VIXIA HF G10 with an external XLR adapter, or to go with the prosumer Canon XA10 that already has the XLR adapter built in?
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  10. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Read here... I will too in time. Let me know what you find or conclude.
    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=15&gs_id=3v&xhr=t&q=Canon+XA10+vs+G10&pf=p&sclient=psy...w=1063&bih=810
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    Hmm, this might be a deal breaker for that XA10 camera:

    Specs say that it records audio in "2-Channel, Dolby Digital (AC-3)" Isn't it better to record in uncompressed PCM??
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  12. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdsumike619 View Post
    Hmm, this might be a deal breaker for that XA10 camera:

    Specs say that it records audio in "2-Channel, Dolby Digital (AC-3)" Isn't it better to record in uncompressed PCM??
    AVCHD uses AC3 audio to allow more bit rate to go to video.

    Some prosummer AVCCAM (Panasonic) or NXCAM (Sony) models offer a choice of PCM Stereo or AC3. The extra bit rate of PCM is additive so it takes 24 Mb/s up to 25+ Mb/s.

    At the AVCCAM/NXCAM level the AVCHD video codec is the same but you can move up to pro camera features like 3x CCD sensors and better lenses.
    Last edited by edDV; 24th Nov 2011 at 17:44.
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    This one is starting to look pretty good, and I'm used to Panasonic already: AG-HMC80
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/709719-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC80_AG_HMC80_3MOS_AVCCAM_HD.html
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  14. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdsumike619 View Post
    This one is starting to look pretty good, and I'm used to Panasonic already: AG-HMC80
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/709719-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC80_AG_HMC80_3MOS_AVCCAM_HD.html
    Nice that it does 720p/60 @ 24 Mbps.
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    If you're going to shoot HD, why would you choose to shoot 720 instead of 1080?
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  16. Originally Posted by sdsumike619 View Post
    If you're going to shoot HD, why would you choose to shoot 720 instead of 1080?
    Nowadays, because its lower bit rate and easier to edit on slower computers. It used to be because it was progressive (vs 1080i), but now that cameras with native 1080p shooting are becoming common, its become a moot point.
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  17. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdsumike619 View Post
    If you're going to shoot HD, why would you choose to shoot 720 instead of 1080?
    It becomes a resolution vs. bit rate issue.

    1080p resolution with compression artifacts or 720p with less.

    This needs to be judged after editing and final encoding.
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