proprietary codec used by Sharp for MPEG2

[ghostma]

Dear all,
I bought a TV from Sharp (model LC-19LE510E) that has the capability (as many other TV) to record TV programs on an extern USB drive.
The file should be in the format MPEG 2 (MPEG 4 for HD) and they are saved as file ".ts" on the drive.

Problem is that I cannot view these files using a PC.

I have already made different tries with VLC player, KMP player, HDTV_pump_filter + Window Media Player 11, Win DVD, Classic Media Player, GSPOT Utility, but all of them are not recognizing the file format.

Do you know if there are specific codec\filters to be used or if there is a way to understand which format these files are?

Many thanks in advance

[bat999]

if there is a way to understand which format these files are?

Hi
Try MediaInfo, or post a short sample.

[jman98]

Most likely the files are encrypted and you will not be able to do anything with them except play them directly via the TV. Hollywood makes device manufacturers do this, even for devices sold outside of the US and Canada, because they don't want you to record their shows on a device that can be attached to a PC and potentially get around any copy restrictions that may exist on the shows. In the USA shows can be broadcast with a "do not allow any copies" flag and they want devices to respect it.

[ghostma]

Here is an example.
The file is called ".ts" and it should be MPEG-2 Trasport Stream according to the Mnaula they gave me.

BUT I did not find any player that was able to open or to recognize it.

If you find a codec I will be very happy

Thanks in advance

[ghostma]

Perhaps you are right, but the manual provided by Sharp is NOT telling that are protected, it says on the contrary that you can copy on your PC but it warns that it is not sure that multimedia player will be able to read it, in that case the manul says "it is needed to install on the PC a proper media player".

So the message is very misleading, as it seems they suggest to use the PC

[usually_quiet]

I cannot determine if the recordings made by your TV are intended to be playable using a PC. Since the only Italian words I understand are related to cooking, I took a look at the UK owners manual. It did not have instructions for using a PC to watch files the TV has recorded on a USB drive. The UK manual only has instructions for watching those files using the TV.

MediaInfo can recognize many different codecs. When I opened your file using MediaInfo, it did not report any information except the size of your file. If the TV can play your file, this means the recording is probably encrypted.

If you do not think that is true, then maybe you can email Sharp customer support and ask them which media player software and codecs are needed to play your TV's recordings. If they can give you an answer, then post it here so someone else looking for the same information can benefit from your experience.

[aedipuss]

HDTVtoMPEG2 and other tools can't open it, doesn't seem to be fixable.

[jman98]

Perhaps you are right, but the manual provided by Sharp is NOT telling that are protected, it says on the contrary that you can copy on your PC but it warns that it is not sure that multimedia player will be able to read it, in that case the manul says "it is needed to install on the PC a proper media player".

So the message is very misleading, as it seems they suggest to use the PC

The fact that the manual does not say that the recordings are protected is no way proof that they are not protected.

The fact that the manual says that you "can copy" the recordings to your PC may be a mistake or they may simply mean that you can copy them to a PC, but not that you can actually do anything useful with the copy. Again, for these recordings to not be copy protected would be VERY unusual.

Remember - the home electronics industry has for years deliberately mislead consumers. One of the more infamous recent deceptions was to tell consumers that their HDTVs were "1080p" compatible. Almost everybody misunderstood that. Many customers thought it meant "plays 1080p natively as 1080p" when in fact it means "plays 1080p video at this TV's native 720p resolution". We got a lot of posts here from consumers who were very unhappy to find out that their "1080p compatible" HDTVs were in fact 720p TVs and not 1080p TVs at all. So yes, it's certainly possible that you have been mislead either deliberately or by accident by Sharp.

[jagabo]

It's also possible the files are encrypted or not depending on the source. So over-the-air broadcast signals may not be encrypted, whereas digital satellite and cable channels might be encypted.

The file looks encrypted to me. Even programs like Ts Packet Editor can't see anything in it.

[Farscape1]

it sounds like the file has the "copy-once" flag. trying to open it on anything than the device it was recorded on is not probable.

in the US, CBS (at least my local affiliate WBZ) uses the "copy-freely" flag while my local ch 38 uses the "copy-once" (which really angers me).

[ghostma]

Thanks folk
I called the Sharp support in Italy, they told me that the "feature" the TV is aimed to provide is to let the user be able to make a back-up copy on the PC, or to store the files to view again them in the future through the TV.
They do not certify the fact that the recording can be view on a PC.

BUT I argue that the manual is really misleading, because it says:
"Recorded programmes are saved into the connected USB disk in .TS format (MPEG-2 transport stream).
If desirable, you can back up / copy these saved recordings into a personal computer."

-> OK this is the feature they mentioned, but the manual immediately after says the following:

"Note: It is possible that recorded broadcasts in .TS format may not be supported by your media playback software.
In such a case, you should install an appropriate media playback software to your computer."

So they are not warning that the filed are encripted BUT on the contrary their message is clear, "you should install an appropriate software to your computer" to playback the files.

I bought the TV just for this feature and I did NOT like to found out it is not available, so I wrote a letter of complain.

Anyway I continue thinking there should be a codec somewhere to view them, as it has no sense to protect the format.

In fact I assume it is "legal" to save the video in a "digital format" and to view them again on the TV (otherwise they would be against the law), so it should be also legal to view them through another device.

[ghostma]

I forgot to say one detail: here in Italy we have now the new television broadcasted over the air in "DIGITAL" format (DVB-T).

What I recorded was of course the "free" television broadcasted that is NOT encripted on the air.
(On the contrary, some special channels you must pay are encripted and you must use a special decoder with a card to decript it)

[Farscape1]

What I recorded was of course the "free" television broadcasted that is NOT encripted on the air.
(On the contrary, some special channels you must pay are encripted and you must use a special decoder with a card to decript it)

even if the program you are recording is on a "free" channel and not a "pay" channel, it can still have the "copy once" flag. if it is flagged that way, you can only view it with the device that recorded it. and currently there isn't any way to defeat the "copy once" or "copy never" flags.

you can purchase cards for your pc that allow you to view and record cable/satellite programs on your pc (hauppauge makes several products and i can't remember who makes the card that can record 4 channels at the same time...i suppose google holds the answer).

so i don't think that sharp was misleading you. if the station you are recording from uses the "copy freely" flag, then i have no doubt that your tv will perform as advertised. sharp can't be held accountable for every channel of every country it sells its tvs in. they don't decide which flag a channel provider uses in their broadcasts.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks folk
I called the Sharp support in Italy, they told me that the "feature" the TV is aimed to provide is to let the user be able to make a back-up copy on the PC, or to store the files to view again them in the future through the TV.
They do not certify the fact that the recording can be view on a PC.

BUT I argue that the manual is really misleading, because it says:
"Recorded programmes are saved into the connected USB disk in .TS format (MPEG-2 transport stream).
If desirable, you can back up / copy these saved recordings into a personal computer."

-> OK this is the feature they mentioned, but the manual immediately after says the following:

"Note: It is possible that recorded broadcasts in .TS format may not be supported by your media playback software.
In such a case, you should install an appropriate media playback software to your computer."

So they are not warning that the filed are encripted BUT on the contrary their message is clear, "you should install an appropriate software to your computer" to playback the files.

I bought the TV just for this feature and I did NOT like to found out it is not available, so I wrote a letter of complain.

Anyway I continue thinking there should be a codec somewhere to view them, as it has no sense to protect the format.

In fact I assume it is "legal" to save the video in a "digital format" and to view them again on the TV (otherwise they would be against the law), so it should be also legal to view them through another device.

There may be no legal reason to encrypt recordings, but most countries apparently do not have laws that prevent free over-the-air programming from being encrypted by a recording device. I say this because most discrete DVRs encrypt every recording stored on a hard drive. It does not matter if they are from a free over-the-air source or a paid TV service. Encrypting everything makes it simpler for the manufacturer to obey copyright laws and to honor any agreements they make with other companies (like conditional access TV services) which requires them to copy-protect some recorded programming.

I would not be surprised if TVs with DVR-like features do the same thing for recordings stored on a usb drive. Your TV likely records the transport stream it tunes (either MPEG-2 or MPEG-4) without converting it to another codec, but encrypts the file.

If you must have portable recordings made from a free over-the-air source, your best bet is to install a DVB-T PC TV tuner and PVR software, and record using a PC.

[usually_quiet]

it sounds like the file has the "copy-once" flag. trying to open it on anything than the device it was recorded on is not probable.

in the US, CBS (at least my local affiliate WBZ) uses the "copy-freely" flag while my local ch 38 uses the "copy-once" (which really angers me).

It sounds like you are recording from cable. If you received the same channels using an antenna as the source, they would not have "copy once" protection applied. The FCC does not permit local stations to use "copy once" to protect over-the-air broadcasts.

Cable providers are not supposed to encrypt or copy protect channels available from your local over-the-air stations either, but sometimes do. ...and there is a possibility what they are doing is legal, because retransmission consent agreements made with broadcast networks can change the rules. You could notify the FCC that you think your cable provider is in violation of FCC rules because it encrypts or copy protects some channels available from local over-the-air stations and see what they say.

[cd090580]

BUT I argue that the manual is really misleading, because it says:
"Recorded programmes are saved into the connected USB disk in .TS format (MPEG-2 transport stream).
If desirable, you can back up / copy these saved recordings into a personal computer."

They never say you can play them on a PC, you can copy them to another hard disk/media just for backup purpose and when you want to play them you just plug that device on the TV to play the files. The only drawback: if your TV broke down, it's not sure the files can be played on another TV of the same brand (especially if they are encrypted)

[ghostma]

Dear cd090580 -> you touched the point.
Some years ago I bought a DVD recorder from LG, it was one of the first recorder on the market with an internal Hard Disk and it is still very valid.
I tried to open it and internally there is normal HD I can read also with my PC but the files are encripted.
BUT in this case the recorder has the option to create a DVD from the Hard Disk so I can create a media that any device will be able to reproduce even in the future.
If the content is protected, the recorder detects it and refuses to record it.

On the contrary, in the case of the Sharp recording capability, if the TV is broken no other device will be able to show it again, and I also sow that in the newer version of the same TV they even eliminated the recording feature at all

[jagabo]

On the contrary, in the case of the Sharp recording capability, if the TV is broken no other device will be able to show it again, and I also sow that in the newer version of the same TV they even eliminated the recording feature at all

And that's the way Hollywood wants it.