XVID conversions too small

[coyote2]

I'm trying to convert two sets of files (one set DIVX, one set DX50) to XVID.

(Because until I do, they won't play on at least one of my standalones, and I want everyone to be able to play them. So perhaps it's a separate issue why my Philips 5922, which I think should play them, won't. [Before or after I did the 4.1.1 firmware hack by vb6rocod.])

But when I follow the instructions here (Option 1) to convert to XVID using VirtualDub 1.9.11, on the second pass the output saved is only 1/10 the size of the original.

I chose the the largest Target Size offered by the Bitrate Calculator (I'm happy for it to be as large as is advisable).

[jman98]

I'm curious. Did you choose 64 Mbps for your audio because you don't know any better or do you deliberately want to make the audio sound as crappy as possible? You can cut down the audio like this if you want, but it's kind of like getting all excited because you were able to buy a new HDVT for $699.99 instead of $700. The amount of space savings you are getting with 64 Mpbs is pretty negligible over say 128 and in the end you're not going to save enough room with the 64 Mbps to justify the decreased audio quality.

[coyote2]

I'm curious. Did you choose 64 Mbps for your audio because you don't know any better or do you deliberately want to make the audio sound as crappy as possible? You can cut down the audio like this if you want, but it's kind of like getting all excited because you were able to buy a new HDVT for $699.99 instead of $700. The amount of space savings you are getting with 64 Mpbs is pretty negligible over say 128 and in the end you're not going to save enough room with the 64 Mbps to justify the decreased audio quality.

Because I don't know any better.

I've set VirtualDub's Audio = "Direct stream Copy".

I chose 64 kbps in audio Bitrate because (as you see in GSpot) the original file's audio is a 64 kbps mp3. I gather from your question that these numbers are somehow different.

I don't have the slightest interest in saving space.

[neomaine]

There should be little, if any, difference between those 'types'. More than likely you're running to an issue which many standalones will have a problem. You'd be better off showing us the GSPOT/Mediainfo for the actuall files you're having a problem with.

(You will gain nothing except an additional loss of quality doing a meaningless conversion from divx/dx50 to xvid.)

[coyote2]

There should be little, if any, difference between those 'types'. More than likely you're running to an issue which many standalones will have a problem. You'd be better off showing us the GSPOT/Mediainfo for the actuall files you're having a problem with.

(You will gain nothing except an additional loss of quality doing a meaningless conversion from divx/dx50 to xvid.)

That is the GSpot for the actual file I'm having a problem with. I'll follow with Mediainfo too, for both sets of files.

[coyote2]

Here are the GSpot and MediaInfo for one from each sets of files:

The first file is available here: http://www.archive.org/download/AdamCurtis-25MillionPounds/25MillionPounds.avi

I would be happy to provide a smaller sample of it, or of the other file, if that might help.

[davexnet]

Try it this way.
Open the file in Virtualdub and open the video compression/xvid. Hit the button "load defaults"

Set the encoding type to 2 pass 1st pass (and enter 770 in the bitrate if it is not greyed out)
Leave audio as "direct stream copy"
file/queue batch operation/run video analysis pass.

Re-enter the xvid config and set the encoding type to 2 pass - 2nd pass. Enter the bitrate of 770 if it is not present.
file/queue batch operation/save as avi - give it a name and location.

File/job control - you should see the two jobs. Hit start and wait for them both to finish.

[Ai Haibara]

Just as a side note - for MediaInfo, use Tree View (text) when checking your videos. You can then copy the information from there and paste it into a post as plain text, if need be. No need to push multiple windows into a single image file capture.

(It would probably also be better if you captured and posted each GSpot window as separate images. )

[coyote2]

Just as a side note - for MediaInfo, use Tree View (text) when checking your videos. You can then copy the information from there and paste it into a post as plain text, if need be. No need to push multiple windows into a single image file capture.

(It would probably also be better if you captured and posted each GSpot window as separate images. )

Thank you Ai Haibara, from now on I'll post the info as you recommend. I appreciate that it would be more readable that way.

[coyote2]

Try it this way.
Open the file in Virtualdub and open the video compression/xvid. Hit the button "load defaults"

Set the encoding type to 2 pass 1st pass (and enter 770 in the bitrate if it is not greyed out)
Leave audio as "direct stream copy"
file/queue batch operation/run video analysis pass.

Re-enter the xvid config and set the encoding type to 2 pass - 2nd pass. Enter the bitrate of 770 if it is not present.
file/queue batch operation/save as avi - give it a name and location.

File/job control - you should see the two jobs. Hit start and wait for them both to finish.

I was hopeful that "load defaults" would work, thinking perhaps VDub was remembering settings I used on a video last week that was 5% as long, when I used VDub for the first and most-recent time.

And thank you for teaching me how to batch jobs!

But while the output was a tiny bit larger, it's still only 10% the size of the original file. I remain stumped.

[davexnet]

What is the bitrate of the new file? What does Mediainfo say? Put it into view/text mode and include it here.

[jagabo]

I just ran a single pass target quantizer (constant quality) encoding with the quantizer at 3 (on the file linked to in post 6, no filtering, fast recompress), otherwise the default settings, and got a 441 MB file.

I followed up with a 2-pass encode at 770 kbps (same as the source) and got a 314 MB file, as expected.

How does your reencoded file look? Is it all black? Are you sure you ran both passes of the 2 pass encode? 1/10 the size of the original sounds like the results of the first pass -- a black video (which compresses to nearly nothing) and the audio.

[coyote2]

What is the bitrate of the new file?

Overall bit rate : 88.1 Kbps

What does Mediainfo say? Put it into view/text mode and include it here.

Complete name : C:\work\curtis-NEW\VDub source recode to XviD\test\2stpass25MillionPounds(onlyVLC).avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 33.0 MiB
Duration : 52mn 24s
Overall bit rate : 88.1 Kbps
Writing application : AVI-Mux GUI 1.17.8, Aug 30 2008 12:36:58
Writing library : VirtualDub build 32842/release

Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP : 2
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode : Packed bitstream
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD
Duration : 52mn 24s
Bit rate : 14.4 Kbps
Width : 352 pixels
Height : 288 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.222
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.006
Stream size : 5.39 MiB (16%)
Writing library : XviD 64

Audio
ID : 1
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Mode : Joint stereo
Mode extension : MS Stereo
Codec ID : 55
Codec ID/Hint : MP3
Duration : 52mn 24s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 64.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 24.0 MiB (73%)
Alignment : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration : 40 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 500 ms

[coyote2]

I just ran a single pass target quantizer (constant quality) encoding with the quantizer at 3 (on the file linked to in post 6, no filtering, fast recompress), otherwise the default settings, and got a 441 MB file.

I followed up with a 2-pass encode at 770 kbps (same as the source) and got a 314 MB file, as expected.

How does your reencoded file look? Is it all black?

Yes, except for a narrow band of colored boxes at the bottom.

Are you sure you ran both passes of the 2 pass encode?

Yes I am sure. In fact I've repeated it 8 times, both in batch mode and as separate steps. (As separate steps, pass 1 = 28MG, pass 2 = 33 MB)

1/10 the size of the original sounds like the results of the first pass -- a black video (which compresses to nearly nothing) and the audio.

Hmm. Maybe VDub is somehow "stuck" in first pass mode even when I select 2nd pass. Perhaps I should un/re-install?

[jagabo]

If you scrub through the source file in VirtualDub do you see the video? Or the same black window with a little noise at the bottom?

[coyote2]

If you scrub through the source file in VirtualDub do you see the video? Or the same black window with a little noise at the bottom?

I suspect you've nailed it! (Which isn't to say I know the diagnosis.)

Because while I don't understand "scrub through", I tried everything I could think of (play input button, all the other buttons, the slider) to move around the file while playing, but I see nothing but black except for one blue pixel. Ditto when I re-downloaded the source file from archive.org.

I'll note that VLC plays it, but neither of my two standalone players (Philips 5992, TViX M6500A) will play it.

I'll also note that http://www.archive.org/details/AdamCurtis-25MillionPounds also provides an mp4 (video bitrate 702), which my TViX box does play. But my Philips box needs an .avi, and I want people similarly situated to be able to watch the film. I only decided to turn the avi version into an XVID avi, because I (made a noob) guess that that might entail less quality loss than turning the mp4 into an XVID avi. But if for whatever reason the later is the way for me to go now, I warmly invite suggestions on the highest quality approach. (I did tinker with that initially, and installed Quickitime.vdplugin so I could load an mp4 into VDub, but I read about mp4 VDub bugs when googling that plugin, and, er honestly I forget if I even tried converting the mp4 in VDub.)

In any case, I can't overstate how much I appreciate how kind and helpful everyone has been since I dipped my toes in the video waters last week. I myself feel good that I can advise people in my audio editing specialty, and it's touching to see others sharing with me. Incidentally, I got into this challenge because I got hooked by this filmmaker's documentaries, and decided to produce a collection. In another thread people walked me through everything it took to join two partial files to make the first ever circulating complete version of one of his films.

[davexnet]

Sounds good, got to the bottom of it. Holding the shift key and dragging the pointer at the bottom.
is a good test. If you don't get a good image, not worth encoding. For some reason the source is not decoded properly
and that needs to be fixed before you go any further.

[jagabo]

Yes, there's something odd about the way it's encoded. 32 bit Xvid with 32 bit VirtualDub can't decode it properly on my system either. 64 bit Xvid and 64 bit VirtualDub have no problems with it. ffdshow is also able to decode it properly. You can install ffdshow, enable its Divx/Xvid decoder, then 32 bit VirtualDub should work properly.

[coyote2]

Yes, there's something odd about the way it's encoded. 32 bit Xvid with 32 bit VirtualDub can't decode it properly on my system either. 64 bit Xvid and 64 bit VirtualDub have no problems with it.

Interesting! Now I see how my VirtualDub could have problems that jagabo didn't have (at first).
(I was wondering if something went wrong with my installs of the DivX and/or Xvid codecs.)

ffdshow is also able to decode it properly. You can install ffdshow, enable its Divx/Xvid decoder, then 32 bit VirtualDub should work properly.

Sweet, I'll do that, thank you very much jagabo and davexnet!

[jagabo]

ffdshow is also able to decode it properly. You can install ffdshow, enable its Divx/Xvid decoder, then 32 bit VirtualDub should work properly.

Sweet, I'll do that, thank you very much jagabo and davexnet!

Remember VirtualDub uses VFW codecs so enable the VFW decoder in ffdshow. Start -> All Programs -> ffdshow -> VFW Configuration.

[coyote2]

ffdshow is also able to decode it properly. You can install ffdshow, enable its Divx/Xvid decoder, then 32 bit VirtualDub should work properly.

Sweet, I'll do that, thank you very much jagabo and davexnet!

Remember VirtualDub uses VFW codecs so enable the VFW decoder in ffdshow. Start -> All Programs -> ffdshow -> VFW Configuration.

Thank you very much, jagabo! I installed ffdshow, and I've looked for the settings you mention, but I don't think I've found them (even after reading AfterDawn's "ffdshow Installation and Configuration" guide) since VirtualDub still isn't showing me that file.

In "VFW Configuration", in it's Decoder tab, I don't see "VFW" anywhere (except the format FVFW which already isn't disabled [Decoder = libavcodec]).

As for enabling the "Divx/Xvid decoder" they too (on the same screen) already aren't disabled, and Decoder = libavcodec).

I made sure to tell the ffdshow installer I'd be using VirtualDub. I've looked at every ffdshow setting and I can't guess what I need to do; I can only guess that with so many settings, I must need to do something more.

[davexnet]

In the decoder tab, hilight "codecs" (top left)

ON the right hilight xvid and set it to libavcodec

[jagabo]

After selecting Start -> All Programs -> ffdshow -> VFW Configuration select the Decoder tab, highlight codecs at the top of the left pane. Then locate Divx 4/5/6 in the right pane and use the pulldown to select libavcodec.



I recommend you also select the Encoder tab, highlight "Tray,dialog & paths" in the left pane, then enable "Tray icons" in the right pane (modern or classic). That way an icon will appear in the system tray any time ffdshow is in use. You'll know for certain if the player or editor is using ffdshow to decode the video or audio.

[coyote2]

After selecting Start -> All Programs -> ffdshow -> VFW Configuration select the Decoder tab, highlight codecs at the top of the left pane. Then locate Divx 4/5/6 in the right pane and use the pulldown to select libavcodec.


[Attachment 9216 - Click to enlarge]

Thank you very much davexnet and jaagbo. However, those settings were already that way when I first looked at that screen.

(As I tried to report in my last post.)

I recommend you also select the Encoder tab, highlight "Tray,dialog & paths" in the left pane, then enable "Tray icons" in the right pane (modern or classic). That way an icon will appear in the system tray any time ffdshow is in use. You'll know for certain if the player or editor is using ffdshow to decode the video or audio.

I love that, thank you! I was particularly concerned about audio codecs (and thus later I plan to set audio decoder Merit = Unlikely), since audio editing is my primary field.

[jagabo]

Is the ffddshow video icon showing up in the Tray when you open the Xvid file?

[coyote2]

Is the ffddshow video icon showing up in the Tray when you open the Xvid file?

No. No ffdshow icons appear when I open the Xvid file.

[davexnet]

Try it this way.
File/open put a check mark in the box "ask for extended option"
Select the source file.

In the import options screen check off "force video codec handler fourcc to" and enter FFDS in the box.

Does ffdshow open the file now?
You can check with file/info, and of course, you should have a picture now.

[jagabo]

It looks like ffdshow's VFW decoder doesn't put an icon in the system tray (only the encoder). But VirtualDub does show ffdshow as the decompressor when you look at File -> File Information.

Another thing you can try if you have VirtualDub's DirectShow source filter installed: use the Files of Type pulldown to specify DirectShow Input Driver when you open the file. That way DirectShow will decompress the video, not VFW.

[coyote2]

Try it this way.
File/open put a check mark in the box "ask for extended option"
Select the source file.

In the import options screen check off "force video codec handler fourcc to" and enter FFDS in the box.

Does ffdshow open the file now?

Yes! Thank you very much, I do have a picture now, what a relief!

You can check with file/info, and of course, you should have a picture now.

[coyote2]

It looks like ffdshow's VFW decoder doesn't put an icon in the system tray (only the encoder).

Thanks for mentioning that, I would have been concerned otherwise.

But VirtualDub does show ffdshow as the decompressor when you look at File -> File Information.

Indeed it does!

Another thing you can try if you have VirtualDub's DirectShow source filter installed: use the Files of Type pulldown to specify DirectShow Input Driver when you open the file. That way DirectShow will decompress the video, not VFW.

It sounds like (if so I'll happily just take your word for it) this is advisable to do. But I tried to find the "VirtualDub DirectShow source filter" and I'm striking out; where should I look, please? (I tried googling, and I tried http://www.virtualdub.org/virtualdub_filters.html but that directed me to http://neuron2.net/ where even the Search is getting me no closer to this filter.)