Just built my computer..any tips?

[NaHLiJ]

I just finished building my barebones kit, I have a AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Processor 3.2 GHz, 8GB RAM

and do u guys have any tips? mayb any gadget tips? This is my first time ever hearing about gadgets and i currently have GPU meter that I dont think reads my graphics card, i have a GeForce 8400 GS.

And I have All CPU Meter with the core speeds and temperature and stuff. I have some questions on this

When is the temperature for the cores getting too high? I havent opened up any programs yet; when im only browsing it stays at 88 F.

Also it says my clock is 800MHz. What does that mean? I thought i had a 3.2 GHz processor, when its a 800 does that just means thats all its using or something?

[jman98]

These are the best tips I can give you, which don't really have anything to do with gadgets.

1) Have one drive for boot (SSD if you wish or simply another normal disk drive) and one or more separate drives for storage, work, etc.
2) Do REGULAR backups. I use Windows own Win 7 backup tool to write to one of my storage drives and those backups saved my PC within a few months of building it. Let's just say that it was my fault by some carelessness which would have caused me to have to do a complete reinstall from scratch without my backups to restore from. I have lost count of how many times my brother was able to restore an XP computer he owned to an earlier date to save it when things went horribly wrong on it after software installation (his 2nd oldest son at the time was notorious for non-safe computing practices).

[redwudz]

88F = ~31C. About right. What you want to watch is the temperature under full load. Keep it below 70C, preferably below 50C.

If you want better info on temps, voltages, try HWMonitor: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

For CPU, MB, RAM info, try CPU-Z: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

Both freeware.

Not sure where you are seeing the 800Mhz at, probably the RAM speed. Normally the FSB is 200Mhz, then times the multiplier (16?) would be 3200Mhz for the CPU. If you set up the MB at stock settings and you have all the 'energy saving' options running, you may see a lower CPU speed at idle as it reduces the multiplier. It should ramp up to 3.2Ghz under load.

I use a AMD 1055T, OC'd to 3.5Ghz by raising the FSB to 250Mhz. My idle temp are about 26C (78F) and full load temps are about 45C (113F), but I'm using a Corsair H50 water cooling setup on the CPU.

You can also check the Task Manager>Performance, and you should see six cores and the percent of usage. With some types of encoding, like H.264, you should be able to use all cores at close to 100% and the CPU will get warmer. A quick test: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=520 If you run HWMonitor at the same time, you can check the max temps.

I don't use any of those 'Gadgets'. I'm assuming you mean the sidebar in W7? They just clutter up the screen, IMO.

[fritzi93]

Agree with all the above.

Just wanted to say that your thread on the kit prompted me to do another build with the same processor. Didn't buy a kit though. Parts should be here in a couple days.

I studied a lot of benchmarks and it seems that if one's priority is heavily threaded applications, that processor is a good value for money. Yeah, it's not an Intel Core.

Anyway, AMD has a couple offerings, though I wouldn't call them "gadgets". AMD Overdrive for one, and AMD CPU Information Display Utility.

[usually_quiet]

Gadgets do impact performance, but that varies depending on the gadget. How much customization do you want to do?

deviantart.com and some other websites have a selection of wallpapers, icons, themes and gadgets. WindowBlinds lets you skin windows and Rocketdock lets you install custom docks.

Rainmeter lets you build and customize gadgets, but you have to do a bit of programming to do much. There is a selection of different pre-made gadgets, themes, and heads up displays available for Rainmeter.

[NaHLiJ]

The 800MHz is labeled as clock but on the site it says that is the core speed. I have seen it go up to 1200MHz but i havent opened up any programs to check full load yet. For the temperature I dont have anything but the CPU fan on the processor, but i heard that keep the room well ventilated and using some home-use fans work too, would that work a little bit? I have to still try full load to see what the stats are though.

[redwudz]

The 800Mhz 'might' be the MB and OS ramping down the CPU speed, but that is pretty low. That would be like a multiplier of 4, where the normal multiplier is probably 16. I would run a full load test to see if the CPU is able to operate at 3.2Ghz. And check those temps at that point.

You really need some internal case fans or the hot air from the CPU cooler doesn't get out of the case very well. I use a front intake fan and a rear exhaust fan for good through flow. Most any decent case should have mounts for both. 120mm case fans are preferred as they are usualy quieter than the smaller 80mm fans and move more air at the same time.

[NaHLiJ]

Yeah its only at 800MHz when im not running anything. As I run programs it goes up to 3200MHz.

A question about the HWMonitor, where it says Powers -> Package. The Max is how much watts im using? Cuz everyone told me the 450W PSU for my kit wasnt going to be enough but that thing only says 136W so im not even close to 450W...

[aedipuss]

Yeah its only at 800MHz when im not running anything. As I run programs it goes up to 3200MHz.

A question about the HWMonitor, where it says Powers -> Package. The Max is how much watts im using? Cuz everyone told me the 450W PSU for my kit wasnt going to be enough but that thing only says 136W so im not even close to 450W...

that is how many watts your cpu package is using. it's a hog at 136 watts. it uses about 50% more energy than a comparable intel cpu.

[redwudz]

I'm not sure where HWMonitor comes up with the 'Package' wattage. My PC shows 141.6 watts. but that is OC'd and with all power saving programs turned off. I ran the benchmark I linked to earlier and that wattage didn't change, though the system is definitely using more power with 100% CPU on all six cores. The CPU temp went from 25C to 38C. (I love water cooling. )

Some of the other temps HWM lists are for the Northbridge chip, I believe the I/0 controller, and the GPU, if it's on the MB. The GPU is normally the highest temp, 55C isn't unusual. The Northbridge is next lower and the I/O the lowest. One of those might be RAM temps instead, but I'm not sure.

Power supplies are rated by the amperage output on each rail. The 5V rail is usually the strongest as I believe that's where most modern CPUs draw their power. The 12V rail is mostly used for drives and fans. There may also be a -12V and -5V rail that is usually low amperage. Also a ~3V rail used for some CPUs and probably RAM.

450W is plenty for most PCs. If you have a high powered video card(s) that have to be attached to the PS directly, then more power may be needed. I run several servers with 8-9 hard drives, a optical drive and four 120mm fans with 500W PS's.

My 6 core PC has a 500W Thermaltake PS. But one simple way to check to see if your PS is properly rated for your PC. Put your hand by the output fan of the power supply when the PC is under load and see how warm it is. If it's like a hair blow dryer, it's probably too small. You shouldn't smell hot metal or plastic from that output, either.

And it makes a big difference what brand and model of power supply you have. Some 'no-name' power supplies may be rated for 500W, but they are really 250W units. I only use name brand PS's. Seasonic, Thermaltake, Antec and a score of others. They run quiet and cool. I have had cheap power supplies burn up the entire PC, so it's not a place to pinch pennies.

[aedipuss]

here's an i7 2600 o/c to 4ghz in the middle of doing an 8 threaded encode. i have never seen it go over 90watts.

[NaHLiJ]

Ok so i tried it under full load, not exactly 100% but it ranged from 70%-100% and the temperature went as high as like 119 F and stayed around there but i dont think ever went over 120 F and my fan that is with the processor was working real hard im assuming because the processor was running high. Is this ok temperature or should i be worried?

[aedipuss]

amd lists max temp as 62c or 144f. just keep an eye on it when room temps are higher in the summer.

[NaHLiJ]

i saw a 120mm fan at compusa for $30. what good what that do to my computer? Would it bring the temperature down or would it even help? If not what do you suggest that will keep it down when im using full load?

[redwudz]

$30US is a bit high for a 120mm case fan. Most quality fans go for about $10 - $20US. This is the case fan setup I use for most PCs:



If you had just one fan, I would use the rear exhaust. But it's more efficient to push air in from the front and blow it out the back. You can examine your case to determine if it has the proper fan mounts and their size. Usually to install the front fan, you have to pop off the front case bezel. Usually there are clips holding it on at the front inside of the case.

Moving more air through the case should lower your max temps a fair amount. Your power supply is likely acting as a exhaust fan at present, but a rear fan would be more efficient.

One way to check for cooling efficiency is to remove the side cover from your case and see if your temps drop. You can also direct a desk fan in there for a further test. If the CPU temps and the case temps drop quite a bit, then you likely need better cooling. I would try this test with your CPU loaded down to 50% or better. The energy saving settings at idle will keep your CPU fairly cool, so it needs to be 'stressed' a bit to see how your cooling is working.

120F = 48C which is fairly good if that's the max CPU temp. But you need to run the CPU at max for about a half hour to determine if that is the max CPU temp. CPU temps over 60C (140F) are not desirable and can shorten your CPU life and cause the thermal compound on your CPU to age fairly quickly and become less efficient.

[fritzi93]

You should have an option in your BIOS to shutdown the computer when temperatures spike too high. Like 60-65 C, 65-70 C, etc. I have mine set for 60 C on all my computers.

I have my build up and running and am busy installing /configuring programs. Haven't run an X264 video encode yet, but am anticipating a big improvement over my old two-core machine. My setup is pretty much as rewudz outlined above: front fan blowing over the hard drives, rear fan exhausting hot air. With the addition of a side fan blowing directly on the CPU and GPU. All 120 mm fans.

[redwudz]

A lot of BIOS temp programs just sound a buzzer for a CPU overheat. But the MB and the CPU can shut down the PC for a major overheat with most modern setups. I had a PC where the cooler mounting bracket broke and it would only run about 5 seconds before shut down. Of course, I tried restarting several times before opening the case to discover the problem. The PC was smarter than me in this case and no damage was done. The cooler was lightly touching about 1/4 of the CPU heatsink.

If you want an easy stress test, try the benchmark I posted earlier. You should get close to 100% on all cores. Monitor the CPU temps at the same time.

I'm not a 'fan' of case side fans unless they are filtered. Otherwise they can blow dust directly into your CPU cooling fins. They can also disrupt the air stream through the case, front to back. They will function better with a duct to direct the air only to the CPU fan. I tend to seal up any unnecessary holes in my case, so that the only air comes from the front fan(s) and flows to the back fan(s). The front fan(s) pressurize and the rear fan(s) vacuum and that seems to give the highest air velocity and cooling.

The real test is to check the inside of your case after about a month of use. It should be dust free if your filtration is working. I have my PC setting on the carpet and that's not usually good as close to the floor is where most dust resides. Move it up about a foot and you will get a lot less dust. Top of the desk is better, but then you have to listen to the fans if you didn't get quiet ones.

[NaHLiJ]

Yea i was going to ask about that because i currently only have the fan on the processor and i can hear and when it has to run real fast its pretty loud. If i add like 2 80mm fans and 1 120mm fan wouldnt that bring more noise???

[redwudz]

Not necessarily. If you improve your case airflow, you 'may' quiet down your PC as the CPU fan will have cooler air to work with and the hot air will move more efficiently out of the case and the fan should run slower and quieter. But some CPU fans are just loud, no matter what. But still, improving your case airflow is much cheaper and easier than upgrading your CPU cooler most times.

I've used these 80mm fans quite a bit. Not very strong, but very quiet and very long lived: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999199 These are very quiet at 14 dBA, almost silent. They don't move a lot of air, but are great for front case fans where you want quiet. Used in tandem for rear fans, they work fairly well.

For 120mm fans, I've recently tried a couple of these after my other front case fans seemed to have a problem with starting up: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835426016 This fan is about 20 dBA, still fairly quiet. And much quieter than your CPU fan, which is probably closer to 30 - 40 dBA at full speed. I suspect you will be barely able to hear either of these at ten feet.

Some other quiet fans that are popular, Scythe, Noctua, XIGMATEK. I would stay away from thermal controlled fans for the front of the case as they will only read the intake air temp and run slow when they need to move more air. They work better for the back, but constant speed fans work well enough. Your motherboard may also have case fan thermal speed controls, but that may be a bit harder to set up.

You don't have to pay a fortune for decent case fans.

[fritzi93]

I've revamped my case fan layout per redwudz' recommendations. Thanks. I always had good low temperatures but yes, had to clean the dust out every few months.

I had a CPU fan mount come loose too. I was doing a BDRB encode when the computer suddenly shut down. Restarted and everything seemed okay, so I resumed the encode. It shut down again. Huh? Restarted and opened HWMonitor. Whoa, at idle the temp was over 50 C. Turned out one of the CPU fan posts had come loose.

So I carefully cleaned off the thermal paste, reapplied and very carefully reattached the CPU fan. Goddamn Intel stock fans. It's been okay ever since.

Anyway, I have a few observations about overclocking, followed by some questions:

The AMD OverDrive utility is useful. It provides exhaustive information, a one hour stability test, and a quick performance benchmark function to compare results at each step of the overclocking process. But the automatic overclock function doesn't seem to work very well. Maybe it works for others, but I tried it three times and the computer shut down each time partway through the process.

The AMD Phenom II X6 1090T BE (black edition) has an unlocked multiplier of course. So an overclock of the multiplier in the BIOS is simple. (I've overclocked before, but am no expert on it). I've worked it up one step at a time to 3.5 GHz, running benchmarks and stability at each stage. At stock, I got ~ 36 FPS in a BDRB re-encode (high-speed BD25 option), total CPU usage about 50% or so. (Apparently AviSynth is the bottleneck, according to jdobbs). After overclocking to 3.5 GHz, I'm getting ~ 61 fps with ~ 63% CPU load. Wow, that's a good deal more than I expected. Temperatures never got above 45 C, per HWM. BTW, the best I ever got with my dual-core (2.0 GHz overclocked to 2.4 GHZ) was ~ 15 fps using the same settings, both cores going at 100%.

Now for the questions:

How important is it to disable energy saving functions? I've tried it both ways and it makes no difference, at least no difference immediately apparent to me. Do the energy options cause stability problems in any way? With the energy saving options on, everything ramps down at idle and comes back up under load okay. It's nice to *not* have that stock cooler sounding like a jet engine all the time. Pretty decent for a stock cooler, but rather loud.

I've read quite a bit at overclocking sites and it seems there is no agreement on this, although most will advocate turning off anything to do with energy saving. Also, one must take things with a grain of salt. I've seen posts by supposedly experienced overclockers that confound the terms C1E and EIST, which aren't the same thing. I've seen posts stating that Core Leveling is the same as Turbo Core, although it's no such thing.

Anyway, how about it? Energy saving options or not?
Why the difference in CPU usage at stock vs OC when running BDRB?
And what the hell is the "Smart Multi-Core" option in the BIOS?

Thanks.

[redwudz]

I tend to shut off all energy saving settings in BIOS mainly because they make it harder for me to set up an initial overclock. Once the OC settings are tested and running, you can probably turn most of them back on. But I would then run some tests to see if the OC is still fully functional with the programs you use. The most common energy saving settings reduce the CPU Front Side Bus (FSB) multiplier at low CPU loads.

I'm mostly interested in case and CPU temps at max CPU loads of ~100%, so that's another reason the energy saving settings don't interest me as they mostly operate at low CPU loads. However, if you have marginal case and CPU cooling, they are probably more useful.

I don't normally mess with voltages, except sometimes RAM voltages when they aren't automatically set at the manufacturers recommended voltage by the motherboard BIOS. My present PC is overclocked only by raising the FSB setting from the stock 200Mhz to about 250Mhz. All other CPU, MB, and RAM settings and voltages are on automatic. I burned out one CPU a few years ago ajusting the CPU voltage settings (A cheap dual core), so I leave them alone now most times.

I've tried the AMD Overdrive a bit, but I feel more comfortable just using BIOS OC'ing. I'm no expert with OC'ing. I start with the settings some 'experts' suggest and most of the time I can't get stability, so I just stick with increasing the FSB.

I'm using a inexpensive 1055T six core CPU that runs at 2.8Ghz stock and OC'ing it to 3.5Ghz, which runs it at the speed of the more expensive versions, so I've saved a few dollars. I've tried higher FSB settings, up to 3.7Ghz, but it's not stable enough, even with dropping the RAM speed. At my 3.5Ghz settings, the RAM runs at 1666Mhz, which it's rated at, so it's stable enough and runs cool enough.

With Corsair H50 water cooling, the CPU runs at about 25C at idle, so no reason to turn the energy savings back on, IMO. The water cooling setup also has the advantage of reducing the case temps as CPU air cooling does tend to blow hot air around the case and not all of that gets exhausted quickly.

I did add a small silent axillary fan to blow case air onto my RAM and NB chips. And the PC is very quiet, and needs to be as it's by my entertainment center. I have two 1000RPM 120mm front fans with filters and the H50 exhausts the case through a push-pull setup with two more stacked 120mm fans with the water radiator in between. Those are PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) speed controlled by the MB CPU fan controller. They run at about 600RPM at idle and about 1200RPM at full CPU load.

I may go with a AMD 1090T Black Edition, now that it's cheap enough. Haven't decided yet. If so, I would probably OC it to about 3.7Ghz. The Bulldozer is interesting, but I would have to upgrade my MB and I'm not ready to do that at present.

Just guessing about 'Smart Multi-Core', but it's probably a program to temporarily disable some of the cores during low CPU loads. That's easy enough to do in BIOS.

[fritzi93]

Thanks a bunch for the reply.

1) Yes, I only turned the energy saving stuff back on after the overclock.

2) I'm seeing good temperatures. Since the stock CPU fan is okay and I intend to keep it, I think I'd rather enable SmartFan, performance option. The noise difference between 6,000 rpms and even 5,000 rpms is considerable. At 4,000 rpms it's pretty quiet.

3) I have no intention of fooling with any voltage increases. As I understand it, when you push the multiplier that one step beyond where the CPU is stable, a small voltage increase can do the job. But I'd rather not push my luck with it. Max OC with multiplier alone will be good enough for me.

As to memory, I have 4 sticks of 4 GB DDR3, 1066, CAS 7. Manually set in the BIOS, since I don't trust the auto settings. I'm thinking that will be good enough for my purposes. (I intend running some VMs).

4) I originally intended getting the 1055T while I was working up my parts list. Then Newegg dropped the price on the 1090T BE by, what was it, 20 bucks I think. Then I got a 72-hour promo notification for another 10 bucks. Sold.

5) Easy enough to turn off some cores using Core Leveling. I tried disabling all but Core0 and sure enough after booting I had a single core showing.

6) I can't find anything about "Smart Multi Core" anywhere after extensive searching.



Anyway, running good at 3.5 GHz. Although when I ran Prime95, core5 bombed out. I'm thinking if I adjusted ACC (advanced core calibration) for that core and dropped it down a little, it might pass Prime95. But since normal usage is good, I wonder just how important synthetic benchmarks are. Again, the AOC stability test finishes just fine. Any recommendations on other benchmarks I can run?

I'm still puzzled as to why running BDRB at stock 3.2 GHz and optimal BIOS defaults had total CPU usage at ~ 50%, while after the overclock BDRB used ~ 63%. And the big jump from 36 fps to 61 fps.

[fritzi93]

The 800MHz is labeled as clock but on the site it says that is the core speed.

I'm seeing much the same thing with AllCPUMeter (desktop gadget) and CPU-Z. The CPU is obviously throttling the frequency back, because when running a stability test under full load I *do* see 3.5 GHz.

I'm only speculating at this point, but that might have something to do with AMD's "Cool'n'Quiet" tech, which can dynamically adjust core frequencies according to CPU load. I don't think it's the "CoolCore" feature, which as I understand it turns sections of core logic and memory controller on and off.

Or maybe it's that pesky "Smart Multi Core" thingy in the BIOS. I'll try one more time to see if I can find out anything about that.

[NaHLiJ]

3.5 GHz? I have the 1090T so mine would 3.2GHz but it says theres max turbo of 3.6GHz or something but i dont even know how to do that? I tried going into BIOS that said something about "improve CPU performance" but i dont think that option changed anything..

[fritzi93]

3.5 GHz? I have the 1090T so mine would 3.2GHz but it says theres max turbo of 3.6GHz or something but i dont even know how to do that? I tried going into BIOS that said something about "improve CPU performance" but i dont think that option changed anything..

I guess you haven't actually read any of the messages since your last post. The discussion about overclocking to be specific. Turbo Core is enabled by default. I've overclocked my 1090T from 3.2 GHz to 3.5 GHz.

[fritzi93]

Sorry, that was a little harsh. And apologies for semi-hijacking your thread.

Look, all this is actually rather simple. I've tested many BIOS settings over the last few days and it turns out only *one* BIOS setting change is necessary if you want to overclock that CPU. That one is the CPU multiplier, and it's changed at your own risk, blah blah. Default is 16x. So 16x 200 (clock frequency in MHz) = 3.2 GHz. You want more? Raise the multiplier to 16.5x. That will give you 3.3 GHz. And so on.

Optimal defaults work fine. You get into the BIOS by tapping the delete or f1 key at bootup; the POST (power-on-self-test) screen at startup will tell you that. If it's too quick for you to read, hit the pause/break key on your keyboard. Use your keyboard's arrow keys to navigate the BIOS, the enter key to choose an option, and escape to exit any sub-menus. There will be an option to load optimal defaults in the BIOS, but they're already loaded if you haven't fooled with it. Don't wanna overclock? You're fine. Although personally I'd go in there and enable the high temperature shutdown at 60 C.

The CPU speed you're seeing is because of your Windows power settings. Control Panel -> Power Options. You're probably using the "Balanced" plan. If you enable the "High Performance" plan (it's hidden under additional plans), you'll see the full CPU speed all the time, since Windows won't be throttling it back. That's what redwudz and I were talking about when discussing energy saving settings. Best to use the "High Performance" plan if you're gonna overclock the processor, at least initially.

If all you want to do is check your temperatures from time to time, get HWMonitor, as already suggested.

Anyway, it a great processor for anything multi-theaded. If I don't use any AviSynth scripting in BDRB, I can peg all cores and get ~77 fps (frames per second) and 45 degrees C, using the High-Speed BD25 setting. What a screamer that is, I'm very pleased.

Good luck and congratulations on your successful build.