Editing over ethernet using FCP 7?

[bhilgenkamp]

I still don't know who the dogs are though.

[budwzr]

What I mean is, Do the "FCP editors" feel resentful that FCPX allows anyone with a couple hundred bucks to claim they used FCP? Like it waters down the product?

BigDogs = Professionals
LittleDogs = Consumers

My Big/Little Dogs metaphor applies to anything that has an upper/lower pro/amateur level.

[bhilgenkamp]

I guess I was just a bit confused since you previously said "Out here in the real world, you're with the big dogs." I assumed you weren't including FCP with the "big dogs".

It's not a resentment that FCPX is so cheap anyone can buy it, therefore "devaluing" a professional tool and the knowledge associated with it. It's the fact that a lot of functionality was removed, and my thousands of dollars of hardware is useless with it.

Just curious - what NLE do you use?

[budwzr]

Those are documentaries. 90% of TV series and most movies are off-line editied on AVID products...

It's easy to spot the documentaries coming from FCP. They start out neutral and after about 20 minutes they plot a course to blame McDoogle's as the source of all evils.

....just a little levity, stay cool. We all know Applers are lefties.

[budwzr]

Just curious - what NLE do you use?

Vegas Pro

[bhilgenkamp]

It's easy to spot the documentaries coming from FCP. They start out neutral and after about 20 minutes they plot a course to blame McDoogle's as the source of all evils.

I wasn't aware FCP edited the footage itself. Wish I knew where that function is.

[budwzr]

I can't compare Vegas to FCP because I didn't know FCP was really a pro product, like for those in the industry.

I'm not a pro, but I do focus most of my efforts on compositing. I do not like anything pre-canned, I like to roll my own. In this aspect, Vegas provides a very good set of basic tools that are the foundation compositors use to build FX.

Vegas is kind of unique among NLE's in that it IS whatever the user is capable of. It only exposes its complexities to those that seek for them. So you will get many different opinions about Vegas.

Vegas, Baby!

[JimmyS]

FCP X is a complete rewrite of the app. It is now 100% 64 bit. After watching several hours of demo videos, perusing the manuals, etc., it looks to have about 85% - 90% of the capabilities of FCP 7. Most of the features of the Color and Soundtrack apps. have been integrated into the editor. At $300, It is probably the most feature rich editor in its price range. Add $50 each for Motion and Compressor. Its new workflow is almost a paradyme shift in the editing process. There will probably be a learning curve even for some experienced editors. I wouldn't say it has been dumbed down, but many things now can be automated if desired.

There were a lot of questions as to why Apple would shift the market focus of this fairly successful program. An author of one FCP site may have hit the nail on the head. His logic was: Apple is in business to sell systems. With FCP aimed at the pro market, it gave them the opportunity to sell thousands of systems to thousands of users. By refocusing FCP X. to the pro-sumer market, it will give them the opportunity to sell hundreds of thousands of systems to hundreds of thousands of users.

[bhilgenkamp]

I can't compare Vegas to FCP because I didn't know FCP was really a pro product, like for those in the industry.

I'll give you a tip - FCP is a pro tool in the industry. The only people I personally know who use Vegas are hobbyists and wedding videographers.

If it works for you, then great. To each his own.

[bhilgenkamp]

By refocusing FCP X. to the pro-sumer market, it will give them the opportunity to sell hundreds of thousands of systems to hundreds of thousands of users.

Exactly. Apple is not a software company - they develop software to sell the hardware. They'll go wherever the money is (unfortunately).

[JimmyS]

Yes sir. Capitalism at its finest.

[budwzr]

The only people I personally know who use Vegas are hobbyists and wedding videographers. If it works for you, then great. To each his own.

That's probably because editors working in your environment don't do much, and don't need anything like Vegas. You probably don't know anyone that uses Blender or Maya either.

Hahaha, I'll bet you've never done, or needed to do, anything but fast cuts, color correction, and render. And somehow that equals "pro". Hahaha.

These "oldtimers" sitting around getting a fat paycheck for work that a teenager can do now, their days are numbered.

It's a whole new world of sRGB, the old 60i broadcast NTSC crap is going, going, gone.

[edDV]

I can't compare Vegas to FCP because I didn't know FCP was really a pro product, like for those in the industry.

I'll give you a tip - FCP is a pro tool in the industry. The only people I personally know who use Vegas are hobbyists and wedding videographers.

If it works for you, then great. To each his own.

All depends. I mostly know the "industry".

Edit software must fit the workflow.

[budwzr]

This Apple guy really irritates me, so I'm going to take it out on the next ten Appleheads I run across. Mwahahaha!!! Hell, the NEXT 20!!!

It's gonna be a "Whack-a-Mole" fiesta around here. Gotta get them back in their own forum.

[poisondeathray]

You guys are hilarious getting all worked up over software LOL

[JimmyS]

This Apple guy really irritates me, so I'm going to take it out on the next ten Appleheads I run across. Mwahahaha!!! Hell, the NEXT 20!!!

It's gonna be a "Whack-a-Mole" fiesta around here. Gotta get them back in their own forum.

Sounds like you just can' t handle someone who actually knows what their talking about, and is doing it professionally.
And, I don't mean me. I just regard myself as an student of the craft, trying to learn whatever I can.

[budwzr]

who actually knows what their talking about, and is doing it professionally.

Umm...did you mean "they're"?

[budwzr]

You guys are hilarious getting all worked up over software LOL

[Attachment 9961 - Click to enlarge]

Hahaha, did you make that? Gimme a damn sword!

[JimmyS]

I don't want no damn sword. Hand me that uzi.

[poisondeathray]

Hahaha, did you make that? Gimme a damn sword!

I don't want no damn sword. Hand me that uzi.

Hahaha you can feel the escalating tension here

[edDV]

Apple's pricing of FCP X puts them head to head with Sony Vegas Pro at the prosumer/independent pro level. But Apple's lack of support for Blu-Ray makes the intended positioning less clear. Vegas Pro has a full set of tools for DVD, Blu-Ray and web publishing. The intended end product of FCP X is not well defined. It is a partial solution.

AVID Media Composer remains embedded in unionized Hollywood workflow. Adobe remains tied to the publishing/corporate media model. Vegas Pro has been targeted at the one man band with a full set of tools to get the audio/video/distribution job done at a reasonable price. Just add Photoshop or After Effects as needed.

The value of FCP in the past was a standardized product and operator. You could buy a system at an Apple store, hire a freelance certified FCP editor and get to work. As a manager/producer you knew what to expect. I'm not sure this concept works with FCP X.

[bhilgenkamp]

This Apple guy really irritates me

Am I the Apple guy?

That's probably because editors working in your environment don't do much, and don't need anything like Vegas. You probably don't know anyone that uses Blender or Maya either.

We haven't ever needed Vegas. Between Motion and After Effects there just hasn't been a need here.
One of our editors is very experienced in Blender.

Hahaha, I'll bet you've never done, or needed to do, anything but fast cuts, color correction, and render. And somehow that equals "pro". Hahaha.

Lol I wish that were true. It sure would make the projects go out the door faster!

These "oldtimers" sitting around getting a fat paycheck for work that a teenager can do now, their days are numbered.

Actually, I'm not old. I don't get a fat paycheck. If you want a skateboarding video or some video slideshow then yeah, call a teenager. If you want a properly produced video, then you call the pros. Try this: Let's say I have an Indy car. Does that make me a race car driver? No, that just means I have the tools to become one. Just because someone has access to some nice software doesn't mean they're gonna know what to do with it.

It's a whole new world of sRGB, the old 60i broadcast NTSC crap is going, going, gone.

Thank God.

But Apple's lack of support for Blu-Ray makes the intended positioning less clear.

This is one of the main reasons we're incorporating more Adobe products in our workflow. Some clients demand Blu-ray, and Apple just won't deliver on a product to make that happen.

[budwzr]

The final victory is achieved by my mini-clone.

[bhilgenkamp]

Wow... I'm assuming that was made in Vegas? lol.... Yeah I'll just stick with FCP.

[bhilgenkamp]

Also, I think Motion's optical flow feature is something you could use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lENvzXa6k4

[poisondeathray]

Apple's pricing of FCP X puts them head to head with Sony Vegas Pro at the prosumer/independent pro level. But Apple's lack of support for Blu-Ray makes the intended positioning less clear. Vegas Pro has a full set of tools for DVD, Blu-Ray and web publishing. The intended end product of FCP X is not well defined. It is a partial solution.

AVID Media Composer remains embedded in unionized Hollywood workflow. Adobe remains tied to the publishing/corporate media model. Vegas Pro has been targeted at the one man band with a full set of tools to get the audio/video/distribution job done at a reasonable price. Just add Photoshop or After Effects as needed.

The value of FCP in the past was a standardized product and operator. You could buy a system at an Apple store, hire a freelance certified FCP editor and get to work. As a manager/producer you knew what to expect. I'm not sure this concept works with FCP X.

And those are some reasons why many pros are switching to Adobe. Many of the ex-FCP 7 people I know have already made that switch

Unlike Apple, who signalled they've abandoned the "pro" market with FCP X, Adobe is a software company. Adobe is committed to software and the suite runs on both PC and Mac so there is no additional OS switching costs

Adobe lowered their bundle pricing by 50% right around the time of the FCP X release. If someone was already planning to purchase Photoshop and AE separately for ~$700 and $1000 anyways (plus the price of a NLE), why not get the Production Suite ~$800 which includes Premiere, Photoshop, AE, Illustrator, Flash, Audition, Bridge, Adobe Media Encoder and a few other titles. It's a "no brainer" decision whether you are a production studio manager or a 1 man show. Photoshop is the gold standard for image processing and AE is the gold standard for non 3D motion graphics

Soccer moms are just fine with imovie or Windows Movie Maker. FCP X is the black sheep.

No , I don't work for Adobe, It just makes sense

[budwzr]

Wow... I'm assuming that was made in Vegas? lol.... Yeah I'll just stick with FCP.

Hahaha, I don't know how to make those fakkakta animated GIFs anymore. That PDR did that on purpose to keep me from reusing it.

[budwzr]

Also, I think Motion's optical flow feature is something you could use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lENvzXa6k4

Yeah, I realize there are programs that interpolate frames, rather than blend, and Vegas does only blends.

But Vegas DOES do:

Convolves
Bump Map
Height Map
Interpolated motion (32 bit precision) on generated vector graphics
Color channel swapping to get a tighter chroma key

And a whole lot more than FCP.

[budwzr]

why not get the Production Suite ~$800 which includes Premiere, Photoshop, AE, Illustrator, Flash, Audition, Bridge, Adobe Media Encoder and a few other titles.

Where do you get that deal?

[JimmyS]

Hahaha, did you make that? Gimme a damn sword!

I don't want no damn sword. Hand me that uzi.

[Attachment 9962 - Click to enlarge]


Hahaha you can feel the escalating tension here

Poison.. That is fantastic. (where'd the little guys go?)