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  1. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    have a progressive Pal retail dvd of an American movie (no Ntsc release). I slowed the A/V down in Avisynth - assumefps(23.976,true), but apparently the Pal audio had the correct pitch already. So I needed to change the audio length without changing the pitch. This can be done with wave editors (or using BeSweet/BeLight 25>23.76) by changing the tempo. But changing tempo does slow down the audio and is noticeable in music.
    Is there any other audio solution, aside from some kind of re-recording?

    I know I could keep the original audio by keeping the 25 fps video and adding pulldown. As I already have the video converted to Ntsc, thought I'd look into audio solutions.
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  2. Audacity can change the length without changing the pitch.
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  3. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I know I could keep the original audio by keeping the 25 fps video and adding pulldown. As I already have the video converted to Ntsc, thought I'd look into audio solutions.
    You could undo the 'AssumeFPS(23.976)' and the standard pulldown by running the MPV/M2V through DGPulldown again, this time set for 25->29.97. Then you can use the original audio untouched. I'm assuming you're reencoding for another DVD.

    ...but apparently the Pal audio had the correct pitch already.
    How do you know that? Do you have perfect pitch?
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  4. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Jagabo: Audacity was one of the wave editors I tried. It's specifically the "Change tempo" effect which will change length with same pitch - unless there's another option you mean?

    Manono: I usually notice voice pitch issues - I didnt in the case because I wasnt familiar with the actors. However, I collect soundtracks, and sent the dvd to a musician soundtrack friend who wanted a copy. He noticed the pitch immediately (I thought he just had a good memory for music). I then double-checked by comparing it to the cd soundtrack.

    I was hoping for an audio solution, and only re-encode the video as a last resort. The DGPulldown method 25>29.97 is what I meant to convey when I said I could just keep the 25 fps and apply pulldown.

    Thanks anyways.
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  5. Audacity has both change speed without changing pitch, and change pitch without changing speed. And of course, change speed and pitch.
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  6. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    ...and only re-encode the video as a last resort.
    The method I suggested doesn't involve reencoding the video, but only adjusting the speed by running the already encoded M2V/MPV through DGPulldown again.
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  7. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    jagabo, as far as I can tell, Audacity can change the speed/keep pitch of audio only by changing the tempo (which is the name of the effect). This necessarily changes the music to be slower (longer runtime), and it is noticeable compared to the music speed on the cd. I dont see any other way around this. If you're referring to another effect, can you specify?

    only adjusting the speed by running the already encoded M2V/MPV
    so the original Pal 25 fps video and adding pulldown.
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  8. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    jagabo, as far as I can tell, Audacity can change the speed/keep pitch of audio only by changing the tempo (which is the name of the effect). This necessarily changes the music to be slower (longer runtime), and it is noticeable compared to the music speed on the cd. I dont see any other way around this.
    That's what you said you wanted.

    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I needed to change the audio length without changing the pitch.
    How do you expect to change the length of the entire soundtrack without also changing the length (tempo) of the music?

    Maybe your real problem is that you have two different cuts of the movie.
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  9. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    so the original Pal 25 fps video and adding pulldown.
    For the third time now, no. Take either the reencoded 23.976fps MPV or the reencoded 23.976fps M2V with the standard 3:2 pulldown added. Run one of those through DGPulldown, with DGPulldown set for 'Custom' and 25->29.97fps.
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  10. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    How do you expect to change the length of the entire soundtrack without also changing the length (tempo) of the music?
    as i wrote in my first post: "But changing tempo does slow down the audio and is noticeable in music.
    Is there any other audio solution, aside from some kind of re-recording?"

    if I'm using my Ntsc re-encode (which is 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown), I am confused about setting DGPulldown 25->29.97. I thought that setting was just to make a Pal video Ntsc compatible (and doesnt change the speed of the video).
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  11. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    if I'm using my Ntsc re-encode (which is 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown), I am confused about setting DGPulldown 25->29.97. I thought that setting was just to make a Pal video Ntsc compatible (and doesnt change the speed of the video).
    If your 'source' is 25fps, then using 25->29.97fps doesn't change the length or speed. If, as in your case, the 'source' is 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown to output interlaced 29.97fps, then using DGPulldown set for 25->29.97fps does change the length and the speed. It'll bring it back to the length of the original audio and of the original PAL DVD video.
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    25 > 29.97 via pulldown is an alternative method of Pal > NTSC. Neither the audio nor video change speed.
    You should try it to see if is acceptable .
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  13. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    manono, it worked. But how? I thought the program would use the original framerate regardless of the "25" in the setting (treat it as 23.976>29.97). Btw, I used "Custom" as suggested but would ticking the existing 25->29.97 setting do the same thing?
    Does original framerate not matter in this instance, and it's the combination setting "25->29.97" which is directing the dvd player to treat the video as if it were 25 fps with pulldown?
    I muxed the file with the original Pal audio, and it syncs fine. While that makes sense on one level, also seems odd since the video is really 23.976 (Gspot indidates this) - seems like it should use the Ntsc audio, and be "sped up" when the dvd player is outputting.
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  14. A video is just a bunch of frames. By using different settings in DgPulldown you are telling the player how many times to duplicate frames (done at the field level). For example, if you have 1000 frames at 25 fps the video will last for 40 seconds. If you duplicate every frame and play it back at the same 25 fps the video will last for 80 seconds. The DVD player doesn't know anything about the underlying frame rate of the video. All it knows it to play the video at 29.97 fps (literally, 59.94 fields per second) after pulldown.
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  15. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    I think I understand. I just thought the actual framerate still mattered. I guess it's like serving suggestions on a Pie - you can still treat it like a whole pie and slice it differently.

    Along the same lines as manono's suggestion - for Pal videos which I do want to slow down - what if I ran the Pal 25 fps video thru DGPulldown with the setting "23.976->29.97" (and mux with slowed-down audio)? Would that slow the video down during playback? If that would work, it's too bad there isnt a quick way of altering the framesize (Pal to Ntsc) without reencoding.
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  16. Yes, you could have used the already existing 25->29.97fps preset. I forgot about that when suggesting you use the custom setting. Both will do the same thing.

    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    Along the same lines as manono's suggestion - for Pal videos which I do want to slow down - what if I ran the Pal 25 fps video thru DGPulldown with the setting "23.976->29.97" (and mux with slowed-down audio)? Would that slow the video down during playback?
    Yes, that'll work also to restore the video to its 'original' film speed and the audio to its correct speed (and usually pitch also).
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