.TS x .MTS - question please

[Zetti]

Hi all,

OK, this may be a silly question, but could someone please explain in a few words the main differences between .TS (TV broadcast) and .MTS (created by AVCHD cameras) ?

I've taken a look at wikipedia and this site`s glossary, as far as I've understood - if I'm not wrong..- the .TS contains, in general, MPEG-2 video, while . MTS contains AVCHD (H264) video (camera).

Please, am I right ?

Considering that both containers contain HD 1920 x 1080i video, when loading them (TS or MTS) in an editing software, would the "project settings" change according to the file (TS or MTS) ? Or would the "project settings" be the same (1920 x 1080i), regardless the file extension ?

When editing a TS file recorded from TV broadcast for example to cut out commercial breaks, how should I set my editing software to avoid reencoding when merging the pieces in a later step ?

Would Adobe CS4 do it without reencoding ? Video Redo ?

Thanks, at some point I understood well the now outdated DVD standard, buy when it comes to Blu-Ray authoring, I am a total newbie.

Reagrds,

Zetti

[chicken264]

I don't think there is practical difference between ts, mts, m2ts and m2t. I am not sure about technical details.

When I joined mts (avchd) files files panasonic hd cam with tsmuser, it produced ts file and I had no problem.
When i tried ulead it always wanted to create m2t, renaming to mts and ts is not a problem.

VideoRedo will edit whithout re encode. In fact that's only program worked like charm for me for simple edits.
Nero also worked but difficult to use.

ulead is supposed to work (smart rendering), it appears working and generates a file. Many times output will not play. sometimes remuxing fix the problems and sometimes not.

All other softeare always re encode, which i don't like as I don't have lot of cpu power. I discovered easy way of encode just upload to youtube and download the mp4 file few hours later.

[edDV]

Hi all,

OK, this may be a silly question, but could someone please explain in a few words the main differences between .TS (TV broadcast) and .MTS (created by AVCHD cameras) ?

I've taken a look at wikipedia and this site`s glossary, as far as I've understood - if I'm not wrong..- the .TS contains, in general, MPEG-2 video, while . MTS contains AVCHD (H264) video (camera).

Please, am I right ?

TS, MTS, M2T etc are transport stream containers that can hold one to many video/audio streams. Codecs can vary for each stream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG_transport_stream

ATSC broadcast transport streams can contain several programs (aka subchannels). Your tuner separates a single video/audio pair from the broadcast stream (e.g. channel 4.2). Currently ATSC uses MPeg2 in all subchannels but only the primary channel needs to be MPeg2.

HDV camcorder files consist of one MPeg2 video/audio stream in a TS wrapper. Many editors will refuse MPeg2 transport streams. In those cases you need to remux the container into a normal mpg wrapper. A simple program to do this is HDTVtoMPeg2. Another is TSmuxer. HDTVtoMPeg2 will also allow you to edit out commercials without recode. The main limitation is it can only cut on I frames (half second accuracy).

Blu-Ray and AVCHD camcorders use a random access version of the TS container called m2ts. Blu-Ray can use MPeg2, h.264 or VC-1 video codecs. AVCHD camcorders use h.264+AC3 audio.

[edDV]

Considering that both containers contain HD 1920 x 1080i video, when loading them (TS or MTS) in an editing software, would the "project settings" change according to the file (TS or MTS) ? Or would the "project settings" be the same (1920 x 1080i), regardless the file extension ?

When editing a TS file recorded from TV broadcast for example to cut out commercial breaks, how should I set my editing software to avoid reencoding when merging the pieces in a later step ?

Would Adobe CS4 do it without reencoding ? Video Redo ?

As explained above, you may need to change the container to get editors to accept the file. Most edit software will be compatible with MPeg2 but only a few will "smart render*" resulting in no re-encode. One that does is Sony Vegas. To get smart render to work, the source, project and export properties must match. I'm not sure if Premiere CS4 can be set to smart render (no-recode).

Currently there are no editors that will smart render h.264. Most all will re-encode all frames. The only way to avoid re-encode with h.264 is to cut on I frames (half second accuracy).

Edit software like Premiere, Final Cut and Vegas have generic project settings and format specific settings (e.g. DV, HDV, XDCAM-EX or AVCHD). In the format specific project settings, the container is assumed (e.g. TS for HDV, MXF for XDCAM-EX or m2ts for AVCHD).


* Frame accurate "smart render" cuts will result in GOPs from the source file to be copied as is to the export file except the GOP containing the edit point. That GOP plus any others impacted by filters, must be re-encoded.

[Zetti]

Thanks edDV and Chicken for replying;

Zetti

[edDV]

Thanks edDV and Chicken for replying;

Zetti

No questions?

[Zetti]

Thanks edDV and Chicken for replying;

Zetti

No questions?

Thanks edDV,

Yes, I have questions ! Please, allow me sometime to re-read your comments, read some more references and I'll return to this forum.

I am now planning on purchasing a capture card and will soon be recording ATSC broadcasts, initially through Bell (cable provider) and later from OTA broadcasts (haven`t bought an antenna yet).

I have a AVCHD camera and basically I need to know the differences between the two things: ATSC TV recording X my camera; and how to edit them properly in CS4.

THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR WONDERFUL SUPPORT,

Zetti

[edDV]

Make sure your HD tuner supports both ATSC (off air) and clearQAM (off cable).

I'm not familiar with how clearQAM is handled by Bell Canada. Here the local stations and some others are available in HD without need for a cable box.

ATSC is MPeg2 in a linear ts container (TS, MTS, M2T).

AVCHD is h.264 in a random access m2ts container.

If I had Premiere Pro CS4 here I would lead you through it. Maybe others will.

[Zetti]

Make sure your HD tuner supports both ATSC (off air) and clearQAM (off cable).

I'm not familiar with how clearQAM is handled by Bell Canada. Here the local stations and some others are available in HD without need for a cable box.

ATSC is MPeg2 in a linear ts container (TS, MTS, M2T).

AVCHD is h.264 in a random access m2ts container.

If I had Premiere Pro CS4 here I would lead you through it. Maybe others will.

Hi edDV and all,

Please find attached two screen captures of PP "project settings", here I have to choose the settings that match my source material. Please, which would be the proper choices to

1) edit movies made with my Canon AVCHD camera ?

2) ATSC broadcasts (.TS files) ?

I believe that, for my home movies, I must choose AVCHD -> 1080i -> 60i Anamorphic, please am I right ?

For TS files, I may choose HDV 1080i30 (60i), am I right ?

Thanks a lot,

Zetti

[edDV]

For AVCHD it depends on which mode you used in your camcorder.

[edDV]

For ATSC recordings, it depends which format the TV station uses. There are 19 formats and several variations on the 19 but in the real world, only three are used but this may change after 2012.

1920x1080 60i MPeg2, upper field first (square pixels)
1280x720 60p MPeg2, upper field first (square pixels)
704x480 60i MPeg2, upper field first (non-square pixels PAR - 0.9091)

All use AC3 audio either 2.0 stereo or 5.1 surround.

I don't see any presets in the project list you displayed. You will need to make custom templates.

Premiere doesn't claim TS container compatibility except for HDV so you might start with HDV and modify to the parameters above. If that doesn't work, use HDTVtoMPeg2 or TSMuxer to change container to mpg. Audio may need to be converted to two or six PCM channel layers.


Note that Adobe specifically does NOT support direct import of broadcast, DVD or Blu-Ray media. They design for camcorder import.

[Zetti]

For ATSC recordings, it depends which format the TV station uses. There are 19 formats and several variations on the 19 but in the real world, only three are used but this may change after 2012.

1920x1080 60i MPeg2, upper field first (square pixels)
1280x720 60p MPeg2, upper field first (square pixels)
704x480 60i MPeg2, upper field first (non-square pixels PAR - 0.9091)

All use AC3 audio either 2.0 stereo or 5.1 surround.

I don't see any presets in the project list you displayed. You will need to make custom templates.

Premiere doesn't claim TS container compatibility except for HDV so you might start with HDV and modify to the parameters above. If that doesn't work, use HDTVtoMPeg2 or TSMuxer to change container to mpg. Audio may need to be converted to two or six PCM channel layers.


Note that Adobe specifically does NOT support direct import of broadcast, DVD or Blu-Ray media. They design for camcorder import.

Thanks a lot !!

Zetti

[budwzr]

Zetti, instead of trying to match media to your project, you should decide what project setting is most versatile, and will give you consistent results.

720p30 is the place to be when it comes to iPad and YouTube, and most media players and TVs support it. In the rare case you can always burn a DVD for Gramms from that format too.

720p is that "middle ground" between DVD and "Full HD".

The stuff recorded from DTV is interlaced, and you can save a lot of disc space by converting to 720p too. A good PVR can re-encode it automatically.




[Attachment 9120 - Click to enlarge]

[Zetti]

Zetti, instead of trying to match media to your project, you should decide what project setting is most versatile, and will give you consistent results.

720p30 is the place to be when it comes to iPad and YouTube, and most media players and TVs support it. In the rare case you can always burn a DVD for Gramms from that format too.

720p is that "middle ground" between DVD and "Full HD".

The stuff recorded from DTV is interlaced, and you can save a lot of disc space by converting to 720p too. A good PVR can re-encode it automatically.




[Attachment 9120 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks for helping !

Zetti