Star Trek: TNG comes to Blu-ray - Official

[intracube]

The Next Generation Blu-rays Launch in 2012

"Star Trek: The Next Generation will be released in high-definition Blu-ray, starting in January with a sampler of several popular episodes, followed by a season-one set to be released later on in 2012, and subsequent seasons beaming down after that."
http://www.startrek.com/article/the-next-generation-blu-rays-launch-in-2012

It's going to be interesting to see how they redo the VFX, and whether they use the film elements of the model ships or recreate them in 3D as they did for TOS.

There's no mention of DS9 or Voyager, but even if they got the go ahead at some point, the VFX shots might be more of a challenge as they relied more heavily on CGI, which would need to be re-rendered in HD.

[jman98]

Thanks for the link. I mentioned this possibility in a somewhat related thread on Farscape and its conversion to BluRay earlier this week. Paramount had not greenlighted the project, so you've got current info that it's on instead of my post saying it was basically under test but would likely be approved.

TOS (The Original Series) and The Next Generation are Paramount's most valuable Star Trek franchises. Each version of Trek that followed was perceived by many to be inferior to what came before it. The rumor in Star Trek fandom is that Paramount won't spend the money to redo the special effects for DS9 and Voyager to put them on BluRay. Enterprise was shot in HD from the beginning though so there's nothing stopping a BluRay release except Paramount's current unwillingness to do one. Paramount may just be waiting on Enterprise for more time to pass since its final episode before putting it out in BluRay.

[intracube]

TOS (The Original Series) and The Next Generation are Paramount's most valuable Star Trek franchises. Each version of Trek that followed was perceived by many to be inferior to what came before it. The rumor in Star Trek fandom is that Paramount won't spend the money to redo the special effects for DS9 and Voyager to put them on BluRay.

If releasing the Original Series and Next Gen on Blu-ray is successful, hopefully it will encourage Paramount to do the same with Voyager/DS9.

I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when Paramount discussed the finances of remastering the Original Series and the viability of doing the same to TNG. TOS on Blu-ray must have made a profit, or at least be projected to in the near future in order for them to greenlight the first season of TNG.

I only got one season of TNG on DVD as IMO the quality wasn't enough of a jump up to justify the expense. But I can see myself getting the whole series on Blu-ray.

I believe there was a small amount of footage from TNG which made it into ST: Generations. This shot looks very much like a piece of stock footage used regularly during TNG's run. If I'm right, the model stands up surprisingly well in HD. Although I remember reading there were at least 3 different sized Enterprise models used on the show with varying levels of detail.

Also, I doubt DS9/Voy will appear on Blu-ray for at least 5 years, and the cost of remastering the VFX by then might have dropped considerably.

[deadrats]

i'll probably pick up the sampler and if the quality is impressive and the cost of each season is reasonable i may actually pick it up, a bit at a time.

[yoda313]

Well they must be making SOME money on it. Remember TOS originally got an HD-DVD release. THen they went to Bluray.

[Browncoat]

I wonder if there is any possibility of them making it 16:9?

[yoda313]

I wonder if there is any possibility of them making it 16:9?

OAR fans here would tear that comment apart.

As far as I know it was filmed in 4:3 so your talking about stretching and distorting it.

IMO leave it OAR and forget about it.

[johns0]

I wonder if there is any possibility of them making it 16:9?

OAR fans here would tear that comment apart.

As far as I know it was filmed in 4:3 so your talking about stretching and distorting it.

IMO leave it OAR and forget about it.

I'm a fan and I would like to see a 16:9 version if somehow they could digitize the sides and make it look real.

[Noahtuck]

I wonder if there is any possibility of them making it 16:9?

OAR fans here would tear that comment apart.

As far as I know it was filmed in 4:3 so your talking about stretching and distorting it.

IMO leave it OAR and forget about it.

Yep, filmed in 4:3, and you would not have to stretch and distort it, they could just crop off the top and bottom, as they have done to oh so many films

[Noahtuck]

Another thing, has anyone heard if they plan on doing DS9 or Voyager on bluray ?

Now that i have finally started moving into the HD era


I would LOVE to see B5 on bluray!!!

[NJRoadfan]

Well they must be making SOME money on it. Remember TOS originally got an HD-DVD release. THen they went to Bluray.

CBS Television did state that the remastered TNG episodes will be sold to TV stations for syndication. TNG was always a profit maker in syndication even in SD. The remaster is needed, particularly for the first two seasons. The current tape masters are of a lower quality (noticeably more blurry even on a standard CRT) and the color seems to be off compared to the later seasons.

[intracube]

I wonder if there is any possibility of them making it 16:9?

I was think about that too. I'd have a preference for watching it in 4:3 but wouldn't mind if a 16:9 version was also avaiable*. Would be annoyed if it's only released as an HD version in 16:9 though...

*A lot depends on how far the picture on the 35mm neg extends beyond the 4:3 area used for the existing video transfer. Probably not a great deal, but maybe enough to make a reasonable 16:9 version.

This page gives some insight:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/ent_vs_tng.htm

I disagree with the comments regarding the aspect ratio inconsistencies - 1.78 vs 1.68 and distortion etc. They haven't taken into account the 720px vs 702px active image width of digitised SD video.

There's also a thin black bar at the bottom of the 16:9 examples which could be throwing the AR off further. Might be related to 1920x1080, 1920x1088, mod16, incorrect resize etc...

There's also an assumption that the proportions of the older 4:3 transfer are correct...

[dragonkeeper]

I would LOVE to see B5 on bluray!!!

Here, here. I second that. It's a shame the spin-offs sucked.

[CubDukat]

The Next Generation Blu-rays Launch in 2012

"Star Trek: The Next Generation will be released in high-definition Blu-ray, starting in January with a sampler of several popular episodes, followed by a season-one set to be released later on in 2012, and subsequent seasons beaming down after that."
http://www.startrek.com/article/the-next-generation-blu-rays-launch-in-2012

It's going to be interesting to see how they redo the VFX, and whether they use the film elements of the model ships or recreate them in 3D as they did for TOS.

There's no mention of DS9 or Voyager, but even if they got the go ahead at some point, the VFX shots might be more of a challenge as they relied more heavily on CGI, which would need to be re-rendered in HD.

When they made the announcement about the TNG sampler, they said that they were going back to the individual film elements, and any paintbox-type work would be redone at HD resolutions. They realized early-on that up-rezzing and/or large-scale CGI recreation was unacceptable, especially considering the lackluster work they did on the TOS remasters.

Presumably most of DS9 will use the same technique, but the latter half of the show's run and all of Voyager's run will most likely have all-new CGI. Their CGI was done by Foundation Imaging, the same company that worked on Babylon 5 and the director's cut of the first Star Trek movie. They went out of business shortly after finishing ST:TMP, and the original scene data was either lost and/or destroyed.

That's also why B5 will probably never see a Blu-Ray release.

[intracube]

When they made the announcement about the TNG sampler, they said that they were going back to the individual film elements, and any paintbox-type work would be redone at HD resolutions. They realized early-on that up-rezzing and/or large-scale CGI recreation was unacceptable, especially considering the lackluster work they did on the TOS remasters.

I still haven't properly seen the re-mastered TOS episodes. Looking at the stills and a few of the example clips on YT, part of the problem is the new VFX aren't in keeping with the optical effects of the time. Original VFX and CGI replacement stills here:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=86&page=1

With regard to details and textures, the CGI Enterprise looks good IMO. But the lighting looks artificial (a common limitation of CGI). It looks like a CGI ship, as opposed to a model (or a real ship). It'd be interesting to know what software they used to render it.

It looks like they might have used ambient occlusion in some of the shots.

Presumably most of DS9 will use the same technique, but the latter half of the show's run and all of Voyager's run will most likely have all-new CGI.

Some of Voyager's VFX sequences didn't look like CGI - the half dozen or so 'stock footage' ship fly pasts used throughout the shows run, and possibly some VFX shots in the first season. But yes, AIUI they quickly moved to CGI for all episode specific shots.

Their CGI was done by Foundation Imaging, the same company that worked on Babylon 5 and the director's cut of the first Star Trek movie. They went out of business shortly after finishing ST:TMP, and the original scene data was either lost and/or destroyed.

If true -

I would've thought the studios would insist VFX houses provide copies of the scene data as well as the finished sequences...

[jman98]

Presumably most of DS9 will use the same technique, but the latter half of the show's run and all of Voyager's run will most likely have all-new CGI. Their CGI was done by Foundation Imaging, the same company that worked on Babylon 5 and the director's cut of the first Star Trek movie. They went out of business shortly after finishing ST:TMP, and the original scene data was either lost and/or destroyed.

That's also why B5 will probably never see a Blu-Ray release.

ST:TMP was released in 1979 which is way before anything else you mentioned above, so that casts some doubt on your claim in my mind. Mind explaining how a company that was out of business in 1979, according to you, somehow worked years later on those TV shows?

[jman98]

I still haven't properly seen the re-mastered TOS episodes. Looking at the stills and a few of the example clips on YT, part of the problem is the new VFX aren't in keeping with the optical effects of the time:
Original:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x23hd/allouryesterdayshd0005.jpg
New:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x23hd/allouryesterdayshd0011.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=86&page=1

Your links don't work, by the way.

The point of re-doing the effects was to make them look better. Keeping them in the same look as optical effects of the time was never the intention. If you don't agree with that decision or don't like it that's fine. Do note that the BluRays give you a chance to see the original episodes in HD with the original special effects if you wish to see them that way.

[intracube]

ST:TMP was released in 1979 which is way before anything else you mentioned above, so that casts some doubt on your claim in my mind. Mind explaining how a company that was out of business in 1979, according to you, somehow worked years later on those TV shows?

He probably means Enterprise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_Imaging
"The company was dissolved after work on season one of Star Trek: Enterprise had been completed"

[CubDukat]

ST:TMP was released in 1979 which is way before anything else you mentioned above, so that casts some doubt on your claim in my mind. Mind explaining how a company that was out of business in 1979, according to you, somehow worked years later on those TV shows?

He probably means Enterprise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_Imaging
"The company was dissolved after work on season one of Star Trek: Enterprise had been completed"

Actually, I was referring to the director's cut of ST:TMP. Foundation Imaging was hired on by Paramount and the late Robert Wise to assist him in creating the version of the film he had wanted to release in 1979, had Paramount not rushed him into production. THAT version was completed around 2001 or so, and was released to DVD. Unfortunately, Foundation also went out of business shortly after that (that was also around the time "Star Trek: Enterprise's" first season ended as well), and no one thought to preserve the scene and model data so that they could do an HD render later on if they chose.

That's why the original 1979 theatrical version is the only one available on Blu-Ray. And given the uninspiring job CBS Digital did with the remastered TOS, they probably wouldn't dare redo Foundation's footage.

[CubDukat]

When they made the announcement about the TNG sampler, they said that they were going back to the individual film elements, and any paintbox-type work would be redone at HD resolutions. They realized early-on that up-rezzing and/or large-scale CGI recreation was unacceptable, especially considering the lackluster work they did on the TOS remasters.

I still haven't properly seen the re-mastered TOS episodes. Looking at the stills and a few of the example clips on YT, part of the problem is the new VFX aren't in keeping with the optical effects of the time:
Original:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x23hd/allouryesterdayshd0005.jpg
New:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x23hd/allouryesterdayshd0011.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=86&page=1

With regard to details and textures, the CGI Enterprise looks good IMO. But the lighting looks artificial (a common limitation of CGI). It looks like a CGI ship, as opposed to a model (or a real ship). It'd be interesting to know what software they used to render it.

It looks like they might have used ambient occlusion in some of the shots.

Presumably most of DS9 will use the same technique, but the latter half of the show's run and all of Voyager's run will most likely have all-new CGI.

Some of Voyager's VFX sequences didn't look like CGI - the half dozen or so 'stock footage' ship fly pasts used throughout the shows run, and possibly some VFX shots in the first season. But yes, AIUI they quickly moved to CGI for all episode specific shots.

Their CGI was done by Foundation Imaging, the same company that worked on Babylon 5 and the director's cut of the first Star Trek movie. They went out of business shortly after finishing ST:TMP, and the original scene data was either lost and/or destroyed.

If true -

I would've thought the studios would insist VFX houses provide copies of the scene data as well as the finished sequences...

In the case of B5, that's exactly what Warner Bros. did. They didn't want the scene and/or model data falling into the hands of zealous fans. Unfortunately, they either lost it or deliberately destroyed it.

The studio taking charge of the scene data was actually very rare at the time, and may actually have been at J. Michael Strazynski's insistence, since he was already kinda feeling ripped off because Paramount had allegedly stole his idea and made it into DS9 (but that's a different story).

Every effects house to work on B5 has been required to surrender their model data to Warner Bros., and it's still pretty rare for that kind of agreement to be in place.

[intracube]

Original:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x23hd/allouryesterdayshd0005.jpg
New:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x23hd/allouryesterdayshd0011.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=86&page=1

Your links don't work, by the way.

Yes, looks like that site doesn't like hotlinking. When I tried the links they worked fine - probably because they were already in my browser cache. The last one should work though.

Here's a comparison of the opening titles.

original 4:3 version in blue.

and for a trip down down memory lane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0cqlqGOZ78&t=11m40s
12:13 - 12:28 is the re-scanned film from TNG, all other shots were filmed for "ENT: These Are the Voyages".

In the case of B5, that's exactly what Warner Bros. did. They didn't want the scene and/or model data falling into the hands of zealous fans. Unfortunately, they either lost it or deliberately destroyed it.

The powers that be showing a lack of foresight. No surprise there

[intracube]

In case anyone's missed it, a second TNG HD trailer has appeared which has footage from Encounter at Farpoint, Sins of the Father & The Inner Light.

Video and stills here:
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/

All I can say is... whoooaahhh

Check out the people composited into the matte painting @ 1:45!

It's also been confirmed that the Bluray will be in 4:3. If they're only going to release one version, I'm glad they made that decision. But I guess it's possible a 16:9 version might appear on TV networks at some point.

[Farscape1]

looks like i'll have to start selling drugs again. bought the VHS set, bought the DVD set and will buy the blu-ray set.

[davexnet]

It's interesting to see how some effort has gone into color correction. Some of the changes are dramatic.
Why was the color was so poor to begin with? I assume the film was OK; something to do with the transfer to NTSC?

For example:
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/compare/farpoints2_hd.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/compare/farpoints2_sd.jpg

[intracube]

It's interesting to see how some effort has gone into color correction. Some of the changes are dramatic.
Why was the color was so poor to begin with? I assume the film was OK; something to do with the transfer to NTSC?

For example:
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/compare/farpoints2_hd.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/compare/farpoints2_sd.jpg

It might have been an artistic decision rather than a fault with the original video transfer.

The way I read the scene was that Q had Picard in a purgatory like place for judgement; a hot, smoky atmosphere watched by the damned. Hypothetically, if there were a lot of red lights on set, the original SD version might be more accurate, although the image still looks too magenta.

As a comparison:

The top right image has had a gamma adjustment of the red channel, the green/blue highlights lifed and the hue/saturation tweaked. I don't think this is anything that couldn't have been done with professional video equipment in the 1980s.

Point being, if they wanted the colours to look colder, they could have probably done it.

I do prefer the colour of the HD version of that scene though. Also the shots of the bridge look startlingly natural.

[davexnet]

It could be an artistic interpretation in that example; trouble is, there are too many other places - just basic shots
around the Enterprise, where the color looks poor and murky.

I've often seen on various shows where the color of the whole shot takes on the predominant color of the scene.
which I thought may have been a technical limitation (NTSC color bandwidth?) - but then I've seen other SD films
and TV shows where a variety of colors are on the screen at the same time and it all looks true to life.
The average show appears, to my eyes, somewhere between the two extremes.

I grew up in England and came to the USA in my twenties and I've always been a bit sensitive to the "look"
of PAL Vs. NTSC - perhaps that's why I noticed it.

"I do prefer the colour of the HD version of that scene though. Also the shots of the bridge look startlingly natural."
Likewise - the point of it looking natural is key.

[intracube]

It could be an artistic interpretation in that example; trouble is, there are too many other places - just basic shots
around the Enterprise, where the color looks poor and murky.

Yeah, the SD images look under saturated. Adjusting the saturation/hue/contrast helps narrow the gap:

left: original SD, middle: adjusted SD, right: HD
Don't know why the colours are so muted though. I'll have to dig out my S4 DVDs and see what they look like.
EDIT: S4 being the only season of TNG I own.

There's lots of different places where differences can creep in; Maybe different film stock between seasons/different telecine machines/calibration of equipment/artistic decisions/conversions to other TV systems (PAL) etc.

I grew up in England and came to the USA in my twenties and I've always been a bit sensitive to the "look"
of PAL Vs. NTSC - perhaps that's why I noticed it.

Yup, NTSC is/was known for it's colour rendering - 'Never Twice the Same Color'

[gll99]

I bought the Blu-ray TOS and TNG movies but I won't be buying the TNG series if it's 4:3. The picture might be clearer but frankly it would constantly irk me every time I watched to own anything called BR / HD which is in the 4:3 format.

[intracube]

I bought the Blu-ray TOS and TNG movies but I won't be buying the TNG series if it's 4:3. The picture might be clearer but frankly it would constantly irk me every time I watched to own anything called BR / HD which is in the 4:3 format.

So you only watch movies/shows that fill your 16:9 screen?

What about 2.39:1 movies with black bars at the top and bottom?

[NJRoadfan]

There's lots of different places where differences can creep in; Maybe different film stock between seasons/different telecine machines/calibration of equipment/artistic decisions/conversions to other TV systems (PAL) etc.

Different film stock was one reason the first two seasons look muddy and magenta. When Marvin Rush took over as principal cinematographer in the 3rd season he used more/better set lighting and better film.