x6 46" LED t.vs for lrg computer monitor..Eyefinity? would appreciate help

[networx]

Total noob here, but very appreciative of any help! Here's the deal, boss wanted x6 46 inch LED t.vs to be a glorified PC monitor. Not for gaming or anything, just kinda like day trader on steroids. He asked me to do it, so I talked to a A/V guy I know and he game me a list w/materials. He had suggested rather than buying PCI//e cards that it would be easier to buy external vid. cards. This is what I'm working with: a. 1 PC (8Gb mem.,1.5 TB drive 3.1 Ghz) b. (x5) USB to HDMI 2048x1152 external video adapter(x1HDMI on-board) c. x4 25' 24 guage HDMI cables d. 2 50' 24 guage HDMI cables e.x4 USB 2 USB connectors. x3 working great,practically shine, but x1 of the four is very much lighter than the other 3. Power issue, right? The problem is that I didn't know enough going into this, so at this point I just have to do what I have to do. I know now, that I at least should have gone Eyefinity before this option. Is this workable if I move the power supply from 300Mhz to let's say;7-800Mhz? Should I just skip all this nonsense and get 1 or 2 PCI cards? Man, any help would be greatly appreciated. D

[usually_quiet]

I have no experience building a setup for a six monitor array, but I still have some questions.

What are you using for an USB to HDMI converter. I've only seen one, the Diamond BizView. Are there others?

Second, even if all the TVs are the same model, sometimes two different kinds of LCD panels may be used even within the same model. TN panels don't look the same as IPS panels. Have you ruled this out as a possible cause for what you are seeing?

Third, which of the TVs is connected to the internal video card?

[networx]

They are USB to HDMI external video cards. USB powered. It's just an external video card.
All six panels are the same or at least their S/N's show they were manufactured the same place & same time.
All are connected this same set-up with one being connected to the onboard HDMI

[usually_quiet]

They are USB to HDMI external video cards. USB powered. It's just an external video card.
All six panels are the same or at least their S/N's show they were manufactured the same place & same time.
All are connected this same set-up with one being connected to the onboard HDMI

OK, what makes and models of external video cards are you using?

I'm not sure that being manufactured in the same place and on the same date is a guarantee that the panels used will be the same type in every unit. Perhaps somebody else who knows more about the inner workings of the "panel lottery" can address this. The two types of panels do look different. TN panels may look washed out compared to IPS panels, particularly when the TN panels are not viewed head on.

I take it the TV connected to the internal video card is not the one that looks different from the rest?

[networx]

They are Monoprice 2048 * 1152 external USB to DVI video cards.
The computer only has a 300 watt power supply and the manufacturer says it can only be 300 watt. Can I just get x 2 AMD firePro 2450 cards and x1 FSP X5 500 watt Booster? There has to be a way to do this. I've seen it before. Like I said, no gaming or 3D, just browsers and the occasional Word or Excel sheet. Anyone know how to accomplish this??

[networx]

It's not that they are different panels! I can switch the cards around and the lighter color moves from panel to panel with the card movement. It's not the card, it's the set-up. This set-up would work if they were just displays but not 46 inch t.v's.
Forget the external cards, I'm asking how can I accomplish my goal, with whatever product.

[usually_quiet]

They are Monoprice 2048 * 1152 external USB to DVI video cards.
The computer only has a 300 watt power supply and the manufacturer says it can only be 300 watt. Can I just get x 2 AMD firePro 2450 cards and x1 FSP X5 500 watt Booster? There has to be a way to do this. I've seen it before. Like I said, no gaming or 3D, just browsers and the occasional Word or Excel sheet. Anyone know how to accomplish this??

Sorry, I can't give you all the information you need.

I looked at the internal cards you want to use. There is a PCI-e x16 version and a PCI-e x1 version of the AMD FirePro 2450. A pair of them would cost about $500 and can only work for 2D applications, so I guess you had better be sure. These cards look like they were intended for just the kind of situation you are describing, but unfortunately I can't tell if you can use two of them together. Reading the user reviews at Newegg, it seems like they work better with Windows 7 than with earlier versions of Windows.

The AMD FirePro 2450 cards use 32W each, at maximum. Low-power video adapters don't normally require supplementary power. I looked at both versions and didn't see a 6-pin PCI-e power connector or a Molex connector to use with a booster PSU. If you must use them, then you will have to attempt it with just the 300W PSU.

From the 300W PSU restriction and your choice of low-profile AMD FirePro 2450s it looks like you are working with some kind of small form factor PC then. Things would be easier for you if you had the option to use a PC that accepts a standard ATX PSU.

[networx]

First of all, thanks for your help. The FSP x5 booster people told me that it would work with the Lenovo computer I have.
http://www.atxpowersupplies.com/500-Watt-Power-Supply-FSP-Booster-X5.php

Talked with the AMD people today and they say that those two cards will work, but it's easy for someone to tell you something over the phone! This thing is driving me nuts. I want to get it done and it be over.

Is there a better way? The USB external cards work great, but for only x3 of them. Is there a way to get more power to the USB bus?

How would a A/V guy do this project? Anyone? Someone make my day and I'll throw you a gift card. (If that offer is against any board rules, I apologize and will delete)

[usually_quiet]

First of all, thanks for your help. The FSP x5 booster people told me that it would work with the Lenovo computer I have.
http://www.atxpowersupplies.com/500-Watt-Power-Supply-FSP-Booster-X5.php

Talked with the AMD people today and they say that those two cards will work, but it's easy for someone to tell you something over the phone! This thing is driving me nuts. I want to get it done and it be over.

Is there a better way? The USB external cards work great, but for only x3 of them. Is there a way to get more power to the USB bus?

How would a A/V guy do this project? Anyone? Someone make my day and I'll throw you a gift card. (If that offer is against any board rules, I apologize and will delete)

The folks at FSP weren't lying to you. They probably just didn't realize the video cards you planned to use didn't have any connections to use with their supplementary PSU.

I looked at the FSP's product page in case I missed something, but there are no connections intended to supply power to the motherboard itself. The FSP x5 500W booster is indeed only intended to be an independent PSU for power-guzzling gamer video cards. The molex connection doesn't supply power either, as I thought. Instead, it connects to a molex output from the main PSU and acts as a power-on sensor. It isn't really a 500W psu either. Most retailers market it as a 450W PSU, because it can only supply 500W for short bursts, but supplies 450W sustained.

AMD might be right and two ATI FirePro 2450 cards will work fine. I would also be tempted to try a PCI-e X16 ATI FirePro 2450 Multi-View card in conjunction with 2 of the external video cards. I couldn't find the maximum wattage used by the external video cards listed at Monoprice, so I can't tell if two ATI FirePro 2450 cards would likely use less power than your 5 external video cards. The best thing would be to get a PC that can accept a higher voltage PSU so you have greater flexibility in configuring this project, but your employer probably leases everything from Lenovo.

If it turns out that I have helped you, make a donation in my honor to this website.

[networx]

I think that doing it without a mulitplexer is really hard. I think I'm just going upgrade the power supply to 750w and see if that helps push the usb vid. cards and go from there.
If it doesn't, what do you think about this....replace the HDMI cables w/50' VGA cables? It's just being used for desktop stuff, so no need for the HDMI, right? I can easily get multiple VGA output cards. Crap, I might just build a more suitable computer to handle this.

[redwudz]

USB is usually limited to 500ma per channel (1/2 amp.) That would be a max of about 3 amps with six channels used. At 5VDC, that would be about 25 watts, so not all that much. Some newer MBs have maybe 16 or so USB outputs, so I assume they are capable of supplying enough power.

I don't know that you would need a 750W power supply, but a 300W seems a bit weak these days. I use 500W PSs in most of my PCs.

I would probably stick to a digital signal for the monitors, HDMI or DVI instead of a analog VGA signal. I've ran VGA cables 50 feet, but I think a digital setup might work better, IMO.

[networx]

So, are you saying if I upgrade the power supply then the USB external cards should have enough to push the other x3 t.v's?
Like I said x3 work great, but as I add t.v's the picture starts getting lighter and lighter and lighter. I've gotten so many different ideas to do this, but none of the people who gave me these ideas can tell me if their idea will 100% work or not.

[usually_quiet]

I think that doing it without a mulitplexer is really hard. I think I'm just going upgrade the power supply to 750w and see if that helps push the usb vid. cards and go from there.
If it doesn't, what do you think about this....replace the HDMI cables w/50' VGA cables? It's just being used for desktop stuff, so no need for the HDMI, right? I can easily get multiple VGA output cards. Crap, I might just build a more suitable computer to handle this.

A 750W PSU is more than is needed, unless multiple higher end, gaming-oriented graphics cards are installed. I agree with redwudz, 500W should be plenty to run the USB graphics adapters. The problem might be related using so many USB ports at one time, and not simply having insufficient power for them all, but I think it is worth trying. Even if it does not solve the problem, it won't hurt. At least the PC will have a quieter, more reliable PSU if you install one of the energy-efficient PSUs from Thermaltake, Antec, or another major brand with a reputation for quality.

HDMI will look a bit better than VGA. VGA looks slightly less sharp. However, TVs are usually easy to set up for VGA and if you haven't tried it already, you could always test one of the TVs with VGA and see how it looks compared to HDMI.

I don't think you will have many choices if you want to have 2 cards and 6 VGA connections. The FirePro 2450 cards have adapters for 4 VGA connections, but I can only remember seeing a few others that provide more than two ports capable of VGA output, either VGA or DVI-I. Eyefinity cards are not going to be an option if you want to use VGA for all the TVs. With Eyefinity cards, if someone wants to use more than 2 connections, the additional ones must use a display port, which is digital only. Eyefinity cards may be an option for HDMI, although you will have to get appropriate display port to HDMI adapters.

If the Lenovo is a typical pre-built PC, you will likely need a different PC to use two PCI-e x16 internal video cards. A combination of the two versions of the FirePro 2450 cards is the only option that might work in a typical pre-built PC. Since one version of the FirePro 2450 cards has a PCI-e x1 interface, it is theoretically possible to run two of them, one of each version, but only if the Lenovo has a PCI-e x1 slot positioned far enough away from the PCI-e x16 slot that it can be used for a second video card.

You mentioned building a PC for this, and the idea has some merit. It would allow you to choose components and would eliminate some of the unpleasant surprises connected with buying pre-built PCs.

So, are you saying if I upgrade the power supply then the USB external cards should have enough to push the other x3 t.v's?
Like I said x3 work great, but as I add t.v's the picture starts getting lighter and lighter and lighter. I've gotten so many different ideas to do this, but none of the people who gave me these ideas can tell me if their idea will 100% work or not.

The only people who could tell you for certain that their ideas would work would be those who had already done it. If you want certainty you will have to find someone who has done many similar installations, but chances are the components they used were not the same ones you have.

[jagabo]

They are Monoprice 2048 * 1152 external USB to DVI video cards.

Are those fast enough for your application? They don't work well for high definition video playback, for example (insufficient bandwidth via USB2).

[networx]

Yes, just browsers. Database reports from URL. DVR cameras from off-site No gaming or 3D!

usually_quiet.. Yes I think 750 is more than I need, but I'm tired of getting "what's suppose to work" and then doesn't.
I'm going to try and upgrade the PSU to 650w and if that doesn't help, then I'm going to add x1 FirePro 2460 (x4 display port) PCIe x16 (active DP to HDMI) and then just use x2 of the external cards. Just found out that the external cards aren't very external becuase they work off the on-board card.

[networx]

usually_quiet, Yea I agree I should talk with someone who has done it, but I cannot find anyone that has done it w/ 46 inch t.v's

[networx]

The 1st pic is all six up and mounted. #2 was x4 up and a practice run. #3 is all six mounted but only x4 working with #4 way lighter. You can't tell from the picture but it is.

[usually_quiet]

usually_quiet, Yea I agree I should talk with someone who has done it, but I cannot find anyone that has done it w/ 46 inch t.v's

Native resolution matters. Refresh rate matters. The connections used and the length of the cable run matters. The physical size of the TV does not matter. The problems you are seeing would be identical if these were just 19 inch monitors and not TVs.

[networx]

Ok, let me ask you this. Would I have been better off just getting x6 VGA cables and a couple of dual DVI cards w/ dual VGA dongles? or getting the FirePro 2460 quad display port and get x4 active DP to HDMI and then just use x2 of the external video cards?? I've hooked up 3-4 computer displays to one computer with ease. I don't understand why this is difficult, or am I just making it difficult? I do appreciate every ones help, this damn thing has just stressed me so out I'm sick.

Has anyone ever done a video wall with LED t.v's and if so, what is the easiest fix for this. If I have to buy new cables then so be it, I just want it done.

[usually_quiet]

Ok, let me ask you this. Would I have been better off just getting x6 VGA cables and a couple of dual DVI cards w/ dual VGA dongles? or getting the FirePro 2460 quad display port and get x4 active DP to HDMI and then just use x2 of the external video cards?? I've hooked up 3-4 computer displays to one computer with ease. I don't understand why this is difficult, or am I just making it difficult? I do appreciate every ones help, this damn thing has just stressed me so out I'm sick.

Has anyone ever done a video wall with LED t.v's and if so, what is the easiest fix for this. If I have to buy new cables then so be it, I just want it done.

redwudz has a very nice home theater that includes multiple HTPCs, media servers, and apparently has used some long PC video cable runs. Unless someone shows up who has experience installing video walls, I think you should listen to his advice regarding VGA, and long cable runs, versus HDMI.

An advantage to using HDMI is the picture is generally perfect or it is non-existant. Only when the signal is on the verge of being too weak to provide any picture at all are there any symptoms, random pixels that can't be read, which result in "sparkles" appearing in the picture. Different HDMI cables could help for cable runs longer than 15 feet, if there are indications that the signal is weak. Monoprice recommends 22AWG cables for HDMI cables longer than 15 feet. There are also HDMI repeaters and HDMI extenders available for longer cable runs.

I find display port to be a very interesting technology, but I don't have anything with display port yet. It is not as widely used as DVI, HDMI, or VGA so there is less information available about it. User reviews report varying experienced using either active or passive display port to HDMI adapters. JMO, but it might be better to stick to DVI and HDMI if you have a choice, but it is difficult to determine what options you have available at this point. As for dual DVI cards, can you use them now or do you need a different PC? You have never said how many PCI-e X16 slots the Lenovo's motherboard has or even given a model number for the Lenovo.

[usually_quiet]

I'm going to reverse myself. Looking at Eyefinity once more, I think it offers a better chance of getting the job done than anything else discussed so far. I ran the configuration tool for "advanced productivity" at AMD's Eyefinity section and it said one Eyefinity card with 4 display ports or mini display ports, and a second card with 2 DVI, 2 HDMI, or 1 HDMI and 1 DVI (for all-digital connections).

I'm not sure why the predominant connection has to be display port, but I guess AMD would know what is most likely to work for six monitors. A second internal video card for HDMI and/or DVI seems to be a requirement. I think the USB video adapters were a mistake. It doesn't seem that they will be useful for this application if they depend upon an internal video card for functionality.

AMD's list of approved display port to HDMI adapters is here.: http://support.amd.com/us/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity-dongles.aspx

[Edit]I looked for an Eyefinity card with 4 display ports, and all of them had 2 other digital connections besides, like this giant: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121431

AMD's configurator must mean a single card. Oh man, what a power-sucking, bulky, monster. A 650W PSU may not be enough to power it. At 11.7 " x 5 " it will need a big case, and it takes up 3 expansion slots. ...and this is a cheap card for this kind of port configuration.

[jagabo]

Matrox makes a lot of multimonitor display cards too. And has been doing so for much longer than Nvidia and ATI.
For example: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/m9188pciex16/

[usually_quiet]

Matrox makes a lot of multimonitor display cards too. And has been doing so for much longer than Nvidia and ATI.
For example: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/m9188pciex16/

That's an impressive piece of hardware, but at about $1,800, it should be.

[networx]

usually_quiet, Yea I agree, big mistake with the external cards, but for what I'm using it for I thought and so MonoPrice, that it would do the trick. I see the Eyefinity your talking about, but here is the one I'm talking about....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195099&Tpk=firepro%202460
I'm thinking about this and just using x2 of the external cards. X3 of these externals work great, so x2 should be ok for #5 & #6.
It's either this and a in-line repeater or just go VGA cable to x2 dual DVI cards with dual vga dongles for each DVI output. Waiting on a 650w power supply now, just to see if that helps the external issue and if not on to plan#2. Again, thanks for all the help.

The Matrox's are good and I looked at those, but the FirePro 2460 has quad DPort and at only $250.00 versus $1800.00= no brainer, but thanks none the less.

[usually_quiet]

usually_quiet, Yea I agree, big mistake with the external cards, but for what I'm using it for I thought and so MonoPrice, that it would do the trick. I see the Eyefinity your talking about, but here is the one I'm talking about....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195099&Tpk=firepro%202460
I'm thinking about this and just using x2 of the external cards. X3 of these externals work great, so x2 should be ok for #5 & #6.
It's either this and a in-line repeater or just go VGA cable to x2 dual DVI cards with dual vga dongles for each DVI output. Waiting on a 650w power supply now, just to see if that helps the external issue and if not on to plan#2. Again, thanks for all the help.

The Matrox's are good and I looked at those, but the FirePro 2460 has quad DPort and at only $250.00 versus $1800.00= no brainer, but thanks none the less.

I did look at the FirePro 2460 before deciding on an Eyefinity solution. The configuration you are considering might work, but that is uncertain. The FirePro 2460 is not an Eyefinity card and it is a 20W low-power passively cooled card. You may find you still need an additional internal card to run 6 monitors.

According to you, the external USB devices are not independent video cards. The question is, does the FirePro 2460 have the ability to run 4 monitors itself and assist two external devices?

I saw something else when I looked at the FirePro 2460, which made me think an Eyefinity solution was more likely to work, the Sapphire 100290SR Radeon HD 5870, a discontinued Eyefinity card with 6 mini display ports. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102888 A reviewer who wrote a negative review for the FirePro 2460 and sets up daytrading systems for a living said that one worked, and worked well for him. It is still a big card, but not as big as the other current card, and a 650W PSU would be enough to run it. Too bad it is not available anymore except at an inflated price.

[networx]

Well damn, lol. After talking with a couple AMD techs, they said that the 2460 x 2 would work. x3 on each.w/ display port to HDMI (active) dongle. I was going to get x1 to try out with the active dongle, just to check it out before I bought a ton more stuff. I know that 50' VGA cables would work with x2 dual DVI cards w/dual VGA for each DVI output, so I guess I'll make that idea the back-up plan. I'll see if x1 2460 works and go from there. I've now got a 850w PSU on the way in case i decide to build a more custom PC. I'd like to not spend more that another 12-1300.00 ...Tell me what you think:

Motherboard- ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO USB3
CPU-AMD Phenom II X4 BLK edition Quad core
PSU-800 watt
RAM-Corsair XMS 8GB DDR3
Video card- x2 AMD FirePro 2460
Hard drive - Seagate Barracuda 1TB
Case-Themaltake V3 Blk. edition Mid-Tower case

[usually_quiet]

Well damn, lol. After talking with a couple AMD techs, they said that the 2460 x 2 would work. x3 on each.w/ display port to HDMI (active) dongle. I was going to get x1 to try out with the active dongle, just to check it out before I bought a ton more stuff. I know that 50' VGA cables would work with x2 dual DVI cards w/dual VGA for each DVI output, so I guess I'll make that idea the back-up plan. I'll see if x1 2460 works and go from there. I've now got a 850w PSU on the way in case i decide to build a more custom PC. I'd like to not spend more that another 12-1300.00 ...Tell me what you think:

Motherboard- ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO USB3
CPU-AMD Phenom II X4 BLK edition Quad core
PSU-800 watt
RAM-Corsair XMS 8GB DDR3
Video card- x2 AMD FirePro 2460
Hard drive - Seagate Barracuda 1TB
Case-Themaltake V3 Blk. edition Mid-Tower case

Actually, I did see one review of the FirePro 2460 that hinted at the reviewer having 2 of them installed for connecting 8 monitors.***

Regarding your parts list for a custom build (I'm assuming this is for your boss)...

Did AMD tech support provide any guidance with respect to motherboard features that are needed when installing two FirePro 2460 cards for six monitors? ...or will any newer board with two PCI-e x16 graphics card slots do?

You had best be sure that the boss is OK with an AMD system, because some people have a pretty strong preference for Intel CPUs.

Most things on the list looks like they are geared towards over-clocking. I'm not sure that over-clocking is necessary for a productivity machine, and could make the system slightly less stable, but I can certainly see where 4 cores would be good for someone who is heavy-duty multi-tasker.

More VideoHelp members seem to like Gigabyte than Asus. I would probably pick something from Gigabyte too. The consensus is Gigabyte boards are built better.

How much local storage does your boss need? Servers are used to store a lot of the data in some businesses. A smaller boot drive would be quicker to boot, back up, and scan for security purposes. You could always install a larger, slower, second drive for data storage, if needed. Some of our members who want fast boot times, but don't trust SSDs, use VelociRaptors for their boot drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136928

[Edit] ***Who knows, maybe the 8 ports from installing that second FirePro will come in very handy someday. Next year, your boss could decide he needs to install a 4x2 array for even better multitasking, and a single 6-port Eyefinity card would not be enough. LOL

[networx]

Usual, the crazy thing is that my boss is only in town x2 days a month and doesn't really do any work. He's just one of those guys that likes cool tech stuff. Ya know? x2 of these monitors will probably show remote DVR cameras from other offices (URL), and another x2 will have database reports etc (URL) and the other x2 will most likely be used for internet as well as have DirecTV on them. I've got that 650 watt PSU and a dual DVI/ x1HDMI/ card going to be here tomorrow, so i'm going to try a dual vga and HDMI set-up( that will be x3 output) and if that works well then I'm going to get another card like it and if x1 or x2 of the external cards work, then great. If not on to the build. As far as boards, yea I actually was on the fence with Gigabyte. In fact, was looking at their GA-Z68X-UD3H B3 Intel z68. Like I've said, the boss isn't a gamer and really will hardly ever use this, but I want to make sure it works flawlessly.

[usually_quiet]

Usual, the crazy thing is that my boss is only in town x2 days a month and doesn't really do any work. He's just one of those guys that likes cool tech stuff. Ya know? x2 of these monitors will probably show remote DVR cameras from other offices (URL), and another x2 will have database reports etc (URL) and the other x2 will most likely be used for internet as well as have DirecTV on them. I've got that 650 watt PSU and a dual DVI/ x1HDMI/ card going to be here tomorrow, so i'm going to try a dual vga and HDMI set-up( that will be x3 output) and if that works well then I'm going to get another card like it and if x1 or x2 of the external cards work, then great. If not on to the build. As far as boards, yea I actually was on the fence with Gigabyte. In fact, was looking at their GA-Z68X-UD3H B3 Intel z68. Like I've said, the boss isn't a gamer and really will hardly ever use this, but I want to make sure it works flawlessly.

The GA-Z68X-UD3H B3 Intel z68 looks nice. However, if it turns out an AMD build is the way you want to go, I have a suggestion for another motherboard to look at. It is socket AM3+, but Socket AM3+ will work with a Phenom II x4. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514

Well, good luck. It is a shame that the installation will only be used a few days out of the month after all the work put into it.

I'd be interested to hear how the project is finally configured when you get it working.

[networx]

WOW! Thx, Usual! I like that and plenty of PCIex16's. I like that a lot. A ton of USB and other slots.
Def. going to get this, ordering now.

I know that will fit in a mid-tower, but do you think I should get a full just to make sure all cards fit?
Also, what do you think about the Phenom II CPU? I'm going with a 800 watt PSU as well.