+VR on DVD+R for VHS copy?

[dragon47]

I have a Toshiba VCR/DVD combi and I have been copying from VHS to Verbatim DVD+R discs. Everything was working fine until I had to get some new blank DVDs. When I try and copy onto the new ones nothing happens.

The VHS tapes were recorded by me so there is no copy protection on any of them.

After a while I realised there was something different about the new discs even though the packaging looked the same (Both Verbatim DVD +R). When I loaded one of my old discs it showed +R and +VR on the screen but the new ones just show +R.

I tried changing the DVD settings in the Toshiba from 'VR mode' to 'Video mode' but I got an disc write error message when I tried to copy with those settings.

So does anyone know if I need to use the +VR format to copy from VHS? If so is it possible to tell which DVD+R discs support +VR?

I've not tried +RW discs yet but they are a lot more expensive so I would prefer not to use those.

Can a nice knowledgeable person please give me some advice?

[jman98]

Just a guess. Verbatim in the USA and Canada now sells this cheap "Life" (NOT to be confused with their excellent DataLifePlus discs) series of discs in stores. Perhaps they sell that in the UK too now and that's what you got. Life discs are the same low grade garbage that everybody sells in the USA/Canada except for Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim's non-Life series of DVDs. So if you got those low grade Life Verbatims, yeah, I'd expect problems with them.

Here's some info on +VR. Go down to the Application Formats section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_formats

[dragon47]

Thanks Jman98.

So if I need this +VR format option to do this does anyone know of amy make of DVD +R that supports the +VR format?

[hech54]

Thanks Jman98.

So if I need this +VR format option to do this does anyone know of amy make of DVD +R that supports the +VR format?

You missed the point ENTIRELY. VR has ZERO to do with which blank DVDs you buy.

[usually_quiet]

If you read the Wikipedia article, it says both +VR and -VR recording modes are intended to be used with rewritable media. When I've looked at manuals for various DVD recorders in the past, I've only ever seen VR mode allowed for rewritable media. That makes sense because one of the reasons VR mode exists is to allow recordings to be edited, which would seem to require re-writable media. So, I was surprised to hear that your recorder allows +VR mode to be used for write-once +R media. However, I when looked at the manual for a US model Toshiba DVR670 VCR/DVD combo recorder, it said that +VR mode was the only recording mode permitted for both DVD+R and DVD+RW media.

I would guess that you would be safe sticking with the exact brands and speeds of DVD+R media Toshiba recommended in the manual for your recorder. Verbatim DVD+R 8x was the Verbatim DVD+R media they recommended for use with their US model DVR670. If that is true for your model as well, I have only seen 8x DVD+R media available here from Verbatim's "Data Life Plus" product line. The regular AZO and "Life" DVD+R media are 16x.

You can use video mode to record anything but TV shows marked "copy once", which requires CPRM-compatible DVD-RW discs formatted in -VR mode. However you are unlikely to run into "copy once" programming unless you record from a paid TV service.

[dragon47]

Thanks usually_quiet.

The wiki entries for +VR are inconsistant then because the entry for DVD+VR states 'The DVD+VR standard defines a logical format for DVD-Video compliant recording on optical discs. It is intended to be used on DVD+R and DVD+RW media. Most DVD video recorders in the market that support these two types of media also use the DVD+VR format for recording video on them. It is possible to use the DVD+VR format with DVD-R and DVD-RW discs and some recorders exist which do this.

I'll need to check the manual for my Toshiba but I have a feeling it says I should use DVD+RW for copying VHS to DVD...

Both sets of Verbatim discs were x16. I've not seen x8 anywhere.

Sorry hech54, I missed the point of your post as well. How can you justify the statement 'VR has ZERO to do with which blank DVDs you buy.', when I can buy 2 apparently identicle DVD+R discs and one supports +VR and the other does not? I'm glad I posted this in the newbie section because there must be something fundamental that I don't understand!

[MOVIEGEEK]

My father has a Toshiba VCR/DVD recorder and he gets the same error when trying to use DVD+R in Video mode, he gave up and captured his VHS collection with his PC.

EDIT:
I wrote a way to copy VR to DVD-VIDEO awhile ago here but I can't find the thread, I will recap:
1. Load your DVD+VR on your PC and locate the VIDEO.VRO files on the disc, if you are using XP you need to install UDF Reader because the disc uses UDF 2.0. Vista and 7 support UDF 2.0 natively.
2. Import them into your favorite video program(most support VR files) and author to DVD-VIDEO, if your video program doesn't support VR files change the extension to .MPG and try importing.

[jman98]

Both sets of Verbatim discs were x16. I've not seen x8 anywhere.

Sorry hech54, I missed the point of your post as well. How can you justify the statement 'VR has ZERO to do with which blank DVDs you buy.', when I can buy 2 apparently identicle DVD+R discs and one supports +VR and the other does not? I'm glad I posted this in the newbie section because there must be something fundamental that I don't understand!

You can buy 8x online (ie. DataLifePlus). As usually_quiet points out you could have Life series (bad) or AZO (good) discs. You might want to install ImgBurn if you don't have it and put a Verbatim disc in it. Blank or burned - either way. It will read the media code from the disc. You could post the media code here and we could tell you what you've got. Really sounds like you have the Life discs though.

hech54's point is that VR+ is not working for you because your discs are bad quality discs, not because some DVD+R discs magically support VR+ and some do not. Your discs support VR+, it's just not working because they are bad quality discs.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks usually_quiet.

The wiki entries for +VR are inconsistant then because the entry for DVD+VR states 'The DVD+VR standard defines a logical format for DVD-Video compliant recording on optical discs. It is intended to be used on DVD+R and DVD+RW media. Most DVD video recorders in the market that support these two types of media also use the DVD+VR format for recording video on them. It is possible to use the DVD+VR format with DVD-R and DVD-RW discs and some recorders exist which do this.

The article I read was this one about DVD formats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_formats

The two articles are contradictory regarding what DVD formats support +VR recording modes. However, real-world DVD+R media usage trumps Wikipedia.

[dragon47]

Okay thanks everyone.

So if all DVD+R discs are supposed to support the +VR application format does that mean I am justified in returning them to the retailer when they don't?

[jman98]

Okay thanks everyone.

So if all DVD+R discs are supposed to support the +VR application format does that mean I am justified in returning them to the retailer when they don't?

You can try, but whether you are successful or not depends on a lot of factors, including the store's policy on refunds. And if you just end up trading them in on more crap discs, you may be back to square one here with the exact same issue.

Again - you probably should post the media code here so we can identify your discs, but it's your call on that. If you really do have top notch media then we can't blame the discs. Personally I'd like to know whether I have crap media or not if I was you.

[orsetto]

The following paragraphs are an attempt to explain to dragon47 why using Google or Wikipedia to answer his question just made him more confused: the whole VR thing is a mess. Put in the simplest terms as applied to using a Toshiba DVD recorder, all this "VR" minutiae is irrelevant. You are having problems because your recorder is aging, or because the brand of +R blank discs you're using has recently changed their dye formula to the cheaper nastier version thats optimized for PC burners instead of DVD recorders. Verbatim has been slowly regressing into just another bargain brand at retailers, with spotty reliability for recorders. If you want to avoid any chance of media problems, buy from web dealers and look for JVC/TY Premium Silver 8x or Verbatim DataLifePlus Silver 8x media. It doesn't cost all that much more than store brands, and the peace of mind is worth it. You'll also have an easier time identifying problems: if a recorder consistently fails to make proper burns on premium 8x media, its almost a certainty the recorder needs to be replaced.

Two related points no one has raised yet:

1. Depending how old this Toshiba is, it may simply be failing. DVD/VHS combos, and other DVD-only units without hard drives, wear out more quickly than buyers want to admit. Using the DVD drive on a daily or weekly basis to record an hour or two of video direct-to-disc will use up your primary laser power within a year or two. After that, the laser can carry on for some time in a lower power mode which is not burn-compatible with many retail brands of 16x +R and -R, but can still burn the better-grade 8x media from JVC/TY and Verbatim DataLifePlus as well as some better-grade 16x and some RW media. Switching to one of these disc types should help- if not, its time for a new recorder.

2. "+VR" is one of those infuriating technical terms that have multiple meanings, some of which are so obscure they fall right thru the cracks so that the average person cannot possibly be expected to know about them.

The VHS/DVD combos sold in N.A. and Europe under the Toshiba brand are all made by Funai, which specializes in mid-priced gear. Recorder brands made by Funai ALWAYS record raw files in their Funai-specific "+VR" format, which is not exactly the same thing as the VR format usually laid out in Wiki articles or as implemented by other recorder mfrs like Sony or Panasonic.

Non-Funai recorders burn files to + or -R in either a "video" mode, which cannot edit but can be finalized for normal DVD compatibility, or a brand-specific VR mode which allows some crude editing tricks. Such VR discs are only playable in the recorder brand that burned them, they cannot be finalized or played elsewhere (or easily ripped to a PC).

Funai-made recorders like Toshiba record on all media, all the time, in the Funai "+VR" file system, a format shared among the many brands of recorder Funai has sold over the last several years. Funai "+VR" has become a defacto third standard, given that Funai now distributes 60% of the worlds DVD recorders. Unlike other brands, which actually do switch between a proprietary VR burning mode and a more standard Video mode when you tell them to, Funai always records in its own oddball "+VR" system and doesn't normalize it for compatible playback until you select "finalize" and/or "make edits compatible" in the disc setup menu. Instead of using the standard Video mode and standard finalization routines to burn compatible DVDs, Funai-built recorders simply add "redirect" compatibility instructions to the VR file structure. Its a sleight of hand, with the disc waving a flag to the player and saying "no, seriously, I'm a standard video DVD, really I am, ignore my goofy VR file structures and pretend I'm normal." As bizarre as that sounds, it does actually work with most DVD players.

BUT, issues come in with PCs and software, as noted by MOVIEGEEK: they expect to see a very specific finalized Video Mode file structure, they aren't fooled one bit by Funai's little deception (even though it fools most brain-dead hardware players). They see a convoluted +VR structure and they can't make heads or tails of it. You need either very sophisticated up-to-date software that can parse the extraneous Funai file alterations, or you need to manually fudge the files to normalize them per MOVIEGEEK's advice.

When most users think of "+VR", they think of it as the "+VR" which is now standard across-the-board on all DVD recorders and players when burning/playing +RW media. This is yet another take on the "VR" theme, although at least with +RW media everyone agreed to use the exact same meaning and burning methodology. Because it is totally standardized, +RW is the only disc type that does not need to be finalized for compatibility.

[dragon47]

Wow thanks orsetto, that's very useful. It's all helping with my understanding.

I should probably mention that the combo I have also has a HDD, it's less than 2 years old and I've only burned 100 DVDs with it so far.

Last night I tried to record onto one of the new discs direct from the internal DTT tuner in the +VR format. It worked! Not only that but when the recording started both +R and +VR flashed up on the screen. So it seems these discs do support the +VR application format despite the fact that when the disc loads it only displays +R...

So, I have 2 theories that might explain what's happening.

a) When a blank DVD is loaded, instead of analysing the disc to see what formats it can support, the machine simply reads the information from part of the disc reserved for that data.
b) The firmware on the combo prevents VHS to DVD dubbing unless the format data on the disc includes +VR (or -VR) but it does no such check when recording from the tuner (even when DVD is set to record in VR format).
c) The only difference between the old and new discs is what's in the format data.

The alternative theory is that the machine does analyse the recording medium of the disc when it loads but it doesn't do it very well. The medium has changed between the old and new discs and the machine does not think the new ones support +VR when it loads even though they do support it. Item (b) above still applies in this alternative theory except instead of 'the format data on the disc includes...' it would be 'the load analysis includes...'.

Could either of these theories be possible or is this just complete bullshit?

I don't have internet access at home and it's a bank holiday on Monday in the UK so I won't be able check back until Tuesday.
Thanks again.

[orsetto]

Hard to say, dragon47: not really sure how your unit screens blank discs. The Funai DVD/HDD/VCR triple combos are not sold in North America, only Europe. In USA we have only the DVD/VHS units, or DVD/HDD units. These do not have any format option for "Video Mode" or "+VR Mode": as I noted, they always record in +VR mode on all media types, and finalize in their own peculiar fashion when a compatible DVD is desired. When a Funai machine balks at recording in USA, it is almost always due to incompatible (nasty, PC-optimized) store-bought media. This becomes a particular problem when dubbing at higher speed from the HDD section.

Its highly unlikely your new discs are "hostile" to +VR or unsupportive of it: that would be mfr suicide, given that +VR units from Funai completely dominate the global recorder market. There is some other issue in play here, such as the VHS section having a balky interface with DVD recording or an overall funky dye formulation in the new discs. DVD recorders, even the newest models, still rely on an archaic set of burning instructions based on the Japanese 8x media standard of 2005. This conflicts with the overwhelming majority of cut-price 16x Chinese media sold at shops these days, which is almost totally optimized for super-high-speed burning in PCs instead of 1:1 real time dubbing from tuner or VHS, or the typical 6x "high speed" dub from recorders internal HDD. The incompatibility of current media with recorders manifests in all sorts of unpredictable ways, your peculiar "+VR format issue" may just be a lesser-known one. Try to obtain some 8x media, and see if you get more consistent results: this will help rule out the recorder having an intermittent electronic problem.

[joecass]

How come nobody suggested using DVD-R discs instead ? I stopped using +R many years ago. Minus R is compatible with every single machine I own ( 9 at last count ) and all my computer burners. Two of my Funai-based machines are a Philips 3505 and a Toshiba DR 660. On these two, for every day disposable recording, I use DVD+RW's. The Philips doesn't require "finalizing"
but the Toshiba does. The Toshiba always identifies +RW discs as "VR mode". The Philips doesn't. All the Philips requires is to name the disc when recording is finished. I think finalization is done automatically. A +RW recording on the Toshiba must be finalized or it won't play on a standard DVD player. Once in a while, the Toshiba will not complete a timer recording, it appears to have recorded properly, but when turned on, it shows some type of error code next to the Timer listing, and the recording disappears. At that point, nothing can be done with the disc in the menu, not even formatting. I had to record live TV for a few minutes, then I was able to get the menu back where I could format the disc again for re-use. Today I used a DVD lens cleaning disc on the Toshiba to see if this solves the problem. The Philips will record to older 4X +RW's, but the Toshiba won't.
Maybe the OP needs to use a cleaning disc, too.

[orsetto]

I think the reason nobody has suggested -R is to avoid further confusing dragon47, who seems focused on +R and issues of +VR at the moment. But since you brought it up, I have to admit I never use +R media myself, with either my Pioneer or Magnavox (Funai) DVD/HDD recorders. I exclusively use JVC/TY 8x -R and Verbatim DataLifePlus 8x -R, which I order online since its unavailable in stores. Most recorders that can use both - and + really prefer -R, except for Funai/Philips/Magnavox/Toshiba which can use either equally well (because Funai had a hand in inventing +R to get around -R license fees ten years ago). Regardless, a modern Funai/Philips/Magnavox/Toshiba will dutifully record in its native "+VR" file format on whatever media you feed it. -R, +R, -RW, +RW will all be burned as +VR unitl "finalize" or "make edits compatible" is selected in the disc setup menu.

If you can only buy from retail stores, which only sell the latest 16x media, you're kind of screwed. It doesn't matter whether -R or +R: if rated 16x speed, they both stink now for many recorders (fine for PCs, not so hot for recorders). The Verbatim 16x AZO formula in + and - used to be the last of the decent 16x for recorder use, but it has been of random quality in the last year or two and most stores have replaced it with the terrible "Life Series" media which is bargain-basement junk quality. Don't confuse "Life Series", which is crappy private-label Verbatim, with the premium "DataLifePlus" AZO Verbatim which has proven compatible and archival for many years.

[joecass]

One thing I completely don't understand..... I've never had to use JVC/TY 8X -R discs on any of my machines, which are relatively old compared to the latest Magnavox 513/515 offerings. As one electronics retailer after another closed shop, only generic brands like Memorex and TDK were left in stores such as Target or Walmart.
Many years ago, Staples began having sales on Sony and Hewlett Packard 16X DVD-R and +R discs, that's all I've used exclusively ever since. I've read comments here regarding the quality of Sony discs, but never had a problem using them or the HP (CMC Mag) -R discs on any of my machines or computer burners. Of course, on a computer I never burn anything over 8X since that almost always guarantees a coaster. This is contradictory to the popular opinion here which I have much respect for..... but when you can buy discs that work for $.16 to $.22 each,
why pay more ? Sorry to go OT once again to the OP's question.

[orsetto]

One thing I completely don't understand..... I've never had to use JVC/TY 8X -R discs on any of my machines, which are relatively old compared to the latest Magnavox 513/515 offerings. [...] This is contradictory to the popular opinion here which I have much respect for..... but when you can buy discs that work for $.16 to $.22 each, why pay more ? Sorry to go OT once again to the OP's question.

This is a debate which can never be truly settled as long as there are some extraordinarily lucky people like yourself that have never experienced the typical failings of retail 16x media in your recorders. The "popular opinion" does not discount your personal positive experience with retail 16x brands: yours is just as valid as the negatives experienced by others, its just that those who have problems talk about it and explore it more. If you have a recorder, and every blank you buy works as you would expect it to, it will never occur to you to post about it: why would you? Everything seems normal. It would be as peculiar as posting " TDK, JVC, Maxell, and Fuji VHS blanks all work perfectly in my VCR". Those with issues post more often.

Many factors come into play, but for a significant number of us owning DVD/HDD recorders dating from 2008 and earlier, 16x media has been a PITA since about 2006. Thats when we noticed the once-wonderful TDK media began causing all manner of problems, and various forums started buzzing about the cruddy CMC combine absorbing all the previously-independent media brands and switching them to their cut-rate OEM disc factories. The few that didn't fall under CMC got pulled into Ritek, which was almost as bad. Sony and Verbatim held out the longest, but couldn't fight the price wars while maintaining full backwards compatibility. Sony gave up and had its mfr Daxon cut corners, Verbatim signed a BS contract with CMC which claimed CMC would adhere to Verbatim disc specs. That contract wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, spotty reliability began almost immediately despite these CMC/Verbatims identifying as genuine AZO. Last year they gave up the charade completely, and retailers now sell mostly "Life Series" Verbatim which clearly identifies itself as bottom-of-the-line CMC.

The issue plays out differently for those who use retail 16x media in their PCs. The burners and software in PCs handle 16x much better to begin with, and are more capable of coping when new disc variations pop up unexpectedly. A number of geek sites have run tests that are pretty conclusive re the old-school 8x media burning better across the board, but since PCs can often make an apparent silk purse out of a CMC sows ear and the CMC is practically given away free during superstore sales, a lot of people on A/V sites get pissed off at any suggestion theres a tradeoff involved in bargain media. They feel they have a divine right to 10 cent DVD-R blanks, even if they borderline burn and deteriorate within two years, so anyone suggesting they pay 27 cents for slam-dunk guaranteed-good Verb or TY 8x media is written off as a crank, a Commie, and anti-murican.

Meanwhile, hundreds of people post every day to forums all over the world whining that their DVD recorder rejects every blank disc they load in it. You can't have it both ways: if the OEM media was consistently "just as good" as the premium media, the problem wouldn't exist. The fact that 9 out of 10 "my recorder won't successfully burn or finalize" issues are instantly cured by switching to Verbatim or JVC/TY 8x media speaks for itself. Is this fair? Not at all. Should we be able to walk into any store and mindlessly buy any well known brand of media, assuming it would be a no-brainer like blank VHS was? Absolutely. But times changed, consumers changed, and retailing changed. The demand by stores for ever-lower loss-leader pricing means something had to give, and that something is compatibility with the abysmal chintzy antiquated proprietary burners built into most standalone DVD recorders.

It is a mystery why a third of the public is lucky like you've been, joecass. But its how media mfrs get away with this corner-cutting: enough of you don't see a problem that they can pretend there isn't one. But there is, and its one of several reasons recorder sales have gone down the toilet: people get disgusted trying to figure out why the damn things lock up and won't record. Explain to consumers that recorder mfrs still optimize the machines for the premium Japanese media specs of 2004, but such media is only available from obscure dealers online, and they rightly respond the situation is absurd and they won't tolerate it. It is absurd: its absolutely ridiculous, which is why the standalone recorder is dying out. Some of the newer recorders from Funai and Panasonic have been adjusted to handle 16x media better, reports of unburnable discs are much less frequent for those models, but there is still the hidden issue of faster laser wear when burning 16x vs 8x. Since recorder burners are not easily or cheaply replaced, those who do a lot of archiving may want to extend the life of their DVD/HDD recorder by using 8x media even if the machine seems to do well with 16x.

Of course none of this matters to the owner of a typical low-end DVD or DVD/VHS recorder: they don't have the HDD feature, so owners don't get "addicted" to an irreplaceable unit. If the non-HDD recorder wears out, buying another is not difficult and usually results in no loss of features. So if the thing can burn 15 cent media, and you don't really care if the burn is archival-quality, you can opt for the convenience of cheap retail blanks. The money you save can be put toward a replacement recorder when the time comes. But its still a good idea to keep some 8x premium discs on hand: you never know when your laser might start to fail. If it happens just before an important program is due to air, loading an 8x disc might allow you to record the show. Since 8x uses a distinctly different dye formula, its indispensible when troubleshooting a recorder that won't burn- it helps you quickly determine whether the recorder is defective or your brand of 16x media has gotten funky. Testing with another brand of 16x might not be helpful, because the same two factories make 80% of the blanks sold in stores (Brand A 16x discs might be exactly the same as Brand B aside from the package and label).

[jman98]

joecass - SOME Sony branded discs in the past were made by the very best manufacturers, but it's a crap shoot. HP makes junk. Look either you care enough to buy discs you know are good or you do not. Seems like you do not. We get posts like yours all the time here where some guy will insist that by God those crappy, sucky Ritek discs (or some other low quality brand) have NEVER, not even once, given him a problem so only a fool would pay more for other brands. But our forums are filled all the time with people crying about where their brand new stack of brand X DVDs is mostly coasters and what can we do to help them. For all I know you burn your discs at a low speed, which overcomes some of the issues with lower quality discs. Or you may be lucky. Or you may find that in a couple of years that your supposedly "good" discs no longer play.

orsetto's post is pretty good, but to clarify one thing for any newcomers to the thread, Verbatim does still make top grade blanks. You just can't find them in stores any more and have to order them online, but they are most definitely still being made. Taiyo Yuden has never cut corners for discs sold under their own name, although they do sell somewhat lower quality discs under other names. But even "low quality" TYs are probably better than most manufacturers "good" discs these days. The American market has demanded that discs be as cheap as possible and manufacturers are just giving the people what they want - cheap, low quality junk.

[joecass]

Not debating or arguing my point about using el cheapo discs...... I did all my important archiving years ago, right now it doesn't matter to me what I use as long as it works. If I'm one of the "lucky" ones that doesn't have disc problems, I don't think I should apologize for bringing up my experience, and certainly wouldn't suggest to anyone else here what to use or not to use. To me you only learn new things by reading about other people's encounters, I always find Mr. Orsetto's posts to be quite informative.

Case in point..... my oldest DVD recorder, a Sony from 2003, bit the dust 2 years ago. Needs a new burner, not worth paying an arm and a leg to Sony to fix it. Recently I pulled it out of the closet to see if an on-line software update I read about (on videohelp.com) would revive recording capability. After applying the update, it still won't recognize DVD-RW or DVD+RW discs, only commercial DVD movies and various computer-burned discs. Out of
curiosity, I loaded one of the crappy HP 16X DVD-R discs, hit the record button and was able to record a one hour show, then finalize it. Why it worked, I have no clue..... it's back in the closet now where it belongs. Sayonara.

[dragon47]

Meanwhile, back in the UK, I've managed to solve my problem over the weekend.

What I discovered was, if I leave the DVD set to record in VR format, when I record something off the tuner onto one of these new discs, +VR is added so when I next load that disc +R and +VR get displayed. It then allows me to copy from VCR to that disc.

So all I have to do is record a few seconds from the tuner, delete that recording and then the new discs work exactly like the old ones did.


I may not have discovered this without your help and support so thanks again.

[jrflyaa]

i have a magnovox zv450mw8a and two zv427mga recorder/players which i have used for a couples of years without a problem--i also had one other that as soon as i got it i would get the cannot record in +vr mode--i gave this one to my brother who has not had this problem with it--recently hurricane irene came through and we lost power for 12hrs--when it came back on all i get on my three machines is cannot record in the +vr mode--apparently when the power came back on it jolted something in these boxes--i have always been able to use any number of brands of discs in + or- can anyone give me a clue on how o get my recorders back working? thanks

[hech54]

i have a magnovox zv450mw8a and two zv427mga recorder/players which i have used for a couples of years without a problem--i also had one other that as soon as i got it i would get the cannot record in +vr mode--i gave this one to my brother who has not had this problem with it--recently hurricane irene came through and we lost power for 12hrs--when it came back on all i get on my three machines is cannot record in the +vr mode--apparently when the power came back on it jolted something in these boxes--i have always been able to use any number of brands of discs in + or- can anyone give me a clue on how o get my recorders back working? thanks

You need to follow the process of elimination. If nothing else in your house has had any adverse effects from being without power, and since many many manufacturers actually recommend unplugging their units for long periods of time in order to reset them if they start acting funny....then the odds are you simply need to look into the settings menu of these units.

[jrflyaa]

thanks, ive unplugged, but can you clarify looking into the settings menu for me--more specifically what am i looking for?