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    Is there a camcorder under $800 that you think would be good for lower light and also sports action like football and basketball? Football is played under the lights and bb has a lot of action. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
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  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    Is there a camcorder under $800 that you think would be good for lower light and also sports action like football and basketball? Football is played under the lights and bb has a lot of action. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
    Depends on how you want to use the video. Your editing needs (budget and skill) and distribution format.

    If you just want to play a camcorder directly to an HDTV check out the Panasonic HDC-TM700 or TM900 over at www.camcorderinfo.com. These are good for action and light in their 1080 60p mode but you will need to wait for cheap edit software to catch up. These camcorders were pre AVCHD V2.0 but may be supported with future v2.0 software.
    http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM700-Camcorder-Review-37681.htm
    http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM900-Camcorder-Review.htm
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    I will be editing this video and putting it to DVD. I have Vegas Pro 9 for my software.
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  4. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Vegas Pro 10 would be better for AVCHD but you should be able to get v9 to work. At worse you externally convert AVCHD @ 60p to 720x480 MPeg2 60i, then edit SD for DVD. Keep the HD masters for future use.

    For an HD project, 60p is not supported by Blu-Ray players except at 1280x720 resolution. Computers and most media players can handle 1920x1080 60p.


    Note that if you decide to edit 1920x1080 60p, Vegas downscale to 720x480 60i for DVD will not be the best quality. Consider doing that in AVISynth. First downscale to 720x480 60p, then interlace to 60i.
    Last edited by edDV; 20th Aug 2011 at 12:06.
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    What does vegas 10 do better? Could you tell me what you would do in this situation? Would you master to bluray? For Friday nights render I would probably make to DVD as that would be a much faster project than burning to bluray. For the highlight at the end of the year I could make something better quality. That would have to be bluray, right. Would the quality from this camera made into DVD be a better quality than a SD quality DVD? Would this be 1080p or what standard for playback? I have a lot to learn on this. Thanks.
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    What about this camera?
    Panasonic HDC-SD800K


    I have read it is the exact same camera as the 900, other than no built in memory, and a little smaller screen.
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  7. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    What about this camera?
    Panasonic HDC-SD800K

    I have read it is the exact same camera as the 900, other than no built in memory, and a little smaller screen.
    Here is a good review
    http://camcorder-reviews.net/panasonic/panasonic-hdc-sd800k-review/

    Other than external memory only,
    The Panasonic HDC-SD800 lacks the lens control ring found on the HDC-HS900 and HDC-TM900. It also lacks the 5.1-Channel Surround Sound System. The touch screen is smaller too.

    It has a 3 inch 230,000 dot touch-screen LCD, while the HDC-HS900 and HDC-TM900 have 3.5 inch touch screen LCDs with 460,800 dots.
    Lack of internal memory is no big deal.

    Lens control ring supports manual focus.

    5.1 sound may be useful for a sporting event

    Smaller touch screen may be difficult if you have fat fingers. Best to demo one in a store.
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  8. I own the TM55 .Panasonic is an good choice
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    Yeah, lack of internal memory is no big deal. Lens control is not either. 5.1 would be nice but they use an external mic and I don't know how that would work. Smaller screen again is no big deal. It can't be any smaller than the one we have now.
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  10. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I don't see an external mic jack listed in that review.

    You better verify that at the Panasonic site. It would be a show stopper for me.

    Another show stopper for me would be lack of manual audio level control. Also a headphone jack.
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    Crap, you are right. I guess the 900 it is then. Shoot, I thought I would be able to save some money for things I did not need.
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    edDV, I don't like you anymore.:#
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  13. I used the Panny TM-700 and Vegas Pro 9 on my 4 year old Dell XPS desktop. The TM-700 is AMAZING and the video files work great with Vegas Pro 9. I've purchased the Vegas Pro 10 update, just wanted to wait to replace my desktop before installing it.

    The TM-700 is unique in it's price point....I enjoy shooting 1080/60p, then slowing down to 24p in Vegas Pro and getting smooth 1080p slo-mo for action. My brother's $5k Sony NX5 doesn't even do 1080/60p.
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    Okay, change in budget. Raise that to between 1200-1500 if there is anything in that range better or worth it over the Panasonic 900.
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  15. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    Okay, change in budget. Raise that to between 1200-1500 if there is anything in that range better or worth it over the Panasonic 900.
    But you no longer like me
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    I will like you again if you can give an idiot like me some guidance.
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    Seriously edDV I do need some help. I have to make a decision by tonight or tomorrow morning if I am going to get this money. Kind of crazy but one of those things.
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  18. check the pro line on amazon.com

    http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Video-Camera-Photo/b/ref=sv_p_6?ie=UTF8&node=239390011

    or look for a used one/refurb
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  19. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I haven't evaluated that price range.

    I'm looking for a deal on a JVC GY-HM100 myself. It shoots 35Mb/s MPeg2 to SD cards and has 3xCCD (no CMOS Jello wobble) plus all the pro audio features I need. I'm not a great fan of the AVCHD format for serious work.
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/camcorders/jvc-hm100.shtml


    PS In that price range, camcorderinfo.com likes the Canon-Vixia-HF-G10.
    http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF-G10-Camcorder-Review.htm
    http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF-G10-Camcorder-Review/Audio-amp-Oth...r-Features.htm
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&sku=763645&Q=&is=REG&A=details
    Last edited by edDV; 24th Aug 2011 at 06:58.
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    Are the pro lines as easy to use? The people that will be running it won't necessarily be experienced with this camera right away.

    I was also wondering about AVCHD and how hard it is to work with for editing and time constraint for rendering. I use vegas pro 9 right now. I have a quad core but only have 4GB of memory on the machine I have right now. I am building a new one with SSD and the 2600K i7. I will be burning mainly to DVD right now but would like to make some bluray later for highlights if that is possible. If I do mainly to DVD will this give me a better quality DVD because the camcorder now is fairly cheap and I am not happy with the end results. Can anyone fill me in on this? Thanks.
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  21. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    Are the pro lines as easy to use? The people that will be running it won't necessarily be experienced with this camera right away.

    I was also wondering about AVCHD and how hard it is to work with for editing and time constraint for rendering. I use vegas pro 9 right now. I have a quad core but only have 4GB of memory on the machine I have right now. I am building a new one with SSD and the 2600K i7. I will be burning mainly to DVD right now but would like to make some bluray later for highlights if that is possible. If I do mainly to DVD will this give me a better quality DVD because the camcorder now is fairly cheap and I am not happy with the end results. Can anyone fill me in on this? Thanks.
    The JVC HM100 is probably easier to use because you have more hardware switches and less deep menus. MPeg2 is much easier to edit and faster to encode. The HM100 is often used as a news cam run by local news reporters without crew. Downside is camera is larger and SD cards fill faster at 35Mb/s full quality.

    Another possibility you should consider is HDV tape format (e.g. Canon HV40, ~$900). It records 1080i HD to tape but can downsize and export 720x480 DV for IEEE-1394 SD capture. You can edit SD to DVD but still have an HD tape master for later use.

    This cult cam has wide support www.HV20.com
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    Where do I find the HM100 for 12-1500?
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  23. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    Where do I find the HM100 for 12-1500?
    You don't, you raise your budget again. I mention it as an example of a non-AVCHD solution to your problems and as an intro to how the pros do it.

    In that AVCHD price range and with good audio features you have the Canon HF-G10 and the Panasonic HDC-TM700 as the top candidates. AVCHD downscale to SD is a lossy process unless done properly using AVIsynth filters.

    For optimal SD/HD shooting, you have the tape based Canon HV40.
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597424-REG/Canon_3686B001_VIXIA_HV40_High_Definition.html
    Last edited by edDV; 24th Aug 2011 at 09:38.
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    As for budget, that is the top. Someone is actually buying this for our program and that is the max.

    Is the Panasonic 700 better than the 900? How do you feel the Canon G10 compares to the Panasonics?

    So what would I need to do if I have Vegas Pro 9 to use AVCHD mister edDV? Is it a time consuming process and complicated?

    Is there anything a little better than the HV40 for a little bit more money?
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  25. Member edDV's Avatar
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    The TM700 was the previous model. I meant to say newer TM900 which added the 60p mode. I'm just going by these reviews. I haven't used a G-10 or TMx00.

    Here is their comparison of the G-10 vs TM700/TM900.
    http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF-G10-Camcorder-Review/Panasonic-HDC...Comparison.htm
    http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM900-Camcorder-Review/Canon-HF-G10...Comparison.htm
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  26. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    So what would I need to do if I have Vegas Pro 9 to use AVCHD mister edDV? Is it a time consuming process and complicated?
    Vegas Pro 10e has better AVCHD features but still has mediocre* SD downscale from 1080i->480i. 1080p->480i might be a bit better. I don't have any TM900 samples.

    Using AVIsynth, you would separate 1920x540 fields, downsize each to 720x240, then reinterlace to 720x480i for DVD.


    *Vegas first deinterlaces 1080i, then downscales, then reinterlaces.


    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    Is there anything a little better than the HV40 for a little bit more money?
    Canon's next step up is a XH-A1, a big step.
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/589903-REG/Canon_3238B001_XH_A1s_3CCD_HDV_Camcorder.html

    Sony has these
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/518555-REG/Sony_HVRHD1000U_HVR_HD1000U_Digital_H...efinition.html
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/459129-REG/Sony_HDRFX7_HDR_FX7_3CMOS_HDV_1080i.html
    Last edited by edDV; 24th Aug 2011 at 10:24.
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    Do you know anything about the
    Sony HVR-HD1000 Professional HDV Camcorder
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    How much time consumption does using the AVIsynth method take?
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  29. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    Do you know anything about the
    Sony HVR-HD1000 Professional HDV Camcorder
    It is basically a consumer Sony HC camcorder repackaged in a shoulder mount configuration for better hand held stability. Still has a single 1/2.9" CMOS sensor similar to the small cams and similar performance. It may have better audio features than Sony consumer models.

    The Canon HV series has great audio features (manual levels, peak meter, separate mic and headphone jacks) better than typical Sony's. The HV also has manual exposure controls and zebra pattern better than the Sony's.
    Last edited by edDV; 24th Aug 2011 at 11:45.
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  30. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ingeborgdot View Post
    How much time consumption does using the AVIsynth method take?
    Depends on your CPU and encoder settings. But unless you set up a frame serve, you will first need to encode to 1080i AVCHD or 1080i MPeg2 in Vegas before filtering/encoding to DVD MPeg2 in AVIsynth. In other words a two step encode process.

    You may be satisfied with Vegas DVD output. If you get an i7 CPU, a downsize/encode to DVD MPeg2 should go faster than 2x realtime. You can test quality with your current Vegas Pro v9.
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