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  1. Member
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    After years of ripping, authoring and burning DVD's, I'm starting to consider getting a Blue Ray burner.
    I've looked at several units on NewEgg, but NONE of them say they are capable of burning to BR DL. However, in the coments section, several people make comments about that particular drive burning to BR DL.

    To make it more confusing, none of the drives I've looked at seem to show up here in the DVD Writers lists.

    I'd like to not spend too much, since I'm bound to make some mistakes. I'm looking at an LG WH12LS30 for $69, and a Sony BD-5300S-0B for $99. There's also an ASUS 12B1ST/BLK/G/AS for $99 w $20 rebate.

    Burning BR DL may be a moot point - I hear blanks are going for $8 to $15? As far as backing up my Blueray collection, is the typical BR hollywood movie SL or DL?

    One last question: any advice on picking up a HD-DVD drive to back up my HD-DVD collection to hard drive (or even copying just the main featuer to BR)? I've seen some old Xbox HD-DVD units on EBay for about $30.
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  2. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    afaik all bd burners can write dl. check the specs pages on newegg, not the descriptions. the 12x pioneer usually gets high marks and the 12x lg isn't bad either.

    get whatever you can for hd-dvd i haven't seen much of anything for a long time.
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    Thanks. The specs pages don't mention DL, afaics, so I'll take your word for it.
    Figured as much for the HD-DVD drives. Have to search for guides covering converting the main movie to Blu-Ray.
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  4. The Pioneer seems to be less picky about media and burns faster than the LG in my computer. The Pioneer shows BD-R DL 6X BD-RE DL 2X and the LG shows BD-R DL 12X BD-RE DL 2X Both under details so I'm not sure where you are looking.
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  5. I have the LG WH12LS30. Although I haven't tried burning a BDR-DL ($!!!), it's supposedly capable of doing so. Although when I open up ImgBurn and hit "Discovery", then Drive Capabilities, there is no separate checkbox for BDR-DL. SFAIK, *all* Blu-Ray burners can burn BDR-DL. But the cost is high, and as with DVDR-DL, reliability is bound to be lower.

    Anyway, here's a few observations on this unit:

    1) I've successfully burned about 50 BDRs, a mixture of VERBATIMc, RITEK BR2-000 (RiData brand), and CMCMAGBA3 (sold as Philips and Titan brands). All have burned at MAX speed with no errors, verified with no errors and for good measure all have played perfectly on my Sony BDP-S360 standalone players. No coasters. Opti Drive Control tells me this drive is not capable of the DQ (disc quality) tests so beloved over at CDFreaks. But transfer rate tests look nice and flat on all burns with the above discs.

    2) OTOH, Optodisc OTCBDR001 discs (sold under the Acro Circle and Merax brands) are totally incompatible with this burner, although ImgBurn recognizes the media code and rated speeds, so evidently there is a write strategy for them. I tried perhaps ten of them without success. Meritline honored my RMA request.

    3) I've burned maybe 50 DVDs with this drive as well with no failures, a mixture of Verbatims and CMCs, mostly single-layer, but with several double-layers each of Verbs and CMCs. Not statistically significant, I know, but I've noticed that over at MyCE (formerly CDFreaks), the drive is considered well above average in how well it burns DVDs.

    4) It has RipLock, and MCSE tells me it can be unlocked, but I haven't done so. It reads plenty fast enough for me without monkeying around with and maybe bricking the unit, however small the chances of that may be. It reaches about 15 Mbs while ripping a BD and a bit over 4x during verification. Most Blu-Ray movies rip in about 40-50 minutes, full disc.

    As to backing up commercial BDs to BD25s (single-layer BDR), I doubt you could tell the difference even if you had to re-encode to fit. I can't on my 47" HDTV. And mind you, a lot of movies will fit without re-encoding if you do movie only. I've also found the vast majority will fit if you simply re-encode the audio to 640 kps Dolby Digital (AC3). I don't have a sound system to justify HD audio and don't plan on getting one; my oldish setup is just fine with AC3. BTW, I use BDRB for fitting rips to BD25.

    Good luck, and you may find this review interesting, (actually the same burner despite the B instead of W in the model designation):

    http://www.myce.com/review/lg-bh12ls35-12x-blu-ray-rewriter-review-41178/
    Last edited by fritzi93; 12th Aug 2011 at 12:33.
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    I've got 2 BD burners. An LG that isn't being made any more and Pioneer BDR-206BK. I prefer the Pioneer slightly for burns and the LG slightly for rips. If I was only going to use one, I'd go with the Pioneer.

    I've successfully burned one BD DL disc with the Pioneer. I prefer the single layer BD-R discs for cost reasons. Most commercial BD discs are dual layered, although there are exceptions. But most are dual layered. I've been using a lot of Taiyo Yuden LTH BD-R discs. I'm really happy with them. Some older BD players don't like the discs, but if your player was made in the past 2 years the odds are really good that those discs will work fine for you. LTH discs are cheaper than "normal" BD-R discs because they did something in the way of manufacturing them that lowers the cost. Some of the original generation players don't understand the discs. If you are concerned at all that your player may not like them then you need to stick with more expensive non-LTH BD-R discs. I just bought a pack of TY LTH BD-R discs and gambled that they would work and I won that gamble. Others may not feel like taking a chance.

    If you can find an HD-DVD drive on Ebay for $30 then that is a deal. Normal Ebay cautions apply. The BD burner drives that could read HD-DVD discs have long stopped being made and they all sell for in excess of $100 now.
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    After the mushrooms wore off I could see the DL rated speeds for these drives. I swear last night when I checked they did not display in my browser!
    But I do see them now.

    Thanks for the feedback. The Pioneer looks nice, but it's listed at $100 more than the LG. I don't even have an HD camcorder yet, so right now I'm just looking to BU my HD-DVD main features and maybe burn some HDTV shows to BR.

    Any word on LTH discs? The PR says they're less expensive but not compatable with all drives.

    And CDRFreakes is now MYCE? Wow, it's been too long since I've visited that site!
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  8. I use a Pioneer BDR-205 and have found it to be flawless for reading and burning. The Pioneer drives also don't have riplock and thusly don't require patched firmware. I generally use either Verbatim single layer BD-R media or Optical Quantum BD-R blanks which are much much less expensive. Not too long ago I grabbed two 50-packs of Optical Quantum 1-4x rated BD-R blanks for $76 total. I can burn those blanks at 8x and 10x without issue using my drive.

    I would stay away from LTH blanks because not only do not all players support it but production of the discs has been discontinued by some sellers/manufacturers (ie Verbatim). Due to need for tighter QC the Blu-Ray technology I haven't seen enough information on the overall quality and just how long the organic dyes from LTH discs will last. While LTH blanks are cheaper I question their overall feasibility and long-term value.

    I get good burns using Optical Quantum with my Pioneer. Most Blu-Ray releases are on dual-layer (BD-50) discs however a substantial number of those will only require a single layer blank to make a backup if you create a movie-only backup and remove the unnecessary audio and subtitles. Even if the movie-only content is bigger than a single-layer disc it's usually only by a few GB and running the movie-only content through BD Rebuilder will resolve that.
    Last edited by HemLok; 12th Aug 2011 at 12:59. Reason: typo
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  9. I've been meaning to try some Verbatim LTH discs. I see hub printable Verbatim LTH BDRs are available as low as $1.40 per:

    http://www.mediamegamall.com/verbatim-bluray-disc-25gb-white-inkjet-print-20pk-cakebox...1-p-28615.html

    Over at MyCE the Falcon SmartBlu discs are well-thought-of. The price is not bad at about a buck fifty each:

    http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-bluray-disc-25gb-white-inkjet-print-25pk-cakebox...5-p-27686.html

    Also available as branded and thermal printable surfaces.
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    The Optical Quantum's are $24.99 for 25, so $1/disc, at NewEgg, but only rated 4X. For that price I can patiently wait, as long as they play in most players.

    I see Hemlocks point about staying away from LTH discs, if there are questions about compatability and longevety. Learned that lesson with standard DVD's.

    Egg has three Pioneer models, but they all say 206 something. One is an open box for $80.99. The most expensive is only rated 6X.
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  11. Originally Posted by leebo View Post
    The Optical Quantum's are $24.99 for 25, so $1/disc, at NewEgg, but only rated 4X. For that price I can patiently wait, as long as they play in most players.
    Watch for sales at NewEgg. That's where I got my discs. I purchased these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054. I paid $36.99 per 50-pack. I was wrong on the price, too. The total was $73.68. No tax and free 3 day shipping. Due to where I live I had the discs the next day. So, I got 100 discs for $73.68. Less than $1 a disc. Btw, Optical Quantum is now known as Vinpower Digital. Nothing more than a name change. You may wish to check out a smaller order of these discs to see if they agree with your burner and your players.

    Originally Posted by leebo View Post
    I see Hemlocks point about staying away from LTH discs, if there are questions about compatability and longevety. Learned that lesson with standard DVD's.
    LTH was nice in theory and it was a way to keep using older DVD production lines but I just question the reliability of it. We already know there are reliability issues with organic dyes and standard DVD blanks. Now imagine that with a more less fault tolerant media such as Blu-Ray blanks. The burn speed is slow, they use organic dye, lack widespread support in all Blu-Ray devices, and I question how long the media will be produced and supported by any products at all.

    Originally Posted by leebo View Post
    Egg has three Pioneer models, but they all say 206 something. One is an open box for $80.99. The most expensive is only rated 6X.
    The 206 was the successor to the 205. I think they upped burn speeds from 10x to 12x but I don't believe the drive was any better than the 205. I'd go with an OEM bare 206 for $109 rather than an open box OEM bare drive. Yes, it's $30 more but I'd be more confident in what I'm getting. Nonetheless, a decision like that is up to you because you know what you need and how much you wish to spend.
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    LTH warnings are WAY overblown. And this is coming from me, who admits to simply cautioning people in the past that they MIGHT not work on SOME players.

    Here's what you need to know.
    1) Taiyo Yuden makes LTH BD-R discs. So are any of you really willing to say that TY does not know what they are doing here?
    2) Compatibility warnings are hugely overblown. Any player made within the past 2 years should support them without issues. It's only SOME older players that don't play them. I've got a Momitsu BluRay player which is fairly fussy. multiAVCHD can't make a BluRay format disc it will play. My player refuses to play anything on the only BD-RE disc I have. But it likes those Taiyo Yuden LTH discs just fine.

    If you don't like them, don't use them. "Organic dye" is a just a buzzword meant to inspire fear. CD-Rs use ONLY organic dyes. I don't see anybody crapping themselves over how "evil" that is.
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  13. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    LTH warnings are WAY overblown. And this is coming from me, who admits to simply cautioning people in the past that they MIGHT not work on SOME players.

    Here's what you need to know.
    1) Taiyo Yuden makes LTH BD-R discs. So are any of you really willing to say that TY does not know what they are doing here?
    So did Verbatim. The last I heard they had stopped. I don't believe the demand in the marketplace is there for LTH and speed-wise it is slow.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    2) Compatibility warnings are hugely overblown. Any player made within the past 2 years should support them without issues. It's only SOME older players that don't play them. I've got a Momitsu BluRay player which is fairly fussy.
    One of my players is an Oppo BDP-83. It was released in July of 2009 and lacks LTH support which cannot be added. I also own a BDP-93 that does support LTH. I've burned a few LTH discs. I wasn't overly impressed at the cost to burn speed ratio. I don't see the cheap price offsetting the extra time to burn discs. The time to cost ratio is better with standard BD-R blanks.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    multiAVCHD can't make a BluRay format disc it will play. My player refuses to play anything on the only BD-RE disc I have. But it likes those Taiyo Yuden LTH discs just fine.
    Taiyo Yuden is known for quality and I'm not knocking them for producing LTH discs although I do feel it's simply not worth it. I'm knocking the technology of it and seriously question how long LTH will be in existence. Lastly, just because your player likes those discs doesn't really prove anything with respect to quality. I mean it's good it likes the TY LTH discs but what exactly does it prove?

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    If you don't like them, don't use them.
    Exactly. It's a personal preference however I do find it good to warn people about possible issues rather than saying nothing.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    "Organic dye" is a just a buzzword meant to inspire fear.
    How so? DVD blanks (Verbatim & Taiyo Yuden) use organic dye and people don't post FUD about these blanks because they use organic dyes. I'm just saying. No offense intended. I just don't buy this statement.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    CD-Rs use ONLY organic dyes. I don't see anybody crapping themselves over how "evil" that is.
    The wavelengths of the lasers involved and the tolerances are far different between CD-R, DVD, and Blu-ray. BD is a more complex storage medium. You can't compare these two.

    Anyway, I don't recommend LTH media. That's my opinion, I know others share my opinion, and people are free to agree or disagree.

    jman98, please don't take my responses as some form of attack. You made points and I am merely commenting on those points with my own points.
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    Some of you have mentioned "Locked" writers. Does this mean there is code in the firmware preventing these writers from ripping copy protected discs?
    And does it also mean I may have to jump through extra hoops to rip a disc?

    Is the Pioneer 206 writer locked?
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  15. Originally Posted by leebo View Post
    Some of you have mentioned "Locked" writers. Does this mean there is code in the firmware preventing these writers from ripping copy protected discs?
    And does it also mean I may have to jump through extra hoops to rip a disc?

    Is the Pioneer 206 writer locked?
    I believe what you are referring to is "riplock". It limits the read speed of the drive for BD-ROMs in the case of BD discs. The actual usage dates back to DVDs. There are various reasons as to why "riplock" ever came into existence. Originally, the story I heard was that it was to slow down the drive speed so that there was reduced noise during movie playback. Others feel it exists to deter and annoy people copying discs.

    The Pioneer BDR-205 doesn't have riplock as a feature. I expect the 206 won't either. I am unaware of other brand drives that don't have riplock. It seems to be a pretty standard thing. If other people know of other drives that come without it then I'd actually be curious to know which ones.
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  16. Exactly. RipLock has nothing to do with preventing you from ripping discs, it just limits read speed. To repeat one of my earlier posts (with a correction of transfer speed during ripping): During verification, the drive gets a bit over 4x. Ripping a disc, it reaches about 15 Mbps, so approx 40-50 minutes to rip an average movie, full disc.

    Not a huge deal at all. I can't at the moment give you any numbers as to how much of a speed increase one can expect from unlocking the drive. I read some comments at MyCE from members who had done so, but don't remember specifics. I concluded I wouldn't bother, as I only do a couple backups a week, if that.

    You need to find the firmware first, and that means using the BH firmware, as you can't find the WH firmware, LG having gone to an automated firmware updater. Then you open the firmware in MCSE and unlock the drive.

    I will try to find out how much speed increase one can get unlocking the LG WH12LS30 drive. If I had to guess right now, I'd say it's less than a 30% increase.
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  17. Okay, I found one post claiming a 50% increase in read speed:

    http://club.myce.com/f91/lg-wh12ls30-not-yet-mcse-but-can-i-still-remove-riplock-322880/

    From what I can gather, the difference between the WH12LS30 and the BH12LS30 is that (supposedly) one is intended to be sold as OEM, the other retail. I got the WH model from NewEgg, and got the latest PowerDVD suite with it. Uggh, gee thanks.

    I applied the firmware update that comes on a CD with the burner in the bundled software package. I also installed the automatic updater, but no newer firmware has been released, which is common with LG burners. They don't release updated firmware for existing drives very often, if at all.

    Anyway, my current unmodified firmware is 1.00-C0. Searching for the WH30LS30 firmware, you probably won't find it anywhere. (Remember, they don't trust you to do it, hence the auto-updater). But you *can* find the BH12LS30 firmware, and it's the same version, 1.00-C0. Here it is:

    http://files.rpc1.org/index.php?act=view&id=5864

    One thing I forgot, you can bitset this burner (i.e. DVD+R to DVD-ROM) but will lose the setting after rebooting and must apply it again. Now that's stupid.

    Anyway, I like mine and think it's a good deal for the price. Cheapest one made at this time, AFAIK.

    Good luck whatever you get.
    Last edited by fritzi93; 12th Aug 2011 at 18:56.
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  18. Member
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    I went for the LG. I wanted the Pioneer, but for my first Blu-Ray burner I thought I'd keep my inversment as low as possible while I learn.
    Thanks everyone.
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  19. Hi I got a Pioneer BDR-XD04 from Walmart the price was $121. Has all of the possible burning capabilities for and in the future when disc prices would ever drop.
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  20. Texan V Bot's Avatar
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    This is what I recently bought, it works fine, for me.
    LG WH14NS40 ($69.00)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250

    To answer your next question, I got these:

    Verbatim 25GB BD-R 25 pack ($31.99) (Not the LTH Type) These just say RECORDABLE
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130156
    Last edited by V Bot; 15th Sep 2012 at 09:13.
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  21. Originally Posted by V Bot View Post
    This is what I recently bought, it works fine, for me.
    LG WH14NS40 ($69.00)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250

    To answer your next question, I got these:

    Verbatim 25GB BD-R 25 pack ($31.99) (Not the LTH Type) These just say RECORDABLE
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130156
    Hi brought my disc at http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_4_0?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A281407%2Cn%3...&rnid=15784691


    and I brought these http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_4_0?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A281407%2Cn%3...&rnid=15784691
    Last edited by laslarry; 17th Sep 2012 at 20:17. Reason: want to add more
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  22. Originally Posted by leebo View Post
    Some of you have mentioned "Locked" writers. Does this mean there is code in the firmware preventing these writers from ripping copy protected discs?
    And does it also mean I may have to jump through extra hoops to rip a disc?

    Is the Pioneer 206 writer locked?
    No, it is not locked, approx 30 minutes read time on a full dual-layer BD.
    Last edited by Steve(MS); 17th Sep 2012 at 23:01. Reason: Added "minutes"
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    Steve(MS) - This thread was over a year old before laslarry grave robbed it and brought it back to life. The post that you quoted is over a year old too. Kind of late to still be responding to it, don't you think? Plus I think the question got answered already and hopefully leebo understood the answer a long time ago.
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  24. Ah, didn't notice the dates, you are correct, I am surprised you didn't show up before now to advise laslarry.
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  25. I got a USB Memorex & it shows as a Pioneer.
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  26. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by handyguy View Post
    I got a USB Memorex & it shows as a Pioneer.

    And???
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