How to encode xvid with h.263

[kenryuakuma]

Format                           : DivX
Format/Info                      : Hack of AVI
File size                        : 445 MiB
Duration                         : 43mn 45s
Overall bit rate                 : 1 423 Kbps
Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                   : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP            : Yes
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode                      : Packed bitstream
Codec ID                         : DX50
Codec ID/Hint                    : DivX 5
Duration                         : 43mn 45s
Bit rate                         : 1 284 Kbps
Width                            : 640 pixels
Height                           : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.139
Stream size                      : 402 MiB (90%)
Title                            : Video 
Writing library                  : XviD 1.1.2 (UTC 2006-11-01)

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 3
Mode                             : Joint stereo
Mode extension                   : MS Stereo
Codec ID                         : 55
Codec ID/Hint                    : MP3
Duration                         : 43mn 45s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Stream size                      : 40.1 MiB (9%)
Alignment                        : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 33 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration     : 500 ms
Title                            : Audio

Well...I know how to encode MKV with h.264....But when it comes to AVI, things won't work as well as expected.
I have successfully encoded the AVI with bitrate set to the bit rate that I posted within the code tags...However, the outcome is really bad and the movie looks really weird. But if I do not set the bitrate and compression, the video looks really good, but the file size is huge and it is over 1GB.

The above info was taken from the movie encoded in AVI, which has really amazing quality. So my question is how I can encode the movie with awesome quality by using the information above. That's just set the bitrate to 1 500 Kbps, then have amazing quality.

How can it be done via virtualdubmod? I am not sure if the encoder did use virtualdubmod or some other software...

[Baldrick]

xvid with h263? No such thing.

Are you using the xvid codec in virtualdubmod? And then try set it to 2-pass under video->compression->xvid->configure and adjust the bitrate.

Or use Autogk, Fairuse Wizard, staxrip, megui to make a good looking avi with standard xvid from dvds.

[dragonkeeper]

I assume you meant h264?
Xvid and h264 are video codecs you can not use one to create the other. That's like saying i want to use an Intel processor to create an AMD processor.
Are you wanting to create an avi using h264 video? I have heard there are methods to do such but what would be the point? I don't believe the resulting avi will not be recognized as an avi by stand alone players thus would not play. The only possible benefit I can see is the ability to generate smaller avi files. AVI files that can only be played on a PC, in which case you may as well use mkv or mp4.

[kenryuakuma]

Yeah...I might be wrong but it is possible to do this with MEGUI I think with H.263 with xvid codec.

Also BTW, could ya guys please talk about or explain how to use MEGUI to encode xvid in details in possible...Also after encoding it into avi, how can ya put it into the AVI container and this is what I get stuck with,=.

I tried that with MEGUI, but the outcome is not really that satisfactory and there are tons of blocks...Even I set my output to be 500MB, which means 1450 kbr.

ONE LAST QUESTION: By looking at the info of the video I posted in the first post, could ya guys tell what software the encoder used? Because I would like to learn how to encode avi in awesome quality with file size like 450 - 500MB.

[locotus]

A good place to start:

http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/me_gui_convert_to_xvid.cfm

[poisondeathray]

h263 when referring to xvid pertains to the matrix used (mpeg, h263, or custom matrices)

Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)

kenryuakuma - what kind of video? lots of action? what kind of video is the other one? If there are lots of action or noise that sort of thing , you might need to denoise it. You cannot compare different types of content

Also after encoding it into avi, how can ya put it into the AVI container and this is what I get stuck with,=.

If you encode xvid using megui, it will automatically use AVI container

If you want to mux the audio in , in the tools menu there is an avi muxer. Or you can use avimux gui for separately example (which is the tool used in megui)

[dragonkeeper]

h263 when referring to xvid pertains to the matrix used (mpeg, h263, or custom matrices)

Thanks Poisodeathray for clearing that up, totally makes since now.

Yeah...I might be wrong but it is possible to do this with MEGUI I think with H.263 with xvid codec.

It is quite possible to encode an avi, with the xvid codec useing the h.263 matrix.

It may come down to the compressibility of the source file, removing as much as possible of each of the following mosquito noise, grain, dot crawl, chroma shift and halo effects will usually increase the compressibility of the source video by a great deal therefore decreasing the bit rate required to achieve a certain level of quality thus reducing file size. This is where knowledge of avisynth comes in handy.

Also are you using single pass or multiple pass? I would recommend at least 2 passes.

[kenryuakuma]

OK to answer all the questions.

1) The info of the video was extracted from an American Series, which is the first episode. SO I am just wondering what software the encoder uses...The quality is really good. I am sure the encoder does not use avisynth or something. However, the only problem is the blocking artifacts.

2) Thanks for the AVI MUX thing poisondeathray and the information about xvid codec dragonkeeper.

3) Now I can encode the video, and the file size is about 445MB...However, there is something which has been bothering me - THE BLOCKING ARTIFACTS. I used deblock filter in the virtualdubmod itself, but it didn't help...Then I also tried writing script of avisynth, but it didn't help either. The outcome of the video, when there is action occurs, is filled with the blocking artifacts...SO I am just wondering if there is a way to deblock all these blocks

BTW...I used MPEG to xvid in virtualdubmod.

[manono]

However, there is something which has been bothering me - THE BLOCKING ARTIFACTS.

Usually a combination of too high of a resolution and too low of a bitrate. Perhaps if you posted small samples of both the source and a section of the AVI showing the blocking we could give more informed advice.

And if you're gong to specialize in anime, you almost have to learn AviSynth. For example, I highly doubt the framerate is supposed to be 29.97fps. It needs an IVTC.

[kenryuakuma]

Ok...I am learning how to encode American and Asian series, I happen to find one series encoded in AVI with hardsub, the file size of which is only 400MB...I scanned through the video a bit, though the quality is a bit blurry but there is no blocking artifacts even compressed. And I really like the quality. I am not sure if the encoder did use filters or some sorts. I am just wondering how the encoder encoded it...I hope ya guys could shed light on this.

Here is the link of the first episode of the Chinese series...This is just the sample. Everything is legal.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S3P7KGH5

[manono]

No blocking artifacts? They're all over the place. Whenever there's movement. Worse though, perhaps, is that a PAL2NTSC field-blended source was simply deinterlaced leading to the extreme blurriness. If the encoder knew anything about what he was doing, he'd have made it progressive by unblending it back to the source framerate, most likely 25fps. But without the 'true' source, I can't be positive about that. In any event, I wouldn't hold up that episode as a good example of how to encode.

[jagabo]

Maybe the difference is what decoder is being used and whether it's set to deblock or not. For example you can have a Divx video (fourcc = DX50) and an Xvid video (fourcc = XVID) with similar amount of macroblocking. But if one is decoded by the Divx codec and the other by the Xvid codec, and one of those decoders is set to deblock and the other not, the two will look different on playback. A portion of frame 2331, decoded with Xvid, deblocking off and deblocking on, 4x nearest neighbor enlargment:

[kenryuakuma]

Well...The video I encoded was ripped from original DVD series. The source is interlaced and WITH NO BLOCK ARTIFACTS, but I was able to use filters to deinterlace them. However, the outcome of the rip does contain blocks. Quality of the outcome of the video is similar to the original DVD except for the fact that blocks appear whenever there are movements. I am just wondering how you guys set up the xvid code and then how to get rid of the blocks. If the original DVD does have blocks, it might be easy to use script and filter to eliminate them. But this happens after the encoding, I really don't know how to deal with it. Please help

[manono]

but I was able to use filters to deinterlace them.

You used the wrong filters. You should have unblended rather than deinterlaced. That would have lowered the framerate and made the video much more compressible.

I am just wondering how you guys set up the xvid code and then how to get rid of the blocks.

It's not so much the setting up of the XviD encode but the making of a proper AviSynth script for encoding.

Post an untouched sample from the DVD source, 10 seconds or so with steady movement. I didn't realize the sample was your encode.

If you don't want blocks and don't know how to run a compression test to determine the proper size for the resolution you're using, just encode using CQ 3.

[jagabo]

If Xvid is being used to play your videos: Start -> All Programs -> Xvid -> Configure Decoder -> Enable Deblocking (Y), at least.

[kenryuakuma]

naaa...the one I posted is not my encoded video...I just grabbed it from one of the asian blog. I will try to post the stephen chow's movie up here and hope ya guys could help. jagabo, yes xvid is what I used for my encoding and this is what I set for the xvid before I encoded the video, but it still has a lot of blocks on the fished-product.

BTW, because of the original video is VOB, I cannot direct stream copy with virtualdubmod, cutting part of the video of 20 sec is already 800MB...So hope you guys could help me with this as well. I have Megui as well.

[jagabo]

xvid is what I used for my encoding and this is what I set for the xvid before I encoded the video, but it still has a lot of blocks on the fished-product.

Just because you use Xvid to encode the video doesn't mean it's also being used to decode the video. Other codecs can decode Xvid. Divx and ffdshow for example. And many players have built in Xvid decoders. VLC, MPCHC, KMPlayer, etc.

[manono]

BTW, because of the original video is VOB, I cannot direct stream copy with virtualdubmod, cutting part of the video of 20 sec is already 800MB...So hope you guys could help me with this as well. I have Megui as well.

You're talking about cutting a small piece for uploading? If so, open a VOB in DGIndex. Use the [ and ] buttons to isolate a small 10 second section with steady movement. Then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Take the resulting M2V file and upload it to MediaFire or Sendspace.

[kenryuakuma]

Ok here is a sample of episode 05, the final combat of stephen chow.

http://www.mediafire.com/?d19g6a7r0r4nmaa

And here is my finished product of episode 04

As you can see, there are a lot of blocks...Just wonder how to get rid of these in the encoding process. Please help.

Complete name                    : C:\The Final Combat - Episode 04.avi
Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 447 MiB
Duration                         : 41mn 45s
Overall bit rate                 : 1 496 Kbps
Writing application              : VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2 (build 2540/release)
Writing library                  : VirtualDubMod build 2540/release

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                   : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP            : Yes
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode                      : Packed bitstream
Codec ID                         : XVID
Codec ID/Hint                    : XviD
Duration                         : 41mn 45s
Bit rate                         : 1 357 Kbps
Width                            : 640 pixels
Height                           : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.147
Stream size                      : 405 MiB (91%)
Writing library                  : XviD 64

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 3
Codec ID                         : 55
Codec ID/Hint                    : MP3
Duration                         : 41mn 45s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Stream size                      : 38.2 MiB (9%)
Alignment                        : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 33 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration     : 504 ms
Writing library                  : LAME3.98r
Encoding settings                : -m s -V 4 -q 3 -lowpass 17 -b 128

[jagabo]

To get rid of blocks in a DVD source use an MPEG decoder that has a deblocking option. Like DgMpgDec. Or use a deblocking filter in your editor.

To get rid of blocks in your Xvid encodings use more bitrate. Or use some filtering to get rid of noise that will require higher bitrates.

[manono]

It's a pretty useless sample since it's just two people standing and talking. I said 'steady movement'. So, no blocks that I can see. Anyway, that's one horribly done series. This is from the retail DVD, you say? If shot on video, it's already been deinterlaced. That doesn't really explain the blends during scene changes, though.

It's so heavily edge enhanced that the 'halos' are black. The BlindDehalo filter can help with that, but that's some of the very worst edge enhancement I've ever seen and BlindDehalo certainly won't fix it.

Like I said before, if you don't want blocks, encode using Constant Quant 3. If the blocks are in the source, remove then using Deblock_QED or similar, or add in deblocking when setting up the DGDecode line in the AviSynth script. Doing it that way, though, softens everything and not just the areas with blocks.

[kenryuakuma]

So the DVD retail source is horrible right? Yes I know that because taiseng really compressed eight episodes into one dual layer DVD.

The original DVD does not have blocks...But there are blocks everywhere when there is a movment after encoding using xvid. I will try constant Quant 3 and see if there is any block after encoding.

[jagabo]

The original DVD does not have blocks...

Yes it does. 4x nearest neighbor zoom from frame 1547 of the sample:



With DgMpgDec's deblocking option:

But there are blocks everywhere when there is a movment after encoding using xvid. I will try constant Quant 3 and see if there is any block after encoding.

Deblock the the source first.

[kenryuakuma]

So the question is like even after deblocking the original source of the DVD, blocks still exist?

I also deblocked the source. But even if I do, the result still contains a lot of blocks whenever there is a movement.

BTW, how can I set Constant Quant 3? Below is what manono said. And this is what I used

"Like I said before, if you don't want blocks, encode using Constant Quant 3. If the blocks are in the source, remove then using Deblock_QED or similar, or add in deblocking when setting up the DGDecode line in the AviSynth script. Doing it that way, though, softens everything and not just the areas with blocks."

Also, here is what I am doing...Deblock the source (Original source) with avisynth script, then encoded with two passes by using Xvid code...As you can see below, I want my video to be 455MB for each episode. But the outcome, after encoding, still contains blocks when there is movement.

[El Heggunte]

BTW, how can I set Constant Quant 3?

Click on the button "Target Bitrate", it will change to "Target Quantizer".

[jagabo]

630 kbps probably just isn't enough bitrate for your video. But there are a few other things to check:

1) You might want to press the "Load Defaults" button to get everything in a known state -- in case some of the settings are way out of whack.

2) Press the "more" button on the Quality Presets line. Select the Quantization tab. Make sure the min quantizers are set to 1 or 2.

3) Enable Adaptive Quantization.

Target Quantizer 3 will still have a little macroblocking. 2 will pretty much eliminate it. You will have no control over file size when using Target Quantizer mode.

[kenryuakuma]

I do not see the Target Quantizer 3 or something like this.

so jagabo...what you mean is that I have to sacrifice either the file size for quality to eliminate the blocks or quality to get the satisfied file size with blocks?

I am striving for is filesize with decent quality without blocks...It is ok if the video is a bit blurry and all I want is to get rid of the blocks.

Another question is with H.264 for the encoding, I don't see any blocks even if I set the known file size about 300MB or 350MB but see blocks whenever there is movement with xvid and the file size is already 400MB or more? Because of different algorithm for compression?

[jagabo]

I do not see the Target Quantizer 3 or something like this.

Press the "Target Bitrate (kbps)" button. It will change to Target Quantizer. The value next to it is the quantizer value.

so jagabo...what you mean is that I have to sacrifice either the file size for quality to eliminate the blocks or quality to get the satisfied file size with blocks?

Yes.

I am striving for is filesize with decent quality without blocks...It is ok if the video is a bit blurry and all I want is to get rid of the blocks.

If you really need a specific file size you have to use bitrate based encoding. If you are getting too many macroblocks you can reduce the frame size. The smaller the frame the less bitrate it will require. But you're trading off resolution to get fewer macroblocks. You can reduce the frame rate too (fewer frame per second requires less bitrate too) but the video will get jerky. Also, using strong noise reduction filters before compression will reduce the bitrate requirement.

Another question is with H.264 for the encoding, I don't see any blocks even if I set the known file size about 300MB or 350MB but see blocks whenever there is movement with xvid and the file size is already 400MB or more? Because of different algorithm for compression?

h.264 applies a deblocking filter during decompression. And it has other features which allow it to compress better than Xvid.

Xvid has a similar deblocking feature (see the Decoder options) but that will only help on the computer. Hardware players usually don't have the deblocking option.


[/QUOTE]

[kenryuakuma]

I don't think the Target Quantizer exists in the encoder of xvid...It only has target size and target bitrate if I press the button to switch between the two.

These are the pics.

[poisondeathray]

I don't think the Target Quantizer exists in the encoder of xvid...It only has target size and target bitrate if I press the button to switch between the two.

Change it from 2pass to 1pass