PAL or NTSC camera : does it matter ?

[kirby7777]

Hi everyone!


I am going to get a compact camera with HD video function for my next overseas trip. Considering the Sony Cybershot HX9V. I will be using it to take photos and also HD videos.


I am from Australia and we have PAL TV system here. The availability of that camera here is poor and cost $500 or more.
Alternatively I can buy it from eBay (Hong Kong), B&H (USA) or Adorama(USA).
I have bought from reputable sellers on eBay before eg DigitalRev, Citiwide and are comfortable with them. They even have door-to-door warranty service, which to me is just as good if not better then a local warranty.


I gather those sourced from USA will be having NTSC instead of PAL format for their video (and a frame rate of 60p instead of 50p)?


Does it matter if I am going to make Blu Ray home movie out of those AVCHD .mts files?


My concern is that using the NTSC AVCHD files with 60p (instead of PAL AVCHD files with 50p), can I still produce/author the blu ray home movie disc in PAL format to be played in a stand alone Blu Ray player here? I will be using something like TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress

Thanks.

[edDV]

It does matter. You should get the PAL model if you intend to return to Australia. Shop the world for best price.

It is possible to get gray market PAL camcorder models in the USA from some US dealers (usually no warranty) or international warranty supported models in Sony authorized duty free shops. Taxes are the main hassle for expensive items.

But the B & H site claims NTSC/PAL recording in their spec sheet. You should call to confirm or download the US model manual.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/750020-REG/Sony_DSCHX9V_B_DSC_HX7V_Digital_Still_Camera.html

You can also ask them about taxes for Oz tourists and warranty issues.

[kirby7777]

It does matter. You should get the PAL model if you intend to return to Australia. Shop the world for best price.

Thanks.

Can you kindly elaborate why and how it does matter?

[edDV]

It does matter. You should get the PAL model if you intend to return to Australia. Shop the world for best price.

Thanks.

Can you kindly elaborate why and how it does matter?

Assuming you are shooting 1920x1080 or 1280x720, the resolutions are the same but the frame rate differs.

"NTSC" - frame rates 59.94, 29.97, 23.976. HDTV sets run 59.94, 119.88, or other multiple.
"PAL" - frame rates 50.00, 25.00. HDTV sets run 50.00 or 100.00

While it is possible to play either on a computer or most "PAL" TV sets, it is difficult to convert "NTSC" rates to a "PAL" DVD or Blu-Ray disc*. You-tube will take either.

At standard def rates, resolutions differ as well as frame rate.

"NTSC" - 720x480 or 704x480
"PAL" - 720x576 or 702x576


* "PAL" DVD or Blu-Ray only accept "PAL" frame rates.

[kirby7777]

While it is possible to play either on a computer or most "PAL" TV sets, it is difficult to convert "NTSC" rates to a "PAL" DVD or Blu-Ray disc*. You-tube will take either.

OK, so the main issue is the difficulty in converting NTSC AVCHD .mts file to a PAL AVCHD .mts for use in a PAL blu ray movie disc.

Wonder if TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress can do it.

I shall aim to get a PAL version then. It is about $100 more on eBay DigitalRev

By the way the online manual does not spell it out if the camera can be set to either PAL or NTSC. http://esupport.sony.com/docs/dvimag/DSCHX9V_guide/eng/contents/01/index.html

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DSCHX9V_EN_ES.pdf

[kirby7777]

I received my camera from DigitalRev last Friday.
Despite asking them twice and got the replies that the camera they sell are PAL version, sure enough I receive a NTSC version !!!
Most unimpressed!!!

I did some test video shooting in the highest setting of AVCHD (PS – 1920x1080 (60p fps) approx 28Mbps) and photo shooting too.

I can play all the video and photo files from the camera to my Samsung HD Plasma TV via HDMI cable without any issue.

I am managed to author the video files to PAL Blu Ray and PAL DVD using Tmpgenc 4. They seem to be fine. It is hard to tell how good the conversion was because the indoor shooting scenes were not well lit and hence the footage are not as good as they can be.


So the question is: should I return the camera and get a PAL version one with 50p? or maybe just keep it.

By the way, shouldn't NTSC version with 60p (higher frame rate) better than PAL version with 50p?

[edDV]

I received my camera from DigitalRev last Friday.
Despite asking them twice and got the replies that the camera they sell are PAL version, sure enough I receive a NTSC version !!!
Most unimpressed!!!

I did some test video shooting in the highest setting of AVCHD (PS – 1920x1080 (60p fps) approx 28Mbps) and photo shooting too.

I can play all the video and photo files from the camera to my Samsung HD Plasma TV via HDMI cable without any issue.

I am managed to author the video files to PAL Blu Ray and PAL DVD using Tmpgenc 4. They seem to be fine. It is hard to tell how good the conversion was because the indoor shooting scenes were not well lit and hence the footage are not as good as they can be.


So the question is: should I return the camera and get a PAL version one with 50p? or maybe just keep it.

By the way, shouldn't NTSC version with 60p (higher frame rate) better than PAL version with 50p?

Issues with 60p->50p frame rate conversion will show most in scenes with motion. Try shooting action outdoors in good light, then view the conversion.

Good that your TV displays 60p but does it also handle 60i well?

[handyguy]

Some cameras have a Pal/ntsc switch that you can change in a menu.

[Cornucopia]

The thing is, when going from AVCHD camera to AVCHD disc in BD player to TV, there is NO conversion going on, so the quality is as good as can be (based on the quality of the camera and the skill of the shooter).

With conversion, you have loss. And framerate conversion is one of the hardest to get right because of so many things that it influences. So you have MORE loss.

Do you really want to impose that on ALL your personal stuff?

Now, Hong Kong used to be under UK influence, so unless it's changed now that it's part of China, it should be PAL, and items that you get from there (which you mentioned the possibility above) also ought to offer PAL.

Scott

[kirby7777]

The thing is, when going from AVCHD camera to AVCHD disc in BD player to TV, there is NO conversion going on, so the quality is as good as can be (based on the quality of the camera and the skill of the shooter).

What is a AVCHD disc? Is that a Blu Ray disc (after the .mts files are authored into a blu ray movie) or just straight off the same .mts files from the camera (a BD-R with data files and the data files are .mts files)?

Now, Hong Kong used to be under UK influence, so unless it's changed now that it's part of China, it should be PAL, and items that you get from there (which you mentioned the possibility above) also ought to offer PAL.
Scott

Yes, it ought to be PAL and they made a big big mistake.

Some cameras have a Pal/ntsc switch that you can change in a menu.

Unfortunately not for this camera and confirmed with DigitalRev too.

Issues with 60p->50p frame rate conversion will show most in scenes with motion. Try shooting action outdoors in good light, then view the conversion.

Good that your TV displays 60p but does it also handle 60i well?

Just tried the last three modes listed below and they all can be displayed well on my TV.

PS – 1920x1080 (60p fps) approx 28Mbps
FX – 1920x1080 (60i fps) approx 24Mbps
FH – 1920x1080 (60i fps) approx 17 Mbps
HQ – 1440x1080 (60i fps) approx 9Mbps

Issues with 60p->50p frame rate conversion will show most in scenes with motion. Try shooting action outdoors in good light, then view the conversion.

Problem with this one. It is Monday here today and working week start again. It is still winter here so by the time I get home it would be getting dark.

DigitalRev offers to have the camera picked up on Wed. I am running out of time for

1) making an outdoor action shoots
2) making a decision to keep this camera or have it couriered back to Hong Kong for a replacement.