Upgrade Questions

[mccoady]

I have a 4-5 year old locally built desktop computer I'm really happy with that still seems pretty fast to me. I just added a BD writer but now working with BD's and using TMT5, BD-Rebuilder, ImgBurn, etc. I'm finding I need to upgrade my video card which I plan on doing. That got me thinking if it's feasible to upgrade my MB and CPU or even if it's possible.

I don't do any gaming so the main reason for upgrading would be to speed up things for BD-Rebuilder re-encoding or using ImgBurn.

My Computer:
Windows 7 (32 bit)
Intel DG965WH
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 @ 2.13GHz
GeForce 8500 GT
350w power supply
4GB of DDR2 Ram (seeing 3.25GB)

So is it possible/cost effective to upgrade my MB and CPU (in a few months) or is this one of those situations where too many other things would have to be upgraded making it smarter to wait until I could buy a new computer in a couple of years?

[aedipuss]

most likely a start over thing. new m.b. cpu will want ddr3 ram. better vid card will need bigger power supply. maybe the case and drives move over to the new one....

[jagabo]

A better graphics card won't help with video processing unless you're using encoders that support hardware encoding by the graphics card. I think TMTA supports CUDA, for example. Stepping up to a quad core CPU is your best bet. A 350 watt power supply may be anemic for a quad core CPU though.

[Nelson37]

Yeah, you're probably going to end up building an all-new PC. One thing I used to do was buy a complete kit, put the old parts in the new case, and the new parts in the old case. Then sell the new case/old pc as a used PC, the brand-new case gives a worthwhile psychological effect to the buyer. Gets you a few bucks towards the new one.

[mccoady]

Thanks I figured I would need to start over with new but just wanted it confirmed... I don't know enough to build my own computer but my nephew has so I could probably get him to do it.

What all does a decent quad core complete kit (Intel or AMD) consist of and cost?

[aedipuss]

something like this is a decent kit. you'd need to add a video card though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.692927&cm_sp=Dail...692927-_-Combo

[jagabo]

something like this is a decent kit. you'd need to add a video card though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.692927&cm_sp=Dail...692927-_-Combo

Nice.

[mccoady]

something like this is a decent kit. you'd need to add a video card though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.692927&cm_sp=Dail...692927-_-Combo

I've never used anything but Intel but can you get more bang for the buck with AMD?

Since I already have a couple of internal drives in my current computer I don't really need another drive a kit includes, can you save any money by buying only the individual parts you need or is a kit always cheaper in the long run?

[aedipuss]

depends on the day and the sale. the drive in the kit is big and slow, a decent storage drive but i wouldn't use it for a boot drive anyway. amd is just different. maybe a couple bucks cheaper, but i always come back to intel after an amd try as they tend to run hotter and use more power, and i've never had a good o/c experience with amd.

[jagabo]

I've never used anything but Intel but can you get more bang for the buck with AMD?

Not really. They both deliver approximately the same bang for the buck. Except for some specific applications.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sandy-bridge-core-i7-2600k-core-i5-2500k,2833-17.html

Note the MediaEspresso benchmark.

[mccoady]

Thanks guys it looks like I should stay with Intel then.

Keep in mind I've never built a computer before and would need to have someone do this for me but does the newegg kit aedipuss linked to provide everything I would need except of course the video card?

A quad core is more in line with my budget but is it definitely enough for my needs?

[Nelson37]

Only two RAM slots on the Mobo. Absolute deal-breaker for me. Limits your RAM options. You can't get a pair of 2's now and add more later, you have to chuck those and get 2 4's to move up.

Your current video card should be fine if you're not gaming. If your old board has video on it, you can still sell the old rig. The video card should not be a real bottleneck in your original problem.

A better board, power supply, and hard drive will only add about $50-100.00 or less.

Overcloaking possibilities for future, free upgrades should be examined.

A lot depends on how soon you intend to upgrade the next time, and do you want to put a faster chip or more RAM on the existing box, or buy a whole new one again.

Build it yourself, a number two phillips is all you need. Not at all difficult, dropping the CPU on the board with the fan can be a bit persnickety but detailed instructions are available. It will pay for itself in being able to do your own repairs in the future. Also makes incremental upgrades much easier.

I actually did not check how fast a chip your board can take, and the pricing. That board most likely won't overclock, but a 3.2 core 2 would be a pretty nice speed increase for you. IF you could OC it to 4.0 or so, that's a real good extra pop for free. Keep that in mind in your new build.

Unless you are quoting chipset and not board maker? You could possibly be able to get a 20% or more speed increase Right Now.

[olyteddy]

Unless you're gaming the Intel HD graphics should suffice. I bought a core i7 2600 rig from CostCo and it uses the Sandy Bridge built in graphics and has no trouble doing HD. If you're looking for a prefab, the ZT Systems stuff from Costco is a lot of bang for the buck. My rig (i7 2600, 16 GB ram, 2 GB Hard Drive, LiteOn DVD burner and Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse) was $799 and $8 shipping. You also get 90 days hassle free return and 2 year warranty. It does only have a 350 Watt PS.

[jagabo]

Yes, the HD 3000 graphics built into the i5 2500K and i7 2600K, and HD 2000 graphics in the i7 2600 are more powerful than the OP's 8500 GT. A new graphics card would only be necessary for high end gaming.

[aedipuss]

i missed the h67 motherboard included with the kit. so it doesn't require a video card purchase it will use the cpu. sorry!

[usually_quiet]

Thanks I figured I would need to start over with new but just wanted it confirmed... I don't know enough to build my own computer but my nephew has so I could probably get him to do it.

What all does a decent quad core complete kit (Intel or AMD) consist of and cost?

What is best depends on your budget and the software you will use. If your funds are limited, AMD could be worth considering. Several people here have built AMD systems that peform well for video-related tasks. Intel still has the fastest CPUS, but few people find their best affordable. Some Intel CPUs have lower TDPs than the closest AMD equivalent, but not all do. AMD builds can be overclocked successfully, especially using a motherboard designed with over-clocking in mind and a black edition CPU.

AMD motherboards and CPUs with nearly equivalent performance often do cost less than Intel products. Current AMD dual cores and current Intel dual cores perform about the same for the most part at the same price point. Some i3 and i5 dual core CPUs perform much better, but also cost much more that the competing AMD dual cores.

The over-all fastest AMD CPU mutlticore is the Phenom II X6 1100T, which costs $190. The Intel products with similar benchmark scores in Jagabo's link are the i7 875K, which costs $330, the i7-950 at $260 and Core i5-2500K at $220. However, the Core i5-2500K scored lower in tests where applications could use all 6 cores. The 4-core AMD Phenom II x 4 840 costs about $110. I haven't heard of anything sold by Intel at close to the same price that offers significantly better over-all performance. The i3 2100 comes closest at this price, but won't perform as well with applications that can use 4 cores. AMD is coming out with some new APUs that are incompatible with Socket AM3. These include and integrated GPUs along with the CPU. They don't perform as well as Intel's Sandy Bridge line on the CPU side, but offer better integrated graphics.

I built a Socket AM3 system in 2009. It was my first build and I had no significant problems. I picked socket AM3 because it would be possible to upgrade my CPU to a quad core in a couple of years for around $100, if I wanted to. All I could afford on the Intel side was Socket 775, which had no future, and still cost a little more. plus, Core 2 Quads would be my only choice for CPU upgrades and they were not cheap. I found it easy to use the clips on the motherboard to mount the stock heat sink on the CPU. Apparently, installing the heat sink for Intel products is not as easy. I remember seeing complaints about an Intel mounting system that uses plastic pins to secure the heat sink to the motherboard, but I don't know if that is still the system they use.

[jagabo]

The over-all fastest AMD CPU mutlticore is the Phenom II X6 1100T, which costs $190. The Intel products with similar benchmark scores in Jagabo's link are the i7 875K, which costs $330, the i7-950 at $260 and Core i5-2500K at $220. However, the Core i5-2500K scored lower in tests where applications could use all 6 cores.

Some comparisons of the 1100T and 2500K:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/compare,2421.html?prod%5B47...d%5B4788%5D=on

Note that in some benchmarks bigger is better, in others smaller is better.

[usually_quiet]

The over-all fastest AMD CPU mutlticore is the Phenom II X6 1100T, which costs $190. The Intel products with similar benchmark scores in Jagabo's link are the i7 875K, which costs $330, the i7-950 at $260 and Core i5-2500K at $220. However, the Core i5-2500K scored lower in tests where applications could use all 6 cores.

Some comparisons of the 1100T and 2500K:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/compare,2421.html?prod%5B47...d%5B4788%5D=on

Note that in some benchmarks bigger is better, in others smaller is better.

The Phenom II X6 1100T beats or ties the Core i5-2500K in some of these tests, and looses in others. AMDs fastest Phenom II x4's also beat the Phenom II X6 1100T in some tests where the clock speed is the only thing that matters, not the number of cores. Getting an Core i5-2500K will still cost a bit more (at least $40-$50), after factoring in the cost of a good motherboard for both, with similar features. It may or may not be worth it, depending on what tasks the PC is being used to do.

[jagabo]

The Phenom II X6 1100T beats or ties the Core i5-2500K in some of these tests, and looses in others. AMDs fastest Phenom II x4's also beat the Phenom II X6 1100T in some tests where the clock speed is the only thing that matters, not the number of cores. Getting an Core i5-2500K will still cost a bit more (at least $40-$50), after factoring in the cost of a good motherboard for both, with similar features. It may or may not be worth it, depending on what tasks the PC is being used to do.

I'd say the balance is in favor of the i5 2500K. But the OP may weigh the results differently. And the motherboards for the i5 may be a little more expensive. I got an i5 2500K for $180 and a z68 motherboard for $115 last week.

By the way, the HD 3000 graphics is the first Intel graphics device I've found that has acceptable performance for the Desktop and casual gaming!

[mccoady]

Now I'm more confused than ever whether I should be looking at Phenom II X6 1100T or Core i5-2500K but unless someone recommends differently I guess I'm leaning toward the latter.

Since I'm not looking to upgrade today but rather in a few months maybe my best approach would be to watch newegg specials and whenever a specific item I need is discounted like MB, CPU, Case, and RAM I could snap it up. Since my current computer works fine I could gradually collects the parts I needed but I would need to know which devices to be watching.

The newegg kit that was linked to included:

1x COOLER MASTER Elite 310 RC-310-BKR2-GP Black with blue front panel Steel Body / ABS plastic front bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 420W Power Supply (Model:RC-310-BKR2-GP) $59.99


1x MSI H67MA-E35 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard (Model:H67MA-E35 (B3)) $84.99



1x Intel Core i5-2500 Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500 (Model:BX80623I52500) $209.99


1x G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT (Model:F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT) $49.99

On any of the above do you see where a little better component might be a better choice?

[aedipuss]

about the only component that might come down in price is the cpu. as new ones come out they naturally slowly decline in value. ram is volatile and can swing widely in price either way depending on supply, right now seems to be a very low point. motherboards, cases and psu's seem to stay level, except when "on sale". free shipping on heavy items like those can make a big difference.

[jagabo]

Keep in mind I've never built a computer before and would need to have someone do this for me but does the newegg kit aedipuss linked to provide everything I would need except of course the video card?

An operating system? You may not be able to transfer your Windows license from your old computer.

You don't need a video card. The built in HD 3000 graphics are fine for the desktop and light gaming. About the only exception would be if you have your heart set on using a CUDA (Nvidia GPU) encoder. But in my experience the quad core i5 is almost as fast as CUDA and delivers better quality.

Of course, you need a hard drive, DVD drive, keyboard, mouse, and monitor if you aren't using the device from your current system.

[aedipuss]

the kit has a hard drive and dvd burner. the h.d. is a 1.5TB 5900rpm drive - good for data storage but a little slower than a 7200 i'd use for a boot drive.

the part of the "package" that would turn me off is that it includes a "$50" cd of oem panda internet security. more likely a giveaway worth nothing to inflate the "savings" as the oem cd includes no support and doesn't even list how long it's good for.

[jagabo]

the kit has a hard drive and dvd burner. the h.d. is a 1.5TB 5900rpm drive - good for data storage but a little slower than a 7200 i'd use for a boot drive.

Oh yes, sorry. I was looking at the partial list mccoady posted later.

[mccoady]

I'm not allowed to transfer my Windows 7 license from my current computer to a new computer I would build?

I would want to transfer from my current computer my hard drives, BD drive, dvd drive, keyboard, mouse and monitor.

I won't be buying the kit from newegg but so far this will be on my watchlist to buy:
1. i5-2500K
2. RAM - whatever brand is cheapest when I'm ready to buy but at least 8GB

So that leaves the MB and case. I would like 4 slots for RAM so can you recommend a little better MB I see Jagabo mentioned buying a z68 motherboard is this a better MB and if so can you recommend a specific one to put on my watchlist?

Is the Cooler Master Elite 310 a good enough case to fit most situations or would you recommend something better?

I would plan on using the built-in HD 3000 graphics at least for awhile anyway.

[jagabo]

I'm not allowed to transfer my Windows 7 license from my current computer to a new computer I would build?

It depends on which version you have and how closely you want to follow the license agreement. If you have a full retail version you can transfer it to a new computer. If you have a system builder's OEM disc you're not allowed to transfer it do another computer. But if you tell Microsoft your motherboard died and you replaced it they'll usually allow the transfer. If you have a pre-installed OEM license (like those that come with Dell or HP computers) you cannot transfer the license -- those versions check the BIOS for the OEM name.

Regarding other hardware I got this motherboard from NewEgg ($115 plus ~$8 shipping):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157252

And my i5 2500K ($180), memory ($52 after rebate), and cooler ($15 after rebate, in case I decide to overclock) from the local Fry's.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

The rest of the parts came from an existing system.

There was one problem with the motherboard. Windows 7 Home Premium (original release) installed ok but when I installed the Intel graphics driver the system became un-bootable (had to use System Restore to get back to a bootable state). Different versions of the driver didn't make any difference. I finally (many Z68 motherboards are having this problem) found that I needed to let Windows install all updates up to and including SP1 (about 100 updates) before installing the graphics driver. I had to set Windows Update to not automatically install updates because one of the first updates it tries to install is the graphics driver. Each time I went to Windows Update (about 5 times) I had to un-tick the graphics driver update. Once SP1 was installed I was able to install the graphics driver. The system has been running fine since then -- about 5 days.

Those memory modules are very tall. They may interfere with the CPU cooler or disk drive slots in some cases.

[mccoady]

Jagabo I had my computer built by a local computer store and then used Windows 7 Upgrade version so does that mean I can't transfer it? If so that kind of puts a crimp in my computer build because that would require spending a lot more.

I figured a cooler came with the CPU or are you saying that you only need to buy a better one for overclocking?

So would you recommend staying away from a Z68 MB in general (or a particular brand) for a first time builder or just make sure to follow your instructions above?

What do you think of the Cooler Master Elite 310 case?

Those memory modules are very tall. They may interfere with the CPU cooler or disk drive slots in some cases.

What do you mean?

[usually_quiet]

The Phenom II X6 1100T beats or ties the Core i5-2500K in some of these tests, and looses in others. AMDs fastest Phenom II x4's also beat the Phenom II X6 1100T in some tests where the clock speed is the only thing that matters, not the number of cores. Getting an Core i5-2500K will still cost a bit more (at least $40-$50), after factoring in the cost of a good motherboard for both, with similar features. It may or may not be worth it, depending on what tasks the PC is being used to do.

I'd say the balance is in favor of the i5 2500K. But the OP may weigh the results differently. And the motherboards for the i5 may be a little more expensive. I got an i5 2500K for $180 and a z68 motherboard for $115 last week.

By the way, the HD 3000 graphics is the first Intel graphics device I've found that has acceptable performance for the Desktop and casual gaming!

I think many people could be happy with either an AMD or Intel system. A Phenom II x6 1100T will be a bit faster than an i5 2500K for software that can use all its cores. Handbrake is a well-known example of this kind of software. If you recall, redwudz, has an impressive system built around an older Thuban model. He is quite pleased with it, and uses AMD onboard graphics. I use AMD onboard graphics (785G chipset) and I am satisfied with them. AMD's similar newer 880G and 890G onboard graphics are also good for general use and video. Casual gaming can be too much for them. AMD components do go on sale as well. That being said, sales, free shipping, and rebates can be great, but you can't always find these when you need them.

[TBoneit]

[QUOTE=usually_quiet;2095902]

. Apparently, installing the heat sink for Intel products is not as easy. I remember seeing complaints about an Intel mounting system that uses plastic pins to secure the heat sink to the motherboard, but I don't know if that is still the system they use.

They still use that system first introduced win the socket 775. The only time I see a problem is careless users. I always make sure the plastic is through the hole. Then I Press and lock them in a criss-cross patern.

I look under the board before pressing the lock and after to make sure they are locked properly. I always worry with the AMD that the lever will fail. YMMV.

[usually_quiet]

I'm not allowed to transfer my Windows 7 license from my current computer to a new computer I would build?

I would want to transfer from my current computer my hard drives, BD drive, dvd drive, keyboard, mouse and monitor.

I won't be buying the kit from newegg but so far this will be on my watchlist to buy:
1. i5-2500K
2. RAM - whatever brand is cheapest when I'm ready to buy but at least 8GB

So that leaves the MB and case. I would like 4 slots for RAM so can you recommend a little better MB I see Jagabo mentioned buying a z68 motherboard is this a better MB and if so can you recommend a specific one to put on my watchlist?

Is the Cooler Master Elite 310 a good enough case to fit most situations or would you recommend something better?

I would plan on using the built-in HD 3000 graphics at least for awhile anyway.

You need to look at any motherboard and make sure that the onboard connections and external connections you need are available. If you typically use a lot of add-on cards, you might prefer an ATX motherboard. Gigabyte usually makes a good solid product.

There are better cases than that Cooler Master. The included PSU is probably not one of their best. It is better to buy the PSU and case separately if possible, to get a better PSU. A cheap PSU could take a lot of other components with it if it dies violently. You really need to set a budget for this project before you start picking out components.