Edges look jagged, and lines across the video.

[killerteengohan]

Im having a problem with my video that I have not yet encountered before. If you look at the area around the guys eyes about where the eyelashes would be attached for example. It looks really jagged almost as if IVTC was done wrong but I know it was placed in the script and is being done properly. MeGui is usually very good at this part so I trust it. I just cant help feel there is a parameter or something I should add to the IVTC part in the script. So far IVTC and 640x480 resize is the only thing being done to it in this script. The IVTC is set as tfm(order=1).tdecimate()

Does anyone know what this is and or how to fix it with a script so that its smooth and straight like in the DVD??


TOP = DVD
BOTTOM = Mine








In this example look on the guys face, especially the mouth area. You will notice in the DVD its looks alot more smooth but in mine you can see lines going across his face in the gold area if you look hard enough and the edges are jagged as well.


TOP = DVD
BOTTOM = Mine







Does anyone know what this is and or how to fix it with a script so that its smooth and straight like in the DVD??

[manono]

It looks to me like the parts you're pointing out have been deinterlaced. If it was only field matched it should appear exactly as the source. You could take the script and add 'Display=True' into TFM to find out if many frames are being deinterlaced. When you run the preview in DGIndex, is it NTSC or show as a high percentage of Film? If Film or a very high percentage of Film, better would be to use the D2V option in TFM. That would guarantee (pretty much) no deinterlacing of film frames.

[killerteengohan]

It looks to me like the parts you're pointing out have been deinterlaced. If it was only field matched it should appear exactly as the source. You could take the script and add 'Display=True' into TFM to find out if many frames are being deinterlaced. When you run the preview in DGIndex, is it NTSC or show as a high percentage of Film? If Film or a very high percentage of Film, better would be to use the D2V option in TFM. That would guarantee (pretty much) no deinterlacing of film frames.

Of course its been deinterlaced, I mentioned that I was using an IVTC script and I felt it wasnt fully doing its job. I wanted to be sure but it seems its a deinterlace problem for sure since you mentioned it. It is Film almost 100%. This is the first time MeGui has deinterlaced a video for me and it ended up still having these. Its usually perfect at deinterlacing for me. Thats why Im asking what it is.

[Cornucopia]

If I understand correctly, what manono is talking about is NOT IVTC, but true, destructive deinterlacing. You say you trust your script, be we don't know it from Adam, so that is the 1st place I would look.
Also, if you've got DVD as your source, I'd suggest porting through DGDecode first as your AVISynth source.

Scott

[manono]

Of course its been deinterlaced, I mentioned that I was using an IVTC script and I felt it wasnt fully doing its job.

Cornucopia's right. There's a fundamental difference between an IVTC and a deinterlace. Since the film percentage is so high, I'd first make the D2V using 'Honor Pulldown Flags' and then use the D2V option in TFM, as I mentioned before:


TFM(D2V="c:\oursource.d2v")
TDecimate(Mode=1)

That way the flagging will be ignored for the film frames and only the video portions will undergo the IVTC. This is all explained in the TIVTC docs. Again, you can put on the 'Display=True' and check if the problem frames are being post-processed (deinterlaced) after the field matching.

You could even take a small chance and make the D2V as 'Force Film' which will give you a 23.976fps video without needing an IVTC at all. That can sometimes be a little bit risky, though, with a percentage less than 100%. I'm assuming the problem frames aren't being caused by the resize (not likely) or any other filtering being done in the script (always possible, I suppose).

I don't use MeGUI and have no idea what you can do as far as editing or testing your scripts within that program.

[killerteengohan]

Of course its been deinterlaced, I mentioned that I was using an IVTC script and I felt it wasnt fully doing its job.

Cornucopia's right. There's a fundamental difference between an IVTC and a deinterlace. Since the film percentage is so high, I'd first make the D2V using 'Honor Pulldown Flags' and then use the D2V option in TFM, as I mentioned before:


TFM(D2V="c:\oursource.d2v")
TDecimate(Mode=1)

That way the flagging will be ignored for the film frames and only the video portions will undergo the IVTC. This is all explained in the TIVTC docs. Again, you can put on the 'Display=True' and check if the problem frames are being post-processed (deinterlaced) after the field matching.

You could even take a small chance and make the D2V as 'Force Film' which will give you a 23.976fps video without needing an IVTC at all. That can sometimes be a little bit risky, though, with a percentage less than 100%. I'm assuming the problem frames aren't being caused by the resize (not likely) or any other filtering being done in the script (always possible, I suppose).

I don't use MeGUI and have no idea what you can do as far as editing or testing your scripts within that program.

That method screwed it up even more than it is now. Thats an improper deinterlace apparently.

[manono]

Do you have a sample then, one that you say got screwed up by using the script I gave above? Or one that includes some of the frames you showed earlier? 10 seconds with movement should be plenty.

[killerteengohan]

Do you have a sample then, one that you say got screwed up by using the script I gave above? Or one that includes some of the frames you showed earlier? 10 seconds with movement should be plenty.

I could make a sample, but all it did was make the deinterlacing look more like it wasnt deinterlaced thats all. So you can actually see it a bit easier than what MeGui already had it at. Almost as if it needed a different type of deinterlace.


According to MeGui's analysis its

Source Type: FILM
Field Order: Top Field First
Deinterlace: TIVTC


DGINDEX says

Frame Rate: 23.976024
Video Type: NTSC
Frame Struct: Frame
Frame Type: Interlaced
Field Order: Top

I noticed sometimes these programs will both say something different such as MeGui will say Progressive and DGINDEX will say film. I encoded with Megui and it was perfect. Thats not with this current video Im doing but I have seen it happen.

If you still wish for or need a sample, just tell me and Ill make one. I could also show the script Im using.

Adding TIsophote to the script seemed to help by about 70% with the jagged edges around eyes and stuff but its still noticeable if your picky about it.

It seems cropping 2 from the top and sides before being resized also helped a bit with the lines but not fully.


This seemed easier when I was using VirtualDubMod back in the day when I loved AVI lol but now theres h.264 and MKV format.

Thanks for the help Im getting, I appreciate it alot.

[manono]

As for DGIndex, you have it set for Force Film so it says 23.976fps. Had you set it for Honor Pulldown Flags it would say 29.97fps. What's important is that it says NTSC, meaning it's hard telecine or parts may even be pure video, or maybe field blended. If you were to check the bottom of the D2V file, my guess is that it says 100.00% VIDEO, and not Film almost 100% as you said earlier.

MeGUI uses Film in a different (and more confusing, because it's different) sense than does DGIndex.

Yes, no real help can be given without a sample.

[killerteengohan]

As for DGIndex, you have it set for Force Film so it says 23.976fps. Had you set it for Honor Pulldown Flags it would say 29.97fps. What's important is that it says NTSC, meaning it's hard telecine or parts may even be pure video, or maybe field blended. If you were to check the bottom of the D2V file, my guess is that it says 100.00% VIDEO, and not Film almost 100% as you said earlier.

MeGUI uses Film in a different (and more confusing, because it's different) sense than does DGIndex.

Yes, no real help can be given without a sample.

Ok I have 3 video samples and 3 screenshots for you.



SAMPLES

All 3 clips are in one zip file.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5SI91N7A

Mine = Mine
Yours = Your Script TFM(D2V="c:\oursource.d2v") TDecimate(Mode=1)
MineTIsophote = Mine With TIsophote added in the script.



SCREENSHOTS

TOP = Mine
MIDDLE = Your Script TFM(D2V="c:\oursource.d2v") TDecimate(Mode=1)
BOTTOM = Mine With TIsophote added in the script.











Overall it looks like my original script and your script you told me to use look almost 100% identical. The one with TIsophote added in seems to look better to me but it doesnt fix all of the lines in the video sadly. It just makes the jagged edges look better. I just hope it doesnt come with any bad side effects that I dont know about. I havent noticed any yet.



TIsophote may have made jagged edges look better but it still didnt fix the deinterlace issue and the lines I cant stand. Youll see what Im talking about again if you look at her lips. Its also noticeable on skin and sometimes the hair.

TOP = Mine
BOTTOM = DVD








So whats causing this and how can I get rid of these lines?? I dont see them barely at all when I play the VOB. (Perhaps I could give a 10 second VOB from my DVD for you to test a script on?)

[manono]

By sample, one generally means a sample from the untouched source DVD, not one that's already been reencoded. Cut a piece using DGindex (File->Save Project and Demux Video) and upload it to MediaFire (much preferred over MegaUpload). I deleted what I downloaded as soon as I saw what you had made available.

[killerteengohan]

By sample, one generally means a sample from the untouched source DVD, not one that's already been reencoded. Cut a piece using DGindex (File->Save Project and Demux Video) and upload it to MediaFire (much preferred over MegaUpload). I deleted what I downloaded as soon as I saw what you had made available.

Sorry I wasnt aware you meant untouched, I thought you meant a sample of what my encode looks like so you could see for yourself the script you made.

heres your untouched sample from DGINDEX

http://www.mediafire.com/?c4ffrls70h4rzys

[poisondeathray]

There is aliasing in your animation to begin with (jaggy , stair-steppy edges)

Search for "anti aliasing filters" ; there are dozens to choose from. I used santiag in this example. If you want it softer, use AAA() which is meant for a soft animation antialiasing function. You could also use a softer resize like bilinear resize if you wanted a softer image

How did you take your "dvd" screenshots? What software? It's obviously been antialiased, and is a lot blurrier

Compare this to your the 2 screenshots in your 1st post (save it to your desktop and flip back & forth)

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF() 
TFM()
TDecimate()
Santiag()
LanczosResize(640,480)

[manono]

I see it now and you're absolutely right. And I have no idea how to fix it. But I bet others around here will know how to fix it. How are you playing the DVD that you don't have that? A software player on the computer? The reason I ask is that I see it on the 3 out of 5 frames that aren't interlaced in the raw sample. That is, it seems to me to be like that in the source.

Edit: I had the reply sitting around for half an hour before posting and pdr gave you a better answer. Thanks!

[killerteengohan]

There is aliasing in your animation to begin with (jaggy , stair-steppy edges)

Search for "anti aliasing filters" ; there are dozens to choose from. I used santiag in this example. If you want it softer, use AAA() which is meant for a soft animation antialiasing function. You could also use a softer resize like bilinear resize if you wanted a softer image

How did you take your "dvd" screenshots? What software? It's obviously been antialiased, and is a lot blurrier

Compare this to your the 2 screenshots in your 1st post (save it to your desktop and flip back & forth)

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF() 
TFM()
TDecimate()
Santiag()
LanczosResize(640,480)

I gotta admit, I like your screenshot quite a bit better than mine. I was taking my screenshots in Windows Media Player, and those screenshots were of my encodes after the scripts were run.

Yeah thats what TIsophote was, an anti alias filter I believe. I never heard of Santiag untill now, I cant even find the plugin for download sadly. I was thinking about AAA but I heard it comes out less sharp than TIsophote and thats why I went with TIsophote. Is that all I need to do pretty much is just copy and paste

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF() 
TFM()
TDecimate()
Santiag()
LanczosResize(640,480)

I dont need to add any extra parameters to it or anything?


Thanks for your time and the help you gave.

Could you possibly send me the plugins I need for santiag if I dont already have them? maybe in mediafire or megaupload?

[poisondeathray]

Could you possibly send me the plugins I need for santiag if I dont already have them? maybe in mediafire?

santiag

 
 
Function santiag (clip c, int "strh", int "strv")
{
 strh = Default (strh, 1)
 strv = Default (strv, 1)
 c
 (strh >= 0) ? santiag_dir (strh) : last
 (strv >= 0) ? TurnLeft ().santiag_dir (strv).TurnRight () : last
}
Function santiag_dir (clip c, int strength)
{
 c
 w = Width ()
 h = Height ()
 santiag_stronger (strength)
 Spline36Resize (w, h, 0, 0.5, w, h * 2)
}
Function santiag_stronger (clip c, int strength)
{
 c
 (strength <= 0)
\ ? NNEDI3 (dh=true, field=0)
\ : santiag_stronger (strength - 1)
\ . NNEDI3 (dh=false, field=(strength % 2))
}

NNEDI3
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=147695


If you ever need to find something, use search terms like "avisynth doom9 + filter" , or "avisynth mediawiki + filter"
("filter" is the filter you are looking for )


I hesitate to post plugins and functions because sometimes I have made modifications - I recommend getting the filters always from the original sources, because that way you get the official , most up to date releases. For example the newest NNEDI3 is about 10-20% faster than the older versions

[killerteengohan]

Could you possibly send me the plugins I need for santiag if I dont already have them? maybe in mediafire?

santiag

 
 
Function santiag (clip c, int "strh", int "strv")
{
 strh = Default (strh, 1)
 strv = Default (strv, 1)
 c
 (strh >= 0) ? santiag_dir (strh) : last
 (strv >= 0) ? TurnLeft ().santiag_dir (strv).TurnRight () : last
}
Function santiag_dir (clip c, int strength)
{
 c
 w = Width ()
 h = Height ()
 santiag_stronger (strength)
 Spline36Resize (w, h, 0, 0.5, w, h * 2)
}
Function santiag_stronger (clip c, int strength)
{
 c
 (strength <= 0)
\ ? NNEDI3 (dh=true, field=0)
\ : santiag_stronger (strength - 1)
\ . NNEDI3 (dh=false, field=(strength % 2))
}

NNEDI3
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=147695


If you ever need to find something, use search terms like "avisynth doom9 + filter" , or "avisynth mediawiki + filter"
("filter" is the filter you are looking for )


I hesitate to post plugins and functions because sometimes I have made modifications - I recommend getting the filters always from the original sources, because that way you get the official , most up to date releases. For example the newest NNEDI3 is about 10-20% faster than the older versions

Thanks, I use Doom9 to learn alot and get alot of my stuff as well.

I take it your code you posted like i pasted below is what I use to make the avsi file? And then I just download NNEDI3 and put them into my plugins folder?

 
 
Function santiag (clip c, int "strh", int "strv")
{
 strh = Default (strh, 1)
 strv = Default (strv, 1)
 c
 (strh >= 0) ? santiag_dir (strh) : last
 (strv >= 0) ? TurnLeft ().santiag_dir (strv).TurnRight () : last
}
Function santiag_dir (clip c, int strength)
{
 c
 w = Width ()
 h = Height ()
 santiag_stronger (strength)
 Spline36Resize (w, h, 0, 0.5, w, h * 2)
}
Function santiag_stronger (clip c, int strength)
{
 c
 (strength <= 0)
\ ? NNEDI3 (dh=true, field=0)
\ : santiag_stronger (strength - 1)
\ . NNEDI3 (dh=false, field=(strength % 2))
}

[poisondeathray]

I take it your code you posted like i pasted below is what I use to make the avsi file? And then I just download NNEDI3 and put them into my plugins folder?

yes, copy & paste into an .avsi file in the plugins folder if you want it autoloading. Same with NNEDI3, put the .dll into the plugins folder if you want it autoloading

If you want to manual load, use LoadPlugin() for .dll's and Import() for .avs files (or just copy that function to the bottom of the script)

[killerteengohan]

I take it your code you posted like i pasted below is what I use to make the avsi file? And then I just download NNEDI3 and put them into my plugins folder?

yes, copy & paste into an .avsi file in the plugins folder if you want it autoloading. Same with NNEDI3, put the .dll into the plugins folder if you want it autoloading

If you want to manual load, use LoadPlugin() for .dll's and Import() for .avs files (or just copy that function to the bottom of the script)

Alrighty, I have it working and you are officially my hero on this subject ha ha.


So were those lines on the face of the golden headed guy that go across horizontally all the way across considered aliasing as well? I only knew of anti aliasing as jagged lines on edges such as hairtips and stuff. Outer lines to things, not the inside as well. It looked like I didnt deinterlace at all.