HELP! looking for a stand alone NON-TV Capture unit

[lostinlodos]

If anyone can point me in the right direction: I'm looking for something that can capture analogue line audio/video from:
Stereo VHS, BETA, JVC VideoDisk, and
MONO VCD
that does not use a computer at any point in the capture process.

But after recording I want to dump the created files to my computer for editing and eventually convert them to DivX/XviD DVDs.

I've read rumours that some Tivo devices can do this but I wan't to be sure before I go dumping money on more products that don't work; or paying for TV recording when I will NEVER have the device plugged into the TV feed.
I had a Pinnacle Video Transfer http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Home+Video/Studio+...o+Recorder.htmunit that lasted quite some time before it died out. Worked great as it saved to USB sticks that I could transfer to my PC later. The price on the unit has almost doubled now though since it's no longer made and the sync issues don't warrant a $100+ purchase.

Also if it makes a difference I'll be recording mostly SD/LD VHS and VCD in NTSC and some VHS tapes in PAL.
I think i'm basicly looking for a DVR like from the cable and IPTV companies but for recording non-tv footage. Maybe a camcorder with line-in recording? or something else along those lines that won't cost over $100-$150. I've seen some cheap camcorders on Amazon in the 30-50 range but they don't seem to have line in support.

[usually_quiet]

Few camcorders have AV inputs, only outputs. Sometimes older DV camcorders were used to convert an incoming analog signal to DV and output it over firewire, and then the DV signal was captured on a PC. (The camcorder feature is called "analog to digital pass-through".) However, the camera wasn't used to record the incoming analog signal. I've never seen mention of them being able to do that.

The closest thing I know of to what you want that can do a respectable job digitizing analog tapes is a DVD recorder with an HDD, but they don't meet all your requirements. All models with an HDD that I have seen have TV tuners of some type, and the only way to transfer video off the HDD is to burn it to DVD. Unless you make a lucky find on eBay or a garage sale, anything decent in working condition will cost between $170 and $600. Nobody makes these for the US market anymore other than Magnavox/Funai. Anything else is left-over stock, used, refurbished, or gray-market imports.

There are also some tunerless DVD-only recorders. Nobody makes these for the US market anymore other than Toshiba/Funai. Anything else is left-over stock, refurbished, used, or gray-market imports. Sometimes used or refurbs can be found at a low cost, but they are in short supply.

The gray market import recorders of both kinds usually record PAL as PAL and NTSC as NTSC, rather than converting between the two standards. I'm not sure which models made for the US market can record PAL input.

Sony makes this for videography http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VRDMC6-DVDirect-Compact-Recording/dp/B002EVP85K However, it has no HDD and records only directly to DVD. I don't know if it can handle PAL.

[lostinlodos]

Thanks; that at least eliminates camcorders.

Is there any standalone DVR/PVR units that can bring untuned (read A/V in) video in directly from the composite (RCA) lines and record it? That's basically what I'm aiming for. I wan't to record to a drive or flash memory without the computer directly from a video feed.
Then I want to plug the box into the computer and grab the files off and copy them to my system to edit separately using my preferred software tools.
I've read that some people used Tivo and Replay units set to channel 0 or 1 to record but there's no mention of getting the files OFF the drive after that. Not to mention they're not the most reliable sources either; so I come here where the smart people go.

I am not quick to trust anything that streams real-time from a device to the computer for capture as I've read all over about sync issues that are beyond repair; frame-loss, and all sorts of other problems. Not to mention the loss of use of my computer for two to four hours.

[guns1inger]

My old Panasonic NV-MX7 PAL DV camera can do pass-through and record from analogue input directly to DV tape. It won't record macrovision protected material without a TBC in-between though.

Some PVRs can record from external sources, but like the Tivo option, you would have to look carefully at how to get the footage off again. The other issue with most of these options is that they record in high-compression lossy formats that don't lend themselves to further editing or manipulation without causing further loss.

[lostinlodos]

Thanks

Is there any guide/instruction to the likes of say, Tivo, or other PVRs and suggestions on good choices.

Quality is not my most important concern. AVSync is.

[lingyi]

You mention not wanting to use a PC, but you can easily make your own PVR out of a cheap PC off of Craigslist and a capture card.

I use a P4 I got off of Craigslist with a Radeon 7500 All In Wonder to capture video with no A/V sync or dropped frames. I copy the video to an external hard drives to transfer to my main PC and do what I want with it.

Lots of people selling used P4 PCs on Craigslist for $50 - $75, All in Wonder was $25 from Ebay, add a small monitor for $25-$30 and you're ready to go! If there's encoding to be done, I'll transfer the video back to the capture PC and let it do it's thing while using my main PC for other tasks.

Something interesting you mentioned and just curious about Mono VCDs. Are these VCDs from India that have an uncrackable copy prodection? That's the only reason I can see you would need to copy them as analog video.

[jman98]

Something interesting you mentioned and just curious about Mono VCDs. Are these VCDs from India that have an uncrackable copy prodection? That's the only reason I can see you would need to copy them as analog video.

We've had threads on those before. They're not really uncrackable but they do require a rather high level of expertise to copy as they use the old "bad sectors" protection method.

[lostinlodos]

Something interesting you mentioned and just curious about Mono VCDs. Are these VCDs from India that have an uncrackable copy prodection? That's the only reason I can see you would need to copy them as analog video.

Actually I meant monologue audio. As some VCDs have dual-mono (two languages) and some have joint-mono single language, for 'replicated' stereo.

My real reason for looking for a standalone PVR is to plug in the player, push play and record, and walk away. If that makes sense. That PVTU (link above) I had was great; but as I said it failed after a while, and the resolution was crappy to boot.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks; that at least eliminates camcorders.

Is there any standalone DVR/PVR units that can bring untuned (read A/V in) video in directly from the composite (RCA) lines and record it? That's basically what I'm aiming for. I wan't to record to a drive or flash memory without the computer directly from a video feed.
Then I want to plug the box into the computer and grab the files off and copy them to my system to edit separately using my preferred software tools.
I've read that some people used Tivo and Replay units set to channel 0 or 1 to record but there's no mention of getting the files OFF the drive after that. Not to mention they're not the most reliable sources either; so I come here where the smart people go.

I am not quick to trust anything that streams real-time from a device to the computer for capture as I've read all over about sync issues that are beyond repair; frame-loss, and all sorts of other problems. Not to mention the loss of use of my computer for two to four hours.

I understood what you wanted, but that device doesn't exist as far as I know, and would likely cost much more than $100 if it did. There are certainly problems connected with PC capture, but you are mistaken if you think some of the same problems won't crop up using something else for capture.

There is a reason I suggested DVD recorders. They have special circuitry that can reduce the effects of noise and some other defects when digitizing analog tapes, although some DVD recorders produce better results from analog tape sources than others. I haven't seen reports that TiVos or other HDD-only DVRs have anything like that.

Most TiVos are useless for recording from any source without a paid up subscription for TiVo service. As far as I know, only Series 1 TiVos could record without a TiVo subscription (as well as record from normal AV inputs), but I'm not sure if the "no subscription required" part is true for all of them. Early TiVos were made by a few different companies and features varied somewhat between the different versions. I also don't know if there is any easy way to transfer recordings from a Series 1 TiVo to a PC. To transfer recordings off the newer TiVo's HDDs to a PC, there is TiVo Desktop and kmttg, but I don't think those can be used with any of the Series 1 TiVos. The Series 1 TiVos I saw did not have an ethernet port for networking like the newer TiVos. They only had a telephone jack.

While there are other kinds of HDD DVRs other than TiVo sold for use with cable, antenna or satellite TV, they don't have analog AV inputs, and can only record from their tuners, so they won't be useful for what you want to do.

I have heard of security DVRs being adapted for use as video recorders, but I don't think they are likely to be a good option for you. They are made to accept input from security cameras, not AV equipment, and based on some of the questions we see here getting recordings off of them can be difficult. Plus, they may not be able to record at resolutions you want to use. They often use highly compressed formats for storing recordings, and converting from these highly compressed formats to something else will only cause more quality loss.

You may see the ZIO Markus-700 Hard Drive Media Player & Recorder and similar on ebay. The descriptions for these products make them sound like they can do it all, but the tech specs seem sketchy. Also, the same hardware has been sold in the UK and EU (as the Ellion HMR-700A or under other names) for a few years, but I have not seen much about them in any AV forum I visit. Members of this and similar forums would normally be all over anything like this that actually worked well for recording multiple types of AV sources, so I would be suspicious of them.

[lostinlodos]

Got it. usually_quiet. Thanks for the long and detailed response. I'll be looking into a DVD burner shortly since that seems to be foolproof. Now I need some blank RWs too!
The only do-it-all I ever had seen that worked was the Pinnacle and even that had sync issues, not to mention FAT limitations.
I miss my little Pinnacle though.

Again thanks