What kind of camcorder should I get to film pigeons flying?

[Cornucopia]

Weird S#!T, but interesting.

Too bad you can't put little "tracking tags" on a couple and have a motorized cam do a follow pan (like they do with Surgeons & Operating theatre lights), that would allow you to be MUCH more zoomed in on a few birds and get better resolution (the only thing I found lacking in your example)...

Scott

[poisondeathray]

Haha that last bird was crazy

The falcons were probably thinking: " this guy is nuts... I'm not going near him!"

[budwzr]

I've been shooting birds for the last couple weeks, and all the birders do the same technique. They use a DSLR with a FAST shutter and take still bursts of 10 frames or so.

The DSLR can track focus if you stay on the bird at the focal point, and the lenses nowadays all have stabilizers built in, so you won't need a tripod, and it's actually quite fun.

For pigeons you probably need a 300mm lens.

I took these shots with a 135mm, but the pelicans are much bigger birds and fly gracefully not erratically like pigeons, so they're easier to shoot.

Another thing I was thinking is to get a cheapo telescope from WalMart and rig up a Kodak Playsport onto the eyepiece, with maybe a sight tube or crosshair taped to the end of the telescope. The Playsport shoots 720p60 and that can be slomoed pretty good.

You won't be able to hand hold it though, you'll definitely need a tripod and a chair to sit in, or set it up on a car or something.

If that doesn't work, WalMart has a 90 day return policy.

These shots are medium resolution, so they're not that crisp. But I'm not interested in birds, I just wanted to practice focus tracking.

Specs if AOGAS: 1/1000 shutter, 200 ISO, f20.

[edDV]

Haha that last bird was crazy

The falcons were probably thinking: " this guy is nuts... I'm not going near him!"

In the cold war most Soviet ballistic missile subs had a US SSN attack sub tail. Their attempt to shake the tail was the called by US sub crews the "Crazy Ivan", a wild erratic reverse of direction intended to force the tail sub to make sonar noise and reveal itself. The Soviets may have been studying pigeons.

[ezeedad]

Khaver,
Some say that it is a sort of voluntary seizure... or epilepsy... Some birds can't control it and they can't break out of it... The best ones seem to have complete control of it and even appear to enjoy it. They can do anything from a single flip to a deep spin..

Treetops,
The camera shoots 3 seconds at 240, then it stops and takes about 15 or twenty seconds to peocess the video before it is ready to shoot again.

[edDV]

I think it is a practice defense ploy. Maybe an ancient threat so that some birds survive to maintain the species.

If I was writing a grant proposal, I'd compare low diet to good diet to see if this behavior is variable.

But maybe it just impresses the females.

[poisondeathray]

well ezeedad raises them, so is this a "learned" social behaviour? do they see their friends to it and try to imitate ?

or is there a component that dad/mom passes it on, like some genetic trait, engrained ? some animal behaviours have a genetic component

If you isolated one by himself very young would he eventually do this sort of thing?


I did a quick search and couldn't find much good info

[budwzr]

In the cold war most Soviet ballistic missile subs had a US SSN attack sub tail. Their attempt to shake the tail was the called by US sub crews the "Crazy Ivan", a wild erratic reverse of direction intended to force the tail sub to make sonar noise and reveal itself. The Soviets may have been studying pigeons.

They should make a movie, sounds interesting.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Nice video of skyrats. j/k

I would use the crossfade effect during the transitions, it's more pleasing to the eye.

They should make a movie, sounds interesting.

[Cornucopia]

Haha that last bird was crazy

The falcons were probably thinking: " this guy is nuts... I'm not going near him!"

In the cold war most Soviet ballistic missile subs had a US SSN attack sub tail. Their attempt to shake the tail was the called by US sub crews the "Crazy Ivan", a wild erratic reverse of direction intended to force the tail sub to make sonar noise and reveal itself. The Soviets may have been studying pigeons.

...I got it - !!!The Hunt for Red October!!!
(stating the obvious)

@ezeedad,

If you can change where you are in relation to the birds so that the area they cover is not as broad in your perspective, you'd have less trouble with the size vs. framerate vs. quality quandary.
For example, planes taking off/landing was mentioned earlier. In that instance, getting just farther away, and slightly off-axis from the flightpath, and using a zoomed in lens with tripod, will get the whole plane in filling the screen with a large size and still have not too much apparent speed/motion problems.
Similarly, if your birds always fly in a circular pattern, shooting NOT perpendicular to the plane of the circling, but closer to the axis/plane of the circling reduces the variation in space, and hence, the relative motion (but you still don't want to be TOTALLY on-axis because then you lose the visual variety of the circular motion.
Of course, if you're always trying to track/follow them from a ground view, this may not work.

Scott

[magillagorilla]

Damn, I thought this thread was going to be about pigeons on roller-skates engeged in some kind of derby.

Here's how I'd shoot it.

Get a DSLR with sharp lens. Mount the high speed point-and-shoot to the shoe of the DSLR. Run the DSLR at a fairly wide angle and get in tight with the point and shoot. Run both cameras simultaneously. In post production, crop the DSLR down to about the same "zoom" as the point and shoot. Keep the croped DSLR footage tracked on a bird until it starts to flip then fade/wipe to the slow motion footage of the same event.

You may get different if not better results shooting with a sharper lens in HD on a DSLR. You may get sharper "normal speed" shots even when cropping. I don't know if the DSLR's 24-30 FPS would hold up to slowing down to 6 FPS, or what ever. So shoot both cameras.

[budwzr]

That's a hell of a good idea, but use the point and shoot as a sight tube. Still doesn't solve the focus problem, unless you prefocus and switch the lens to manual and maybe put a piece of tape on it.

[ezeedad]

Scott.
My son-in law told me about the tracking tags..and suggested that I put one on a key bird... sounds like a great suggestion, but expensive.....
Really my main troubles have been with focusing both cameras and seeing the birds on the screens.
I got a 5 inch Marshall monitor to mount on my Canon Rebel and now I can see the birds much better.. Also I got a fluid action tripod (if I'm describing it right..) I'm getting smoother pictures now, but I'm trying to see if the image stabilization is better on or off.

[ezeedad]

edD and poison...
The rolling trait develops as the birds mature... Generally they go through stages... first just tumbling, then rolling short ..then some of them develop longer distance rolls. It can vary a lot. depending on how the birds are bred. Some birds spin quite early, others may take over a year to start. Some may be over-developed and can crash on the ground.
But I don't think it works well for self defense, because guys are always saying how the falcon takes their best spinners. Plus the ones really working will tire from spending so much energy.
It is definitely a genetic trait. There is even a breed called a Parlor Tumbler that loses the ability to fly and will roll on the ground as it performs. Some can go hundreds of feet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fHJLwknMOk&feature=related

[ezeedad]

Moviegeek... thanks for the suggestion. I was just discovering what the transitions were...

Magilla ... That's a great idea... Light years ahead of where I am.....

EVERYONE...!! This is the most intelligent and creative site I have ever been on....!!

[TreeTops]

I agree. The experts here really know their stuff. You can learn a lot here.

[magillagorilla]

Budwzr,
Some lenses have a very long depth of field. I find when I have my 18-200mm all the way in at 18mm the focal plain is nearly infinate, espically for anything beyond 25feet. Problem is that the 18-200 is not a sharp lens. There must be others with similar properties like a 55-185mm, something sharp with a long focal plane. Maybe like you said, lock the focus on manual, but pointing the camera "up" may cause drift in the focus, I dunno.