Video editor options? Don't need free, but $600 is too much

[OldNick]

Try Corel's Videostudio Pro X4 -easy to use and powerful

Tell me how to get around it (because I already bought VS) and I will retract.

I have spent many hours on VS and the end result was that in order to produce "5-0fps" from a 50fps camera output, it striped half the frames, then repeated each frame to get "50fps".

I was plagued with flickery video whatever I tried. I was told on other forums that my uploaded renders were of poor quality. in the the end I used a codec (added to Corel) that my mentor was happy with (re noise and other compression-related issues) and it _still_ gave a doubled 25 fps to get "50fps"

I tried many ways to render using VS, and none of them worked : they all juddered.

I then tried Vegas and got smooth 50 and _25_fps from a 50fps camera, out of the box.

Adobe Elements is also not bad......if you are led to the hack that actually allows 50fps-p, which is not native.

So for me it's Vegas. OOTB stuff that works. Not hours of trying (Corel)...not hacking (A Elements). Just results.

You can start at USD$...50?
-e

[OldNick]

But is there anything that is sort of "in between" the Adobe Premiere Elements and Adobe Premiere Pro types of software? Something in the $150 or $200 range that sort of splits the difference between the "low cost" editors and the better "pro" ones? If not, which of the lower cost ones do you like for NLE of HD video, and why?

I so not think so. You need to look at the ~$100 ones because they are not that bad...and better to buy compatible stuff than some fly-by-night that has power but no stamina.

However...my experience with Corel VideoStudeo has not been good. It is marked down from "several hundred dollars" to $50. I feel that it struggled to compete at the costlier level, with Vegas Pro and Adobe the $6t00.

As I said before, direct me, bit VS is a toy. It has old codecs that should be replaced. They make big, baldy rendered files. if you use recent codecs, you still have an algorithm that doubles 25 fsp to gwe 50fps, from a 50fps surce.

[pepegot1]

VS is not a problem for me making Blu Ray Discs. I use Corel Videostudio PRO X4 for my video editing. Then, one day I downloaded Vegas Movie Studio 11 Platinum and tried it out. The level of complexity between the two is enormous. Things that are easily done in Corel are more envolved in Vegas. Moving around with a storyboard editor, in Corel, is a simple matter. When you only have a timeline (Vegas,) it's a bitch to locate and move around efficiently with 50 to 60 clips or more. You must edit in small packets.
Also, in rendering, I was in for a big surprise-few talk about this. The author of "101 Tips, Tricks and Techniques," Bill Myers substantiated what I found out through experience. A one hour video, with many effects, can take over five hours to render in Vegas. I hate to think how long my European Trip Video, of over two hours, would have taken-over night to be sure. Apparently, Vegas lovers are not bothered by this fact. So, rendering and fexibility of movement are Vegas shortfalls to me.
Now that I mentioned the bad, here is the good. Vegas is extremely powerful in motion video, color correction and chroma key. It blows Corel away, to mention only these few things of which there are more. It takes a steep learning curve but, it is well worth the effort. "Nothing good of consequence is ever accomplished without exertion." So, I use Vegas for clip editing and effects and then put clips into Corel for quick rendering and flexibility. I take the best from both and with excellent result My videos produced by Corel are vivid, rich in color and clarity that I don't think waiting an extra four hours, or more, can noticeably improve upon.

[budwzr]

Isn't Corel owned by China now too?

[_Al_]

Apparently, Vegas lovers are not bothered by this fact. So, rendering and fexibility of movement are Vegas shortfalls to me.
Now that I mentioned the bad, here is the good. Vegas is extremely powerful in motion video, color correction and chroma key. It blows Corel away, to mention only these few things of which there are more. It takes a steep learning curve but, it is well worth the effort. "Nothing good of consequence is ever accomplished without exertion." So, I use Vegas for clip editing and effects and then put clips into Corel for quick rendering and flexibility. I take the best from both and with excellent result My videos produced by Corel are vivid, rich in color and clarity that I don't think waiting an extra four hours, or more, can noticeably improve upon.

I'm not sure I follow all that above.
Regardless of rendering video I might turn your conclusion around, I could render by encoder of my choice in Vegas(through frame server) which in Corel you cannot.
Long render, what do you mean, Corel is faster for the same output settings ? Anyway, that is at least time consuming part of whole editing and you do not have to be present at all.
Regardless vivid colors, you use effect if you want to. Why would editor supposed to change colors?

[budwzr]

Are you guys using BabelFish?

[budwzr]

Also, how easy is it to do chromakey (I do a fair amount of that)?

VERY easy.

Excellent! That's good to know - thank you.

And a lot of other keying too:

[_Al_]

Are you guys using BabelFish?

no, marylin monroe

[kev921hs]

So I guess I'm looking for something with basic editing (trimming, adding transitions, text, etc), an intuitive interface, ability to slow down/speed up clips, color/lighting correction of clips, add panning motion/zoom out or in to photos, and good audio control (normalize, mute certain clips, etc).

I'm working with AVCHD as my source and am targeting HD for viewing on PC/TV as my primary destination, with an eye toward burning DVD's as well. This may go without saying, but I want something that's stable and fast/smooth; no pauses or delays while editing/arranging/trimming/etc.

From what you all are saying it sounds like all the options from Cyberlink/Sony/Corel/Magix/Adobe at $100 or less would all equally satisfy those requirements. Is that correct?

[zoobie]

So I guess I'm looking for something with basic editing (trimming, adding transitions, text, etc), an intuitive interface, ability to slow down/speed up clips, color/lighting correction of clips, add panning motion/zoom out or in to photos, and good audio control (normalize, mute certain clips, etc).

I want something that's stable and fast/smooth; no pauses or delays while editing/arranging/trimming/etc.

Look in books

[OldNick]

All - I'm trying to make the same decision. In a nutshell what I'm looking for is a comparison - pros, cons, features, whatever - of:

• Cyberlink Power Director
• Corel Video Studio
• Vegas Movie Studio
• Adobe Premiere Elements

Anyone have knowledge of than one program that can compare/contrast?

EDIT: if it helps, my setup is Windows 7, Intel i5 quad-core, 8 GB RAM, no graphics card yet - waiting to decide on software in case certain programs benefit differently from different quality GPU's. If I'm wrong about this feel free to correct me as well, thanks...

-Kevin

Try the trials, but here is my take, having tried them the last three. I am NOT and expert by any stretch..I mean I just trialling the cheapies , but here are my thoughts.

- Video Studio would not give a smooth output. At various people's request I tried this and that, including importing codecs that were better than VS had already: it seems the ones it has are pretty old, but always had frame-speed jitters in the output. I was working with 50p video (AVCHD) and when I asked for 50p output, I was given a video in which half the 50fps frames had been stripped, then the remainder doubled to get "50fps"! This was Id'd by this forum. If you step through the output frame by frame you do indeed have to step two frames to change the image. This after trying just about every setting and codec. So a "50p" output was no better than 25p for jitter. Apparently the jitter was a combination of VS's behaviour and poor codecs, but was still there even with the codec that I was told to install. I also felt that the way things were done was a bit cumbersome in a lot of places: you would suddenly find yourself with no choices too often. For me this was one of those programmes whose potential I never discovered because I struggled so hard just to get the basics.

- Adobe Elements also gave jittery video. In the end this forum talked me through adding some extra output choices, because Elements _does not support 50p_. The installed options gave me good smooth 50p AND 25p output. However I was not that rapt that this was actually a hack, and that Adobe have not seemed to respond by fixing the programme.

- I then tried Vegas Studio Platinum Suite and can only wish I had done it before. It's a few more $ than VS, but it's chalk and cheese as far as I am concerned. Dropped a video in, had a bit of a play (nice interface AFAIAC) and made a perfect, smooth video. I have a couple of hiccoughs, but not ever a feeling that it was never going to work. I can now make 50p _and_ 25p output that is 90% of the quality of the original and of course in a much smaller file.

So it was Elements or Vegas Studio.I am opting for Vegas, because, as I said, I was not happy that Adobe had presumably crippled the Elements, in a day when 50fps is getting very common. Also the Suite has quite powerful audio mixing capabilities for about the same price as Elements.

FWIW

Nick

[budwzr]

Are you guys using BabelFish?

no, marylin monroe

Danny Thomas?

[kev921hs]

Look in books

Not sure what you mean by this?

OldNick, thanks for that breakdown.

With regard to trials, I don't have a GPU yet. I was planning to buy one after choosing software, thinking certain programs would use certain hardware capabilities differently. But now I'm thinking this is a chicken or the egg issue; how can I effectively evaluate software without some decent hardware?

So if I go that route and get a GPU first, do all these programs I'm considering take advantage of the hardware equally? Or is it the case where, for example, Software A takes advantage of CUDA but Software B does not?

FWIW I think VS is off the table based on what you all have said. Possibly Elements too. Vegas Studio seems to have a lot of support around here; I'm still wondering about PowerDirector and someone mentioned Magix which I hadn't considered but now perhaps I should.

[budwzr]

The thing is, you don't know what you need yet, so you can't possibly arrive at the correct conclusion except by luck.

It's going to take a year or more to get a basic grasp of what's going on.

I've been at this craft for more than five years, and many here are even more advanced and knowledgeable. So I'm going to state that Sony Vegas is the best NLE you're going to find for ANY price, and if anyone disagrees, let them speak up.

P.S. Apple users non gratis. Don't get me started.

[pepegot1]

-AI- <<Long render, what do you mean, Corel is faster for the same output settings ? Anyway, that is at least time consuming part of whole editing and you do not have to be present at all.>>

If I render with vegas it takes much longer than Corel period, on a Sandy Bridge Computer. That is what I experience. Vegas is good but, not in that regard!

[budwzr]

Vegas can render a very high quality output file, or something quick and dirty too. If Corel or any of the other entry-level editors has a way to cut corners to spit something out faster, to me, that's a red flag.

[videobread]

Vegas Pro 11 full retail is sold on ebay for $350 with good feedback. A friend picked up a copy and had no problems activating or reloading from a fresh drive. Actually came in the Sony box with Sony disk and looks legit. Don't no if I would risk the $350. Don't know how they do it.

[Cauptain]

Look in books

Not sure what you mean by this?

OldNick, thanks for that breakdown.

With regard to trials, I don't have a GPU yet. I was planning to buy one after choosing software, thinking certain programs would use certain hardware capabilities differently. But now I'm thinking this is a chicken or the egg issue; how can I effectively evaluate software without some decent hardware?

So if I go that route and get a GPU first, do all these programs I'm considering take advantage of the hardware equally? Or is it the case where, for example, Software A takes advantage of CUDA but Software B does not?

FWIW I think VS is off the table based on what you all have said. Possibly Elements too. Vegas Studio seems to have a lot of support around here; I'm still wondering about PowerDirector and someone mentioned Magix which I hadn't considered but now perhaps I should.

Power Directo 10 is CUDA/OPEN CL Hardware Acceleration.

Have many output methods(File, 3D file, Devices and Online), look:





Claudio

[kev921hs]

The thing is, you don't know what you need yet, so you can't possibly arrive at the correct conclusion except by luck.

Point taken. In a nutshell, I want to do more than I can with the Canon software that came with my camcorder; I "hit the wall" with that in 2 days. Things I found myself wanting to do were adjust the lighting/color, stabilize things, add pictures & pan/zoom, and selectively mute/normalize audio of certain clips. That's why I'm here.

If Vegas generates the best quality output maybe I'll give that a try. Are you talking about the MovieStudio line, or the higher end stuff? I need to stay under $150 and would prefer $100 or less.

Anything specific I should focus on when buying a GPU to maximize MovieStudio's potential?

[budwzr]

Yes, start with the "Studio" line. Get the best one you can afford. The Platinum will keep you busy for a year or more. Don't even think about the Pro version, you won't benefit, or even know what the difference is.

[kev921hs]

Thanks. Any thoughts on what to look for in a GPU?

Also, is it true MovieStudio is 32-bit? Does the performance suffer relative to 64-bit competitors (assuming some competitors are 64-bit, I believe at least PowerDirector 10 is)?

[budwzr]

64 bit Windows runs 32 bit apps just fine, and Vegas is extremely optimized for Windows.

What to look for is Cuda support in a CPU, and the latest hardware. Some chipsets have video support too, I think Intel 3000? You have to do some research, or maybe somebody else knows. I'm not a hardware expert.

I have a Qosmio X505 laptop and it runs Vegas Pro 64 bit lightning fast.

http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/qosmio/x500/

[edDV]

Thanks. Any thoughts on what to look for in a GPU?

Also, is it true MovieStudio is 32-bit? Does the performance suffer relative to 64-bit competitors (assuming some competitors are 64-bit, I believe at least PowerDirector 10 is)?

Here is the GPU statement for Vegas Pro 11. Movie Studio is just a feature reduced version of the previous Pro release (in this case Pro 10) plus a few extra consumer oriented features. Vegas Pro 10 had some GPU assist and my Pro 10 install recognized my old Geforce 9800GT as Cuda enabled.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro/gpuacceleration

Pro 11 comes in 32bit and 64bit versions. Not sure about Movie Studio. One way to tell is download the demo.

[vkmast]

Movie Studio is still 32-bit. The SCS product page states: Support for GPU-accelerated AVC rendering using the Sony AVC plug-in.

From Studio Platinum v.11 release notes:
GPU-accelerated rendering performance will vary depending on your specific hardware configuration. If you have an older CPU and a newer GPU, rendering using the GPU may improve render times.

Notable fixes in 11 build 283:
Vegas Movie Studio can now address up to 4 GB of memory when running on a 64-bit version of Windows Vista or Windows 7.

And yes, it's always a good idea to download the free trial, fully functional for 15 days now for Sony Movie Studio and Vegas software.

[poisondeathray]

Vegas is extremely optimized for Windows.

Translation: it ONLY runs on Windows, because it relies heavily on the depreciated VFW (video for windows) system - it cannot be ported to other OS's without an almost complete re-write





(But it's a very nice editor, very intuitive to use)

[budwzr]

Apparently, this gentleman above, using a devilish moniker, is an employee of one of the Vegas competitors.

[kev921hs]

Interesting... which one? I haven't noticed any particular bias to his responses...

So I guess I need to buy a GPU and start playing around with some trials. Probably will start with VMS based on the consistent praise you all give it. Might give a couple others a look too, though it sounds like Corel isn't worth the time.

I threw this out there earlier but if anyone has any recommendations on a GPU - I'm guessing bigger is better, but probably you get diminishing returns at some point given my budget - keep 'em coming.

Any thoughts on NVIDIA vs AMD(ATI)?

To keep it all in perspective, I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, i5 quad core, 8 GB RAM on an ASUS Z68 board.

[poisondeathray]

Apparently, this gentleman above, using a devilish moniker, is an employee of one of the Vegas competitors.

Nope, just the truth . If Sony could sell Vegas to Mac users, they would. (In fact FCPX shares more than a few similarities with Vegas !)

I'd get fired if I was an employee of one of the competitors - I've criticized things about all the programs (but they're all true)



For kev921hs - definitely use the trials. Some people dislike the way each of the programs are setup. If you're realtively new to editing, perhaps you haven't developed a "style" or preferences yet, so definitely give the trials a go

[kev921hs]

I'd get fired if I was an employee of one of the competitors - I've criticized things about all the programs (but they're all true)

Obviously I'm new around here; probably haven't seen your criticisms of all the programs. I'd be interested in hearing them, since chances are they're things I wouldn't know to watch out for as I'm working through the various trials.

[budwzr]

Hahaha, my jokes are just too lofty I guess.