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  1. Member
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    I have a device that captures vhs to dvd. I never really tried using the S-video route. My unit has an S-video jack. Will it make any difference in captures if i use it? I've been using RCA cables (red, white, yellow) to capture VHS to convert to DVD.

    thanks!
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  2. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    S-video separates the colors in the video, so it does normally have better quality than composite. (The yellow video cable, along with the red and white audio cables.) However, your VCR must have S-video out and your capture device must have S-video in or you won't see the improvement.

    Others here can probably give you a better explanation of S-video.
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  3. Member edDV's Avatar
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    More info needed.

    S-Video separates luma from chroma and is associated with SVHS and Hi8 decks.

    Identify all your capture equipment (not interested in your watch).
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  4. Originally Posted by snafubaby View Post
    I have a device that captures vhs to dvd. I never really tried using the S-video route. My unit has an S-video jack. Will it make any difference in captures if i use it? I've been using RCA cables (red, white, yellow) to capture VHS to convert to DVD.

    thanks!
    OK, bottom line here has been hinted at, but not stated.
    Unless the tapes were recorded in Super VHS (SVHS) in the first place, using S-Video cable isn't going to do any good.
    Then the Video player you are now using needs to be SVHS compatible for you to get usable S-Video out.
    OK? I'm no expert on this, but I do believe that you can't play SVHS tape in ordinary VHS machine, so the previously recorded in SVHS is sufficient. After that, you must have SVHS deck and you are all set to get benifits of S-Video connection.
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  5. No, usually the s-video connection will provide superior picture quality to ordinary composite leads, even for ordinary VHS tapes.
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  6. Originally Posted by chowmein View Post
    No, usually the s-video connection will provide superior picture quality to ordinary composite leads, even for ordinary VHS tapes.
    No, if it was recorded in standard VHS, no matter how you try, you have to separate the chroma and luma as the first step in displaying the video. If recorded in SVHS in the first place, those signals were never combined and do not need to be reconstructed. If you could do the separation as good as not combining them in the first place, there would not be SVHS.
    There would only be higher quality separation.
    Anyone remember the "Commie" 64? Had great color graphics. Reason. It generated separate chroma luma directly neve creating a baseband video (NTSC or other). That is the origin of S-Video.
    Anyhow, we are beating a dead horse. It can't hurt to use S-Video to S-Video connection and might give you better quality.
    OK?
    Thanks.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by v491138 View Post
    Originally Posted by chowmein View Post
    No, usually the s-video connection will provide superior picture quality to ordinary composite leads, even for ordinary VHS tapes.
    No, if it was recorded in standard VHS, no matter how you try, you have to separate the chroma and luma as the first step in displaying the video. If recorded in SVHS in the first place, those signals were never combined and do not need to be reconstructed. If you could do the separation as good as not combining them in the first place, there would not be SVHS..
    Sorry v491138, but that's not correct. chowmein was correct.

    Aside from resolution, VHS and S-VHS are essentially identical. VHS recorded separate, too -- it was not a composite recording. Both VHS and S-VHS have the Y/C internally split and record in "color under" mode. S-VHS and VHS have exactly the same reduced bandwidth for the chroma (C) components. S-VHS allows more resolution for the luma (Y) part.

    If you need a reference, read this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/075069940X/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&link...SIN=075069940X

    VHS thus also benefits from s-video connections.

    "S-video" first appeared in the late 1980s, with the release of the JVC S-VHS recording system. However, the concept of separated video output had existed for at least a decade before that. For example, as used by Commodore (although it was not technically an s-video cable, and required a mod to fit into s-video connectors).
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 10th Jul 2011 at 12:29.
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  8. Using S-video with both VHF and S-VHS is, in my experience, much better than composite.

    I have a JVC S-VHS VCR and it does a very good job but only with S-video cable.

    I use it with PAL system.
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  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Note that there can be specific scenarios where composite is better.
    It's a tape by tape issue.

    Just an FYI.

    Always compare when you suspect there is an image issue.
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    It's worth noting that edDV has taught us that composite is better for laserdisc captures. I know that it's been long enough now that it's pretty rare to still be talking about that format, but I wanted to mention it in case someone finds this thread in the future and is interested in doing a laserdisc capture.
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  11. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    That's because LD is a composite format.

    However, there are several select LD players that have amazing comb filters, and the s-video looks better.

    Look at this post from about 6 years ago: Laserdisc Player Recommendation
    Find my replies, as well as Mark's.
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  12. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    That's because LD is a composite format.

    However, there are several select LD players that have amazing comb filters, and the s-video looks better.

    Look at this post from about 6 years ago: Laserdisc Player Recommendation
    Find my replies, as well as Mark's.
    There are always exceptions but most consumer Laserdisc players had notch or simple comb filters to S-Video output. For the vast majority of situations, native composite is the way to go for Laserdisc. The capture device should have a high quality comb filter.

    Laserdisc composite quality can be very close to Type B or C 1" broadcast tape (in CAV mode).
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  13. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    ...
    Aside from resolution, VHS and S-VHS are essentially identical. VHS recorded separate, too -- it was not a composite recording. Both VHS and S-VHS have the Y/C internally split and record in "color under" mode. S-VHS and VHS have exactly the same reduced bandwidth for the chroma (C) components. S-VHS allows more resolution for the luma (Y) part.
    ...
    VHS thus also benefits from s-video connections.
    Agreed that the playback issues for VHS and SVHS tapes are similar. Both benefit from keeping Y and C separate to the capture device.

    VHS composite is a Y+C addition. The first thing a capture device needs to do is re-separate Y and C for composite inputs. This is lossy so best to use S-Video which keeps Y and C separate to the NTSC/PAL decoder. The role of the NTSC/PAL decoder is to separate C into Pb,Pr in preparation for A/D.


    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    "S-video" first appeared in the late 1980s, with the release of the JVC S-VHS recording system. However, the concept of separated video output had existed for at least a decade before that. For example, as used by Commodore (although it was not technically an s-video cable, and required a mod to fit into s-video connectors).
    Before VHS, U-Matic (the original "color under" format) had Y/C dub connectors. S-Video was similar but standardized voltages and used cheaper connectors and cables. All the "high end broadcast" VTRS recorded composite in those days (e.g. Quadruplex 2", IVC 1", Type B and C 1").
    Last edited by edDV; 10th Jul 2011 at 17:47.
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  14. Originally Posted by edDV View Post
    There are always exceptions but most consumer Laserdisc players had notch or simple comb filters to S-Video output. For the vast majority of situations, native composite is the way to go for Laserdisc. The capture device should have a high quality comb filter.
    Which most surprisingly don't these days. The ATI Theater based capture chips are one of the very few that have a 3D comb filter built in. A S-VHS VCR can be used as a pass through high quality 3D comb filter, I know Panasonic and JVC used to advertise it on their models.
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  15. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
    Originally Posted by edDV View Post
    There are always exceptions but most consumer Laserdisc players had notch or simple comb filters to S-Video output. For the vast majority of situations, native composite is the way to go for Laserdisc. The capture device should have a high quality comb filter.
    Which most surprisingly don't these days. The ATI Theater based capture chips are one of the very few that have a 3D comb filter built in. A S-VHS VCR can be used as a pass through high quality 3D comb filter, I know Panasonic and JVC used to advertise it on their models.
    Most capture cards use line delay or 2D area comb filters. 3D comb filter tech in capture cards is rare.

    Even so these cards have other issues, at least the ATI ones (e.g no Win7 support).

    3D means cuurent line, lines above and below and similar lines in previous and next frames contribute to the result. A realtime 3D comb filter is limited to current and prior fields. Prior field need field/frame storage
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    Originally Posted by v491138 View Post
    Originally Posted by snafubaby View Post
    I have a device that captures vhs to dvd. I never really tried using the S-video route. My unit has an S-video jack. Will it make any difference in captures if i use it? I've been using RCA cables (red, white, yellow) to capture VHS to convert to DVD.

    thanks!
    OK, bottom line here has been hinted at, but not stated.
    Unless the tapes were recorded in Super VHS (SVHS) in the first place, using S-Video cable isn't going to do any good.
    Then the Video player you are now using needs to be SVHS compatible for you to get usable S-Video out.
    OK?
    Mm, no, I think you might have s-video and SVHS confused. S-video is a type of cable and transmission. SVHS is a video format. You can play SVHS through any kind of output and cable that your player supports.

    If your player can output s-video, a VHS tape will look visibly cleaner and sharper thru s-video...assuming you're not using a really cheap s-video setup, and assuming you're using decent wire.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 20th Mar 2014 at 17:34.
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  17. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by v491138 View Post
    Originally Posted by chowmein View Post
    No, usually the s-video connection will provide superior picture quality to ordinary composite leads, even for ordinary VHS tapes.
    No, if it was recorded in standard VHS, no matter how you try, you have to separate the chroma and luma as the first step in displaying the video. If recorded in SVHS in the first place, those signals were never combined and do not need to be reconstructed. If you could do the separation as good as not combining them in the first place, there would not be SVHS..
    Sorry v491138, but that's not correct. chowmein was correct.

    Aside from resolution, VHS and S-VHS are essentially identical. VHS recorded separate, too -- it was not a composite recording. Both VHS and S-VHS have the Y/C internally split and record in "color under" mode. S-VHS and VHS have exactly the same reduced bandwidth for the chroma (C) components. S-VHS allows more resolution for the luma (Y) part.

    If you need a reference, read this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/075069940X/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&link...SIN=075069940X

    VHS thus also benefits from s-video connections.

    "S-video" first appeared in the late 1980s, with the release of the JVC S-VHS recording system. However, the concept of separated video output had existed for at least a decade before that. For example, as used by Commodore (although it was not technically an s-video cable, and required a mod to fit into s-video connectors).
    Hello, just in case you are watching this thread, I have a few Hi88 camcorder tor’s to transfer, I have a video capture device with RCA and S video....will I benefit from buying an S Video male to male lead to use the S video connections ? Or would RCA give the same result ? Thanks
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  18. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    You have revived a 9 years old thread and you haven't read it yet? You are asking the exact same question in post #1, Jesus Christ !!!!
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  19. Just wanted to confirm the advice was still valid Am I not allowed to ask a question, without getting profanities from such as yourself, go back into your hole and stay there....
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  20. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Really? What would have changed? VHS is as old as dirt why all of a sudden composite becomes better than S-Video in 2020? Yeah you're right maybe I should go back to my hole.
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  21. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Reddwarf4ever View Post
    still valid
    Still valid.
    This will never change.

    However, again, noting that some exceptions can exist. It's a 99% rule, not 100%. (And if you think you're in the 1%, you probably still are not.)
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  22. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Thinking as links in a chain, the (good quality) s-video/yc link is 100% always better than the (good quality) composite link, but if there are issues with preceding or succeeding links, that's where one can say the chains differ from the rule (e.g. comb filtering).

    The rule itself is immutable, like math.

    Scott
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