Well, VHS capturing Mostly cartoons, having some questions:)

[zerowalker]

I see, i took it that RGB was "Full Scart", and S-Video was a part of it, but okay thanks!

[zerowalker]

As you have seen i got the Herringbone noise on composite.
I haven´t been able to test yet, but is S-video going to be better? (except for quality)
As it got two pin for Ground, while composite just transfer everything, or am i out in the wild?

Thanks

[jagabo]

As you have seen i got the Herringbone noise on composite.
I haven´t been able to test yet, but is S-video going to be better? (except for quality)

Maybe. It's worth a try.

[zerowalker]

Let´s hope so
Will post it when i get the chance to try

[zerowalker]

Ehm, pretty sure i posted yesterday but can´t find it, so posting it again;S

I have bought an S-VHS VCR now, it supports S-video through Scart, i get color on my TV but no it my capture card. I am pretty sure i have tried with a DVD and XBOX before and got color (can´t test it as i don´t have the cables currently). So i don´t really know what´s wrong;S

Maybe it can´t handle the mode, or it just doesn´t support color and i must have been dreaming about it;S

But i don´t know what to do now,
My card is

MSI TV@nywhere - Conexant 2388x

Thanks!

[jagabo]

Make sure the VCR is set to output s-video. S-video luma and composite share the same pin on the SCART connector. If the deck is set to output composite there may be no signal on the s-video chroma pin and you'll get no color, just b/w.

Is this a PAL VCR playing an NTSC tape? If so, it will be putting out PAL60, a hybrid of PAL and NTSC, NTSC timing with PAL encoded chroma. Most PAL TVs will display that correctly but most capture devices will capture as b/w. You need a capture device that supports PAL60 to get color caps.

[zerowalker]

I have Scart-Svideo ------ S-video-Scart
VCR TV = Color

But on my capture card i get Black And White, or Red Green flicker with black and white.


EDIT: Scart adapter on both ends with S-video cable connected to them.

[jagabo]

And SCART adapters are often directional and sometimes have switches for composite/s-video.

[zerowalker]

So does that mean it doesn´t work with S-video on capture;S
I was certain it would work as it carries color;O

EDIT: The tv goes into S-VHS mode when i have S-video in a scart, so it´s getting recognized right;S
EDIT: Maybe it doesn´t it did before when i tried with an Xbox Cable i think;O

[themaster1]

I recall using Dscaler for Pal60 , you might want to try it

[zerowalker]

Have tried Dscaler, But my card doesn´t even support Pal60, and i have Pal VCR and Pal Tape

[zerowalker]

VC-FH30

This is the VCR
I thought that all S-VHS got the S-video as that output is supposed to be able to show the extra details (but it will be better anyhow).

Merry Christmas!

[zerowalker]

Okay i will set the S-VHS thing on the side and try to solve the Herringbone again

Is this correct.

Power Outlet:
1: Nothing
2: Extender/Splitter


Extender:
PC
Screen
Xbox (Capture)
Speakers
VCR


Does that solve the groundloop?

Or is it completely wrong?

[jagabo]

Having all the components plugged into the same power strip will eliminate ground loops between them. If you have a cable TV cable plugged into the capture device, disconnect it. That's one of the biggest sources of ground loop problems.

[zerowalker]

I put everything in an Extender, it got 8 outlets.
And the only thing that´s in, is the Composite for video in the capture card.

I will upload a clip, please tell me what you think

Check the noise around the text with blue aura "Philosophers's Stone", i think it´s the capture card that isn´t the best, though my thought has many times been wrong.

[jagabo]

Did you capture that via composite or s-video? That's pretty much normal for composite video capture. Only a few cards have 3d comb filters that will remove those dot crawl artifacts in static areas. Like the ATI 650 and 600 capture devices.

Why is your video 720x417? Did you resize it?

[zerowalker]

It´s Composite, but that isn´t Herringbone(ground loop?), meaning, either pictures or video.
So S-video is better for dot crawl?
/Read about it once again to cofirm, yes it does;D
/Has ordered one for my Xbox to try it out, hope it comes this week so i can test it.
Yeah i Cropped, not resize though.
ah, are they the ones that are sadly bad with capturing thanks so macrovision sensitivity?

3d comb filters, if that´s so good, how come it´s only on old devices?
Can you copy the use for filtering, or is it only hardware related filtering?

Thanks

[jagabo]

It´s Composite, but that isn´t Herringbone(ground loop?)

No, that's dot crawl. Herringbone would be all over the image, not just around the edges of colored areas.

So S-video is better for dot crawl?

Dot crawl comes from incomplete separation of chroma and luma from a composite signal. S-video keeps chroma and luma separate so you don't get that crosstalk. Unfortunately, some devices with s-video output produce that s-video from a composite signal with a cheap circuit -- so the s-video output from those devices has dot crawl.

are they the ones that are sadly bad with capturing thanks so macrovision sensitivity?

The 650 has the false macrovision problem. Form what I hear the 600 doesn't.

3d comb filters, if that´s so good, how come it´s only on old devices?

Because it's more expensive. As cheap capture cards flooded the market expensive cards got squeezed out.

Can you copy the use for filtering, or is it only hardware related filtering?

Are you asking can software filters duplicate a 3d comb filter? Yes. To some extent. But it's best to use s-video if you can.

[zerowalker]

Ah thanks!
Oh, i see, had herringbone in the picture i showed before (with red arrows) right?
Really really old movie, so desperate to get it as good as possible (along with others). That is why i need a good SVHS and looking around
Ah i see, well it doesn´t suprise me cheap always win, but is the 600 good?
And Macrovision protection, is that something all movies got or what? /Sorry if it´s a stupid question.
Good that it´s possible to some degree then.

But will look out for the 600, is it good with the rest(colors etc?), is there any different version for PAL NTSC?
Does it support 60hz?

[jagabo]

Oh, i see, had herringbone in the picture i showed before (with red arrows) right?

Herringbone refers to any noise that has a herringbone-like pattern. It is usually caused by some kind of external noise source. The noise in your caps are all dot crawl artifacts. They only occur at the borders of different colors. Large areas of a single color don't show dot crawl artifacts -- and your caps aren't showing any .

Ah i see, well it doesn´t suprise me cheap always win, but is the 600 good?

The ATI 600 devices were among the best video capture cards in the consumer arena.

And Macrovision protection, is that something all movies got or what?

Macrovision is copy protection applied to some VHS tapes. DVD players (and other digital devices) can add macrovision to the analog outputs too. There are a few different types of macrovision involving mal-formed horizontal sync pulses and the chroma burst signal. TVs are designed to ignore macrovision but most recorders and capture devices are designed to respond to those signals by screwing up the picture in various ways. The problem with the 650 and 750 appear to be some over-sensitive macrovision detector that responds to normal variations in those signals.

But will look out for the 600, is it good with the rest(colors etc?)

The issue with the old ATI devices is drivers. You may have to use XP to get full control of the proc amp, maybe even to capture at all.

is there any different version for PAL NTSC?

I don't know.

Does it support 60hz?

The NTSC version definitely works for NTSC signals. If you're asking about PAL60 -- I don't know.

[zerowalker]

With Red Arrows, i meant my old picture, the one i had resized, caused it showed so well than, but glad there isn´t any on these

Ah i see, i wonder if my card ignores them, as everything work perfectly when it comes to just being able to capture;S

But i would guess some of which i want to copy for archiving would have macrovision, so that is a problem.

Ah, well, there is always solution, dual boot or maybe even virtual PC.

I see, that is another problem, mine is only 50hz, but normally 60hz isn´t problem.
But, if you compare your knowledge on how well it can capture, how is my current card (if we skip the crawling dots)?

[jagabo]

Ah i see, i wonder if my card ignores them, as everything work perfectly when it comes to just being able to capture

I posted some examples of the problem with the ATI 650 a while back:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326560-Which-is-better-usb-stick-vhs-cap-or-hd-pvr-...=1#post2023227

But i would guess some of which i want to copy for archiving would have macrovision, so that is a problem.

Disney tapes usually use the strongest macrovision protection.

But, if you compare your knowledge on how well it can capture, how is my current card (if we skip the crawling dots)?

Otherwise it looks ok. See if you can adjust the proc amp for sharpness, levels, etc.

[zerowalker]

Ah have looked at that before, don´t think it´s something for me then, nice examples
Ah, well, don´t know all the ones i want to capture as i got many, but problem will probably come sooner or later.

Nice that, sadly, i can only change, Brightness and Contrast;S
Would like to be able to change sharpness though;S

Edit: I think i may have gotten a strike of Macrovision, can it be put through Antena/RF cable?
As when i had my Snes hooked up, if it went dark, and then light, it would be, very bright, then go back to normal.
Can show you if you want to see.

[jagabo]

Nice that, sadly, i can only change, Brightness and Contrast;S
Would like to be able to change sharpness though;S

Sometimes the capture driver supports features that other programs can't access. Try using GraphEdit or GraphStudio. Start the program, add the capture driver, right click on the driver and select Properties. See if there are any proc amp settings. If there are, you can adjust them while previewing in your regular capture app.

Edit: I think i may have gotten a strike of Macrovision, can it be put through Antena/RF cable?
As when i had my Snes hooked up, if it went dark, and then light, it would be, very bright, then go back to normal.

That's possible. Was it a movie? Just game play? The latter would be unusual.

[zerowalker]

Graphedit showed the same settings, with everything grayed except contrast and brightness.

It was jut game play, Super Nintendo.

[zerowalker]

While some may analyse the clip i have another question,
RGB to S-video can be done, and by so you need a device as it needs active electronics correct?
I wat wondering if some could direct me to one that can change RGB to S-video (not just one), as if i understand things right, you don´t "lose" quality this way, like which would be done if you use a standard splitter

Thanks.

[jagabo]

I don't know much about SCART RGB to s-video converters. But that should get you a picture free of dot crawl artifacts.

Your last video had a lot of horizontal jitter. Are all those small flashing colored dots supposed to be there?

[zerowalker]

It´s not in the game, but i used RF adapter thing, and it´s very old and probably pretty bad, so i would claim it responsible for that.

Ah, but how does it work, cause, if it´s an amplified splitter, it´s not loss in signal right?
Currently looking for one with RGB Scart to S-video, but maybe it´s rare or not a good combination.

[jagabo]

A SCART RGB to s-video conversion requires active, powered, electronics. In theory RGB is superior to s-video. So there will some degradation of the picture (compared to RGB) but it should still be better than composite. Here's an example:

http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=17

[zerowalker]

Ah, expensive, but considerably usable in some situations for me.
Yeah i know, but i meant, that thing you linked can get you, Scart into the TV while "copying" the signal to s-video without degrading the signal(for the entire signal, like would happen if you did it without active electronic right?)

As in, Scart to 2 scart or 1 s-video to 2, that degrades the signal.