Well, VHS capturing Mostly cartoons, having some questions:)

[zerowalker]

I see, well i would like to have it on 64bit, as that´s my Main Stream PC, and i don´t have any other, except a laptop which doesn´t work properly.
But maybe there is some 64bit drivers, cause my Conextant doesn´t have 64bit drivers, so i use another driver which works for it, or the Dscaler driver which only works on Dscaler (does Ati Wonder have a Dscaler driver?).

I can play the same VHS tape on any of 3 VCR's and they all play differently, some better, some worse.

Yes, on different VCR there is of course, difference.

But i get difference on the same VCR or any other device, depending on the White Crush, let´s say i start a capture in the middle of a video, i play it, and it starts, and there is a bright scene, then everything will be pretty much White for some time (with tweaked settings, it´s 100-200ms maybe).

But if i look the movie from start, or before the scene, it won´t be white, as the White Crush has already dimmed the picture, and it pretty much stays down when it has gone down.

[sanlyn]

The old ATI SD cards' last updated drivers were for 32-bit XP. The newer HD cards were not as capable, and had non-defeatable AGC that caused problems. No wonder they stopped making them.

Most AGC and plugins like them work better on a continuous run. Too bad there's no way to set a sample point they can work from. For lots of money one can buy pro-level units that can do that. More than I could ever afford, though, and you need pro equipment to run them with.

[zerowalker]

The old ATI SD cards' last updated drivers were for 32-bit XP

Is this the correct driver :http://driverscollection.com/?file_cid=41229136146953369df45f318ab
If so there is an 64 bit version.

And about the Card, is the NTSC cards only able to capture NTSC?
Cause my card can capture any signal pretty much, it is´t bound to any Region.

[jagabo]

Did you try turning white crush off and adjusting the brightness and contrast settings?

[zerowalker]

Yes, if you look at the Sample ds001, and ds002 White Crush ON, you will see.

[sanlyn]

Is this the correct driver :http://driverscollection.com/?file_cid=41229136146953369df45f318ab
If so there is an 64 bit version.

And about the Card, is the NTSC cards only able to capture NTSC?
Cause my card can capture any signal pretty much, it is´t bound to any Region.

Why go to that site? Get them from ATI/AMD: Catalyst 9.3 , although 9.3 is the last one I heard of. These are basic graphics and WDM capture drivers for Vista 64. There is no MPEG/MMC capture driver, you have to use something like VirtualDub for capture. Another problem: the older AIW up to 9800 were AGP=slot capture cards. You need a motherboard that can accept the AGP graphics mount. The later cards were HD version PCIe mounts; those are the one with AGC problems. I hear they have problems with 64-bit Win7 (who doesn't?)

I have AGP motherboards, but their BIOS can't be updated for 64-bit OS.

AFAIK: NTSC is NTSC-only, PAL is PAL only. Both editions were popular.

[zerowalker]

I just found it through that site, that´s why.

Well MPEG isn´t anything i care about really, but what is MMC?

Oh, i don´t have AGP, so that´s nothing i can really choose from;S


But another thing about the Conextant, can anyone clarify what this means?

For example, to digitize at 720 x 576 resolution, driver programs chip so it digitizes 52 microseconds instead of 53.333 microseconds on active part of line. You can, of course, capture at 704 x 576 resolution, but in this case you can't use DV encoder.

It doesn´t really tell me anything, what does 52 or 53 microseconds do that matters?

[sanlyn]

MMC = ATI MultiMedia Center. Had a video player, MPEG encoder, some filters. It was OK way-back-when, but better encoders came along. Works only in XP, and most people I know didn't use it. I played with it, but using VirtualDub to capture to AVI was better. You didn't need MMC installed to use an AIW as a capture card with other software. The only filters I ever use with it are the card's basic brightness and contrast adjustments. Had no AGC, no auto white, etc.

I have no idea what the Conexant's ms figures mean. I was more interested in their filtering info in the manual, which is incomprehensible to my poor uneducated brain. Didn't have time to pursue it in detail, my current VHS project is driving me crazy at the moment.

[zerowalker]

Oh i see, well no one wants those AGC stuff anyway, atleast not when it´s no real purpose behind it.

Well you are not alone, i don´t understand anything so don´t know what anything is doing or how the card is even working;S
But sounds like you are having a hellish project, what´s it about if i may ask?

[sanlyn]

But sounds like you are having a hellish project, what´s it about if i may ask?

Bad VHS of a movie. Spots, comets, grain, chroma noise, bad color, rips, stripes, berries, hair on film, fingerprints, dropouts, flashes, sparkles, jaggies....you name it.

Try this in VLC Player (everything looks like poop in Media Player): Title_demo_original (started in 2005) mpg, 23 mb
Third attempt, seven years later: Title_demo_new (2012)

It gets worse. Now 23 minutes into the movie. Only 1 hour + 4 minutes to go.

[zerowalker]

I think it looked go on both;D
was both of them filtered?

As they had very stable lines.

I use Zoom Player, EVR with LAV or ffdshow.


But how are you fixing coments?

I mean comets that are, like coming from edges and dragged to the right.
I have much of it on Video 8 tapes, i think it´s in the tape (the same with the Sickly White, White).

Don´t know how to solve it, same with some weird lines i get when the color is intense red, here is a sample.

[sanlyn]

LOL! Well, if you can't see a difference between them, then you have nothing to worry about !

[zerowalker]

Okay i watched again, and now i "See";D

You have fixed the noise, and the Black is Black, and the colors are stable, and the spots are removed.

A very delicate work i must say, and i am impressed how everything is in shape after such work, (i mean blurring can occur after denoise for example).

How did you make the background Black, white still cleaning the Colors and letting everything stay in shape?

[jagabo]

The active picture across one scan line of a PAL video signal is 52 microsecond. If you capture that at the usual 13.5 MHz you get 702 pixels. If you capture at the 13.5 MHz for 53.3 microseconds you get 720 pixels -- ie, you get those 9 black borders at the left and right edges.

[zerowalker]

So with that you mean that the Capture Cards really captures 702, instead of 720, and just add non existent stuff there because it doesn´t use the correct time on the active scan line?

Don´t know if this is good or not, or well, it´s obviously not good, but if there is a real problem.

Does that mean i should capture at 704?

[jagabo]

No, most capture cards capture a full 53.3 microseconds (720 pixels across the scan line). But the extra pixels at the ends usually don't contain any useful picture information. Sometimes the capture (or broadcast) is a little off center so having 8 or 9 pixels of padding at each edge is helpful.

[zerowalker]

So most card will capture the 720 wide range, even if, let´s say, only 700 contains anything, "real".
But my card won´t , and will only capture 704, as it works on 52 instead of 53.3 which is needed to get the entire range?

I don´t really like that, even though it probably isn´t anything there, as i haven´t seen anything except black bars(with noise) since i changed to the Dscaler driver, not sure if it uses 53.3 or the 52 though, but i guess it´s on hardware level.

[sanlyn]

Okay i watched again, and now i "See";D

You have fixed the noise, and the Black is Black, and the colors are stable, and the spots are removed.

A very delicate work i must say, and i am impressed how everything is in shape after such work, (i mean blurring can occur after denoise for example).

How did you make the background Black, white still cleaning the Colors and letting everything stay in shape?

Yes, you're developing a more critical eye -- which is what I had to do, and learned to work with filters, levels, and colors with the help of members here who dragged me kicking and screaming into finding ways to improve that tape's performance. I'm still working on it; problems later in the tape are worse.

That short demo includes 4 separate sections, each processed individually, down to reworking the fade-in and fade-out between each, and often working frame by frame. The black in the MGM roaring lion was first denoised, then levels, gradation curves, and coring filters were used to tame the dark noise and correct colors. There is still some projector hop and some rippling, etc. So...more work to do, still. Anyway, thanks for taking a look.

[jagabo]

So most card will capture the 720 wide range, even if, let´s say, only 700 contains anything, "real".
But my card won´t , and will only capture 704, as it works on 52 instead of 53.3 which is needed to get the entire range?

Your capture card will capture whatever it's programmed to capture. It looks fine to me. Worrying about 702 vs 720 with a VHS signal that only has a about 350 lines of horizontal resolution is pointless.

[zerowalker]

[QUOTE=sanlyn;2183120]

The black in the MGM roaring lion was first denoised, then levels, gradation curves, and coring filters were used to tame the dark noise and correct colors. There is still some projector hop and some rippling, etc. So...more work to do, still. Anyway, thanks for taking a look.

No problem, i find it interesting to see and learn how you guys work, and try to learn something from it, as you said, i get help from members here as well, even though i am not as far as you, i have atleast come much farther than the first page

But i am interested in the, Coring filters, what is that?

Your capture card will capture whatever it's programmed to capture. It looks fine to me. Worrying about 702 vs 720 with a VHS signal that only has a about 350 lines of horizontal resolution is pointless.

Very true idd, just hope it doesn´t insert some side effect.


And, did someone watch the sample i uploaded?
Cause i can´t seem to find a way to fix the, Black stripes that are dragged to the Right.

It´s not like Comets that appear Here, there and then, there. It´s always on edges and are like, smeared to the right or something.

[jman98]

No problem, i find it interesting to see and learn how you guys work, and try to learn something from it, as you said, i get help from members here as well, even though i am not as far as you, i have atleast come much farther than the first page

Indeed. Why one year from now when this thread has over 1600 posts on it I think there is an excellent chance that you might have possibly captured exactly one video. Perhaps in 100 years you'll actually finish this project.

[jagabo]

And, did someone watch the sample i uploaded?
Cause i can´t seem to find a way to fix the, Black stripes that are dragged to the Right.

They're only in the top field too.

[juhok]

Do I smell dirt on one of the video heads..

[jagabo]

That's what I was thinking. Or a problem with one head.

[zerowalker]

The weird thing is though, it´s not always, and on one tape, which is only about 10 min, there isn´t a single black stripe of that kind.

So can it be that the camcorder had dirt or issues with the recording to the tape, and not the camcorder i use for playback?

[juhok]

Yes, it can.

[zerowalker]

That probably is the cause then, as else it should appear on every tape, randomly or all the time right?

[juhok]

Not necessarily. Crappy heads might work ok with one tape, but not so well with another. Test with another player.

[zerowalker]

Oh, sadly i don´t have another Player (it´s Video 8), but i guess i should clean it, but i don´t really know how to open it, it´s not like a VCR, it´s more compact and stuff (camcorder).

But will see if i can try to get it open.

[juhok]

It's not a good idea to clean it if you don't know how.. take it to a shop and have it cleaned. I've seen too many botched DIY repairs, don't want one on my conscience.

edit: ^TBH you sound like you don't know what you're doing.