Well, VHS capturing Mostly cartoons, having some questions:)

[zerowalker]

Okay i cleaned it, i know how to clean the head, but i didn´t know How to get in touch with the head, but i did it more or less.

Here are 2 samples, before and after, though there is no black stripes here, maybe you can see some difference?

[juhok]

Cannot say- I don't have (and will not have) Lagarith installed and ffmpegsource says "insanity detected".

[zerowalker]

Oh, why not, is something wrong with Lagarith?
People prefer it over UT Video Codec, i myself do most of the time.

Edit:

You can use LAV Filter, it supports Lagarith decoding, i use it as it´s better than the original decoder.

[juhok]

UT works for my needs better. I won't install LAVF either, this is my work machine and I wan't to keep it clear of clutter. Btw how do you measure what "most of the people" prefer? Also, in absence of video, screenshot will be better than nothing.

[sanlyn]

But i am interested in the, Coring filters, what is that?

A coring filtering is a clipping or cutoff filter. You set it to find pixels that are at or below a specified value, and change their luma/color to the value you want. I used the VirtualDub coring plugin to find all pixels that were RGB 16 or below and change them to RGB 16-16-16. Avisynth's Tweak() has a similar function. I often use it for titles that have noisy black backgrounds. So what you see as "black" is really standard RGB16, not RGB zero. But it looks like zero on tv. Most of the fade-in/fade-up was masked with VirtualDub's FadeFX filter, and some were done in Avisynth. The coring filter was the last filter in the chain after all other adjustments. Some call it the poor man's noise filter, useful in black-and-white video. You have to be careful with it -- it can cause a severely "clipped", ugly look.

With the free VirtualDub Csamp pixel reader, you can play the video in VirtualDub and use Csamp to read the pixel values. You'll see that during some black sections the darkest colors are mostly RGB 15 or 16. The fade at the end was added later with Avisynth (the last fade is really zero black).

edit: ^TBH you sound like you don't know what you're doing.

I think a great many members here began at that point. I certainly did. And still learning. I've made some hilarious boo-boo's in this forum.

[juhok]

I think a great many members here began at that point. I certainly did. And still learning. I've made some hilarious boo-boo's in this forum.

Likewise. This was meant in a relation to the cleaning of video heads which is a delicate process. Sorry for bad choice of words.

[jagabo]

I used the VirtualDub coring plugin to find all pixels that were RGB 16 or below and change them to RGB 16-16-16.

Once again, in VirtualDub, black is RGB=0, white is RGB=255.

[zerowalker]

. Avisynth's Tweak() has a similar function. I often use it for titles that have noisy black backgrounds

I see, i have been using Tweak a bit myself and noticed it has Coring, and i set it to True.
But i don´t really see any improvements in dark areas(Black etc).

and juhok here are samples in UT.

And i don´t really know hopw i can say people prefer Lagarith, it´s just something i think, as Lagarith has better compression, has fast seek times, and everyone here seems to use it, and in many other places.

Only time people have been using UT is when Lagarith is to slow, or has problems.

[jagabo]

i have been using Tweak a bit myself and noticed it has Coring, and i set it to True.
But i don´t really see any improvements in dark areas(Black etc).

Because your darkest shades aren't below Y=16.

[zerowalker]

i have been using Tweak a bit myself and noticed it has Coring, and i set it to True.
But i don´t really see any improvements in dark areas(Black etc).

Because your darkest shades aren't below Y=16.

Oh, i see, but isn´t things below that, clipped?
It shouldn´t be anything below 16 right?

[juhok]

I used the VirtualDub coring plugin to find all pixels that were RGB 16 or below and change them to RGB 16-16-16. Avisynth's Tweak() has a similar function.

This description sounds like a http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Limiter

zerowalker: Before and after seem pretty much identical to my bare eyes and also with Avisynth/Histogram(mode="luma"). How about the tape that had the problem?

[jagabo]

i have been using Tweak a bit myself and noticed it has Coring, and i set it to True.
But i don´t really see any improvements in dark areas(Black etc).

Because your darkest shades aren't below Y=16.

Oh, i see, but isn´t things below that, clipped?

Once again, there are no pixels in your video below Y=16 or above Y=235. So there's nothing to crush. The output of Tweak(coring=true) will be exactly the same as the input.

The mathematical operation:

if Y is less than 16 make Y equal 16
if Y is greater than 235 make Y equal 235
otherwise, don't change Y

Even if you had pixels with Y<16 or Y>235 you wouldn't see any difference when viewed on your monitor (unless your video card's video proc amp is maladjusted) because the graphics card will do the crushing when it converts to RGB. The same with VirtualDub. The same should be true for Televisions but sometimes they mess up with Y<16 or Y>235.

[sanlyn]

I think a great many members here began at that point. I certainly did. And still learning. I've made some hilarious boo-boo's in this forum.

Likewise. This was meant in a relation to the cleaning of video heads which is a delicate process. Sorry for bad choice of words.

OOPS!

Anyway, there are dozens of how-to head cleaning videos and articles online. My first cleaning adventure came from a book on VCR repair. I was scared to death. I followed the book (it's a gtood thing the book had pictures!), got the right tools and cleaner, and went to it. Succeeded the first time!

[zerowalker]

Yeah well i did my first on my earlier VCR and it went fine i guess (it didn´t break), and the Camcorder still works.

I did as recommended and from a youtube guide, dry and/or 99% alcohol dipped papper.

and hold it against the drum and rotate it while holding it still.

Seems to work atleast, haven´t fixed any real problem for me yet though, but haven´t made any either



Oh and a question, what is a good way to clean different parts?
Let´s say it´s day from 1 to frame 1240, then it´s dark from 1241 to 6000.

Is it the normal Trim() that is appropriate?

[juhok]

Be careful with using paper for everyday cleaning. The paper is abrasive, it'll work, but it shortens the lifespan of the heads. Chamois tips are more gentle solution.

[sanlyn]

I see a lot of people use paper, but not cheap bargain copy paper (it's dusty), and certainly not that fancy woven "rag content" for resume's and never use lens cleaning paper (it has loose fibers). But I'm with juhok here, the chamois tips are the safest. They're not expensive, they last a long time, and you can use both sides of the tips. IF you want to get even cheaper, you can use cotton swabs on the plastic and metal rollers, tape guides and posts, and the audio and erase heads. Don't try to clean rubber belts, it's too easy to pull them out of shape or out of position. Some people clean the large black capstan roller; I just wipe them with a dry chamois or swab, as some chemicals can affect rubber parts. Don't wipe away any lubricant; they are there for a purpose (to lubricate moving parts, of course). Tape doesn't touch the lubricated areas anyway.

A drawing of the parts usually found in the tape path. The number of smaller parts and their placement might differ.

[zerowalker]

Okay can say that the Black Stripes are still there, so can pretty much conclude that it´s the Tape, as they always appear at the same places i think.

But the Chamois tips, can someone please link me where to buy it?
I don´t think i have seen it.

And yes we have paper with Rough surface (which i didn´t use, as well it didn´t seem safe), and paper with that Blank Clean surface, which i did use.

[zerowalker]

Okay did some more tests, and can just say that i must change my capture card truly now, cause the White Crush is to "AGC", i thought it would be stuch at a place and then all i fine, but it seems like places that are bright become "dark", even though white crush isn´t needed there.
And it isn´t fast enough to be discreet, so it will look bad if i speed it up, and it will be to dark everywhere though still.

as ATI Wonder doesn´t seem like my choice, i am looking towards: Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro

It´s the one you are using juhok, right?

Can you tell me more precisely wht it can capture and what it can´t?

Cause if it can capture HDMI, Component and all that with atleast 1080i at 60 (that will mean 30 fps but fully interlaced), i will be happy, though 1080i/p 60 fps would be nice)

EDIT:
This was not the one you had, i read it up*;P

[sanlyn]

The Intensity Pro will not capture copy-protected HDMI.

[zerowalker]

Yeah i know, but there are ways to bypass that

Though i don´t know if there is a driver tweak for that;S

But i checked the specs, it seems to support everything up to 1080p 30 / 1080i 60.

But what i can´t get specs on are the ADC, is it 10bit or 12 etc.

And what are the SNR, does it support the entire dynamic range that analogue stuff has to offer etc.

[zerowalker]

After reading around it seems like this card as the same problems my previous card i bought had.

With that i mean, it will drop frames and audio thanks to bad sync, so i must have a TBC.

And i don´t really want to buy a card, then a TBC, that´s just to much:S

[juhok]

Blackmagic Design cards, like BT878, need Frame Sync/TBC inbetween unstable source and capture card. I'm surprised if your card works without one.

I don't know what you mean by analog dynamic range. It will capture according to SD specs. 10 or 12 or 14 bits have nothing to do with it being able to capture "outside of the specs". Your source = VHS/Video8 - doesn't have "everything that analogue has to offer". Dimishing returns.

[jagabo]

VHS doesn't even have six bits of signal. The rest is noise.

[zerowalker]

Well i don´t need a TBC, i don´t think ATI AIW does either (may be wrong).

And with Dynamic Range, i meant the Audio, like SNR etc.

I know what VHS doesn´t have more than 6 bits, but you still want more i think, but 10 bit is enough, i think my card has 9 bit, and that should have enough space anyway.


But i can´t really afford buying a TBC, they cost a lot right?
And you want to keep the Chain of devices as short as possible.

[juhok]

And with Dynamic Range, i meant the Audio, like SNR etc.

If you think audio you don't need 120dB of SNR in your AD if you're recording material that has 30dB SNR.

But i can´t really afford buying a TBC, they cost a lot right?
And you want to keep the Chain of devices as short as possible.

Shortest signal path doesn't guarantee best results. It's more complicated than that. Dropped frames and/or desync or other problems are definetely not worth slight increase in PQ.

Here's something about consumer TBCs and prices http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html

[zerowalker]

If you think audio you don't need 120dB of SNR in your AD if you're recording material that has 30dB SNR.

I know that you only need a bit more than the original SNR for it to be "identical", but if i remember right, Hifi has some very high SNR, like 70db or something?

It´s on par with CD Audio.

Shortest signal path doesn't guarantee best results. It's more complicated than that. Dropped frames and/or desync or other problems are definetely not worth slight increase in PQ.

Very true, as long as it doesn´t add some bad patterns/noise etc.

But the cost of those TBC are about 3000kr without shipment for me (i live in sweden).

And that´s a very high price, when i need to add a new capture card to it aswell.

Does anyone know if the ATI on PCI need a TBC or not?

[juhok]

I know that you only need a bit more than the original SNR for it to be "identical", but if i remember right, Hifi has some very high SNR, like 70db or something?

It´s on par with CD Audio.

I was trying to make an analogy to VHS and 12-bit sampling.

Very true, as long as it doesn´t add some bad patterns/noise etc.

But the cost of those TBC are about 3000kr without shipment for me (i live in sweden).

And that´s a very high price, when i need to add a new capture card to it aswell.

Does anyone know if the ATI on PCI need a TBC or not?

Average price on eBay for used TBC-1000 is about $200 USD, with shipping and taxes it still falls far from 3000 SEK. AVT from UK is 165€ http://www.markertek.co.uk/Catalog/Time-Base-Correctors-Frame-Synchronizers/AVT-8710 - no customs duties to Sweden from UK. There are plenty of pretty cheap options. I do not endorse TBC-1000 or AVT-8710 over each other or anything else, I only wanted to make a case for the cheaper price.

[jagabo]

I know what VHS doesn´t have more than 6 bits, but you still want more i think, but 10 bit is enough, i think my card has 9 bit, and that should have enough space anyway.

Even 8 bits is easily enough.

[zerowalker]

Oh okay, well good that we understand what we meant with the Bits and SNR

But about the TBC, does the TBC-1000 work good?
As i have read that some doesn´t have True S-video and makes that Crosstalk pattern (Search for S-video Artifacts).

I only want the TBC to to what it´s supposed to do, nothing more nothing less.
I don´t care about if it has 10x RCA distribution and stuff, i just want it to Stabilize the Frame Sync.

And i read that this TBC you linked has Sharpness, AGC etc, isn´t that what i don´t want to have?
Even more adjustments i mean?

[juhok]

But about the TBC, does the TBC-1000 work good?

Well enough for it's (used) price.

As i have read that some doesn´t have True S-video and makes that Crosstalk pattern (Search for S-video Artifacts).

Not true. It supports S-video. There can be broken ones around like with everything.

I only want the TBC to to what it´s supposed to do, nothing more nothing less.
I don´t care about if it has 10x RCA distribution and stuff, i just want it to Stabilize the Frame Sync.

You cannot pick and choose. In this price class there are these few devices. There are all kinds of exotic high-risk options which may or may not work and may or may not cost less.

And i read that this TBC you linked has Sharpness, AGC etc, isn´t that what i don´t want to have?
Even more adjustments i mean?

I've never used AVT. I suppose you can select if you want it enabled or not. Download and read the manuals so you know better what they will and will not do.