Well, VHS capturing Mostly cartoons, having some questions:)

[jagabo]

But at the start of this forum i asked if 720x576 was good for capturing pal, and it jagabo you said it was, but i am starting to wonder now as of th aspect ration etc, and it says original is 352x288 as seen on picture, should i go with that, or twice it or something?

All analog PAL sources have 576 scan lines. If you want all the information in video, both spatially and temporally, it should be captured with 576 lines.

On the horizontal axis analog video is a continuous wave form, not pixels. Due to the low bandwidth of VHS tape it's limited to resolving about 350 vertical lines across the full width of the frames.

If you are making a PAL DVD you are limited to four possible resolutions: 720x576, 704x576, 352x576, or 352x288. With a VHS source the first three won't look too different. The last one will be noticeably less sharp. With a film source all four will have the same temporal smoothness. With a live video source the last will be noticeably more jerky. Even if you are going to make DVDs with the lower resolutions, you will benefit from capturing at 720x576 or 704x576 and resizing just before MPEG 2 encoding.

[zerowalker]

But, my capture card is resizing after the Custom Format, isn´t that a problem?

[zerowalker]

themaster1, can you help me how to fix that Smudged look on the the door:S

SetMTMode(4, 4)
AVISource("C:\Alice I Underlandet - Gammal\igen.avi")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\AAA.avs")
ColorYUV(off_u=-4,off_v=-4)
#SeparateFields()
ChromaShift(C=-2, L=-2)
ConvertToYV12()
fft3dfilter(sigma=4.1,sigma2=8.00,sigma3=6.29,sigm a4 =10.00, bt=1, bw=16, bh=16, ow=8, oh=8,plane=4, sharpen=0.0,interlaced=false,dehalo=0.0)
fft3dfilter(bt=3,sigma=0.1,sigma2=10.00,sigma3=10. 00,sigma4=3.47,bw=16,bh=16,ow=8,oh=8,sharpen=0.0,p lane=0,interlaced=false)
TTempSmooth(maxr=5, lthresh=9, cthresh=20, strength=4)
UnFilter(18, 27)
#AAA()
#Weave()
ConverttoYV12()
Trim(7724, 8200)

[jagabo]

But, my capture card is resizing after the Custom Format, isn´t that a problem?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Your should have the capture device set to capture at 720x576 and the software saving as 720x576. Resizing (if that's what you want to do) just before encoding as MPEG 2 for DVD will give the best results.

[zerowalker]

What i mean was, if i choose 400x576 (just for example) the capture will stretch, so i can´t capture 352x576
Why 720x576 instead of 756x576 which is 4/3.

[jagabo]

Why 720x576 instead of 756x576 which is 4/3.

720x576 is the normal size for DVD and most other standard definition PAL video.

[zerowalker]

okay, but the only thing i want is to be able to look at it, unstretched, correct aspect ratio etc

[jagabo]

You set the display aspect ratio when you encode the MPEG file and/or when you author the DVD. If you're only making files for viewing on a computer or Divx DVD players you might want to resize to a square pixel 4:3 resolution like 640x480. Most Divx DVD players will not accept anything over 720 pixels wide or 575 pixels tall. Other containers, like MKV and MP4, allow you to set aspect ratio flags at the container level.

[zerowalker]

yeah but i capture 352x576, the picture is stretched like to it, so i would need to resize it to match the aspect ratio, which i think would ruin more picture:S
and i am only going to look on it at my pc, so encoding is no problem

EDIT: I want to capture so it is the Original picture as how it should look, as that must be the best, as resizing ruins it, most of the time

[themaster1]

It's best to stay at 720x576i.If you go 352x576, which is dvd compliant, you will have to deal with a low bitrate (i think) and mpeg2 with a low bitrate (below 6000) is awful imo

[zerowalker]

but is 720x576 correct ratio?
isn´t pal 4/3?

[Brad]

720x576 doesn't use 1:1 (square pixels). It will be resized upon display to whatever you set when you encode for playback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_aspect_ratio#Pixel_aspect_ratios_of_common_video_formats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard-definition_television#Pixel_aspect_ratio
etc.

[zerowalker]

ehm, i am pretty slow at this sorry, but if i read that thing, i should capture 720x576 which is 5/4 ratio according to http://andrew.hedges.name/experiments/aspect_ratio/.

And that should be the correct Ratio, not stretched out wide or horizontal on the looks, correct?

But i don´t understand why it isn´t 4/3, as i thought was PAL standard, isn´t that CRT TV screen ratio?

Okay, was being stupid not to read that it compares to either 11:9 or 5/4, but that should mean it´s 5/4 as mine is Lettebox, right

[jagabo]

PAL CRT displays are 4:3. The picture consists of 576 discreet horizontal scan lines. Each of those scan lines is a continuous wave form. That wave form can be digitized with as few or as many samples as you want. The more samples you take the more the accurate the digital representation of the wave form is.


On a PAL DVD 720x576, 704x576, 352x572 and 352x288 frame sizes can all encode a 4:3 picture even though none of them is a 4:3 ratio. When MPEG encoded there is a flag that tells the player what shape the picture should be. 4:3 and 16:9 are the only two flags supported by DVD.

If you really have to capture at 352x576 then leave your video that size and set the MPEG flags to force the display aspect ratio to 4:3. Every MPEG encoder has settings for that. If you're not making a DVD you can set the display aspect ratio in whatever codec you use or whatever container you use.

[zerowalker]

yeah i know, but if i capture 352x576 it looks this picture almost:S
and if i just resize that or something afterwards, it just feels, bad, isn´t it better to capture the correct aspect and keep it that way?

[jagabo]

If you capture at 352x576 the picture is supposed to look that way when viewed as square pixels. You use flags that tell the player what shape to display the picture -- ie, stretch it horizontally to a 4:3 ratio.

It's not necessary to capture with square pixels and the display aspect ratio. All that's necessary is that you capture with enough samples to get all the detail from the analog source. 720 pixels is fine for standard definition analog sources. 352 is borderline for VHS.

[zerowalker]

Okay, as normally resizing isn´t a good idea as you lose quality and detail
But okay, but think i will try capture 704x576 or 720, depending on how it looks, as if i understand correct it is different from time to time

[jagabo]

Capturing VHS at 720x576 will give you a tiny bit more detail than capturing at 352x576. And more noise. It still will not have the correct aspect ratio until encoded with 4:3 display aspect ratio flags. Though, at 5:4, it will look close while editing.

[zerowalker]

yeah but the flag you are talking about, as i am just watching on the pc, can´t i just resize to that ratio?
as the results should be the same

[jagabo]

If you're only going to watch on a computer you can use whatever frame size you want (and your encoder supports).

[zerowalker]

Nicely
Thanks for helping me solve that, sorry for being slow, but really appreciated, many thanks!

[jagabo]

By the way, regarding the "smudged look on the the door" do you mean the posterization artifacts at the left in the first shot? Which filter is causing it?

[zerowalker]

Yeah that is probably the word for it, it´s the ff3dfilter thing, i copied my Avisynth there

[zerowalker]

Jagabo, or Master, did you figure out how to fix the Posterization artifacts?
As i can´t seem to fix it
If you haven´t or don´t want to try to fix it, i won´t "force" you to:P
I got so much help already

[themaster1]

Here is my attempt zerowalker ( http://www.sendspace.com/file/h2d7y9 ) but keep in mind i never work on cartoons so i'm sure there is room for improvement

The script:

AVISource("C:\Smudge.avi")
Assumetff
Separatefields()
fft3dfilter(sigma=2.0,sigma2=8.0,sigma3=7.0,sigma4 =10, bt=1, bw=16, bh=16, ow=8, oh=8,plane=3, sharpen=0.0,interlaced=false,dehalo=0.0)
fft3dgpu(bt=3,sigma=1.5,sigma2=1.4,sigma3=2.0,sigm a4=9.0,bw=32,bh=32,ow=16,oh=16,sharpen=0,plane=0,m ode=1,precision=2,interlaced=false,oldfft=false)
Spline36Resize(last.width*2,last.height*2)
FastLineDarken()
DeHalo_Alpha()
Spline36Resize(last.width/2,last.height/2)
Tweak(0.0,1.1,0,1.0,coring=false) #
Grainfactory3(1,2,1) # (need special version of grainfactory for yuy2 )
Weave()

[poisondeathray]

Another option might be using different filters or settings on the original. Most likely fft3dfilter is causing the posterization "oil painting" effect.

[themaster1]

Can you post the sample of the original cap (Alice I Underlandet - Gammal\igen.avi) zerowalker ? I've worked on your own processed avi thus far, not really recommanded

[zerowalker]

I looked on your test, it looked nice
But i wonder what you use x264?
I know there is a lossless thing for it, did you use that?
If so, can you use it with virtualdub?
Thanks, and Poision any filters you recommend?

[jagabo]

A little color correction and Neat Video in VirtualDub:

ColorYUV(off_y=-8, off_u=14, off_v=-10, cont_y=16)

It needs some deshaking too.

Xvid AVI attached.

[zerowalker]

Nice looking, but i don´t have Neat Video, i prefer free choices:O
But very nice results, after deshaking it, it should look fantastic i guess
Little blocky though, guesss that is Xvid.