Well, VHS capturing Mostly cartoons, having some questions:)

[poisondeathray]

"as good as possible" is subjective

Eitherway, that script is not correct;

If you are preserving interlacing you need interlaced=true +/- Gpu=true
McTemporalDenoise(settings="high", interlaced=true, GPU=true)

If you are deinterlacing, you need to specify that filter before MCTD, and MCTD would not use interlaced=true

In both cases, you could still crop before any of the filters, if you used the correct crop values, and it would be faster to process.



And then you have a decision either to encode with resize square pixels, or non square pixels. Also decide to leave it crop or leave letterboxing ?

[zerowalker]

When saving Uncompressed, or maybe Lagarith which i prefer is there any setting to prevent color space convert or something similar?
Virtualdub is the program btw, oh and when i am encoding, why do you convert to YV12?

Totally Offtopic, I noticed when i am encoding game captures through fraps, the encoded video is often a bit darker, i am using Avisynth with X264 in megui.

[zerowalker]

Oh, noticed now that i forgot to read Page 2.
But Poison, which is best to do?
Cause i guess Deinterlacing as a final product is best, as interlacing looks awful, but should i Denoise Interlaced and later on Deinterlace?
Thanks as always!
Edit: I am currently trying with this, but with interlaced i am forced to add borders, so i just took one randomly.
SetMTMode(4,0)
AVISource("F:\Desktop\Digimon The Movie\Test for Color in text.avi")
ChromaShift(C=-2, L=-2)
Addborders ( 0,0,0,70)
ColorYUV(off_u=2, off_v=-6)
Tweak(sat=1.3)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
McTemporalDenoise(settings="very high", GPU=True , Interlaced=True)

Edit 2: noticed that i can capture 768x576, i have captured 720x576 before for some reason, shouldn´t i capture with this?
or should i capture half of it, and use virtualdub to duplicate the line or something?
which produces best result?

[jagabo]

I used ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) to help eliminate the horizontal lines in the orange dinosaur in Lines.avi. Any cap from an analog recording is interlaced but since these all appear to be film sources the two fields come from the same film frame (there are no comb artifacts). So it's fine to treat these as progressive frames.

The two biggest problems with these caps is the horizontal jitter from not using a line TBC and the oversharpening halos from the VCR.

[zerowalker]

Okay, i didn´t fully grasp all that, but if i have ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true), should i not choose interlaced on Denoise filter?
Or Deinterlace later on?
cause sometimes you can see the Interlace things, you know then there are lines and between them is nothing, or how to put it:S
And should i capture 768x576 as i noticed i could, i was a fool not to scroll down before -_-.

Thanks as always!

[jagabo]

This post has an example of horizontal jitter from a VHS deck without and with a line TBC:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/306272-Computer-video-capture-vs-vcr-to-dvd-combo?p...=1#post1882662

Notice how the line on the left (no TBC) wiggles from left to right and the two fields don't always line up correctly. The line on the right (with TBC) is much cleaner. Unfortunately, there's no real fix for this in software. Sometimes I'll use Blur(0, 1.0).Sharpen(0, 0.7):



The line (again, a 4x nearest neighbor enlargement, 4 fps) is still wiggling but the comb artifacts are gone. This is a problem with VHS because the spinning heads cannot maintain their speed perfectly. They are continuously slowing down and speeding up. That makes some of the scanlines longer than others and causes them to shift left and right a little. A line TBC makes them all the same length again and stabilizes the horizontal position.



Here's an example of oversharpening halos:



Instead of a smooth transition from one gray level to another there are lighter and darker bands at the transitions. This is common for VCRs because they are inherently low resolution. They try to look like they have more resolution by applying a sharpening filter (along horizontal scanlines so you see the result on sharp vertical edges). You can try using BlindDehalo3() to reduce these.

You can see oversharpening in the TBC example too. Those were originally sharp white lines on a gray background. After recording and playback via VHS they acquired the obvious black halos.

[zerowalker]

Ah, so it´s the things that are on all the "Sharp Lines"?
i got alot of those.

[jagabo]

I added more information to my previous post...

[zerowalker]

I think i got a better hang of it, so i will have to play around to get my edges and lines to be how i want them to be, correct?
Sorry if i didn´t get it at all, you explain so much, and very good to, i am the one at wrong here, i am sorry for that

[poisondeathray]

I used ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) to help eliminate the horizontal lines in the orange dinosaur in Lines.avi. Any cap from an analog recording is interlaced but since these all appear to be film sources the two fields come from the same film frame (there are no comb artifacts). So it's fine to treat these as progressive frames.

Jagabo is correct. My bad. That last sample was 25p, I was thrown off by him using interlaced=true and assumed it was for interlace

You can still crop for a speedup, and MCTD doesn't need interlaced=true

[zerowalker]

Okay, well i am trying it right now, but with MT it crash alot, it seems, so playing around with the settings, if you know anything please tell me
but i still don´t get if i should deinterlace late on, how come it´s progressive:S
I am sorry for this stupid questions, i am a fool for not understanding, sorry

[jagabo]

You don't need to deinterlace. The source is interlaced but each field comes from the same film frame. So you can treat the video as if it's progressive.

Instead of McTemporalDenoise() try using TTempSmooth():

AviSource("Original 1.avi")
Blur(0,1.0).Sharpen(0,0.7) #clean time base jitter
TTempSmooth(maxr=7, lthresh=50, cthresh=70, strength=7)

You'll have to play around with the TTempSmooth() settings. Those are pretty heavy and you may find ghosting in some shots.

AAA() afterward will clean up the outlines a little more.

[zerowalker]

Thanks will give it a try!

Edit: When i am opening avs in virtualdub, i have choosen auto on both color depth compression and decompression.
And as i am saving as Lagarith, should i choos YV12 as it´s converting to that?

[Brad]

Why spend so much time fixing the VHS of a movie that's on DVD? Even if the Swedish track isn't available on disc, it would be easier to just sync it than run all these filters.

[zerowalker]

Well, surely, but got a lot of videos, and this one was a good example as it looks bad, as well as i like it this way or what to say, and don´t know how easy it is to get the dvd of this movie here, haven´t really looked, but no real matter as i want to know how to get the best of this

[zerowalker]

Hmm, using the TTempSmooth showed interesting results, but it seems that i am not capable of producing it without getting the ghost lines effect from what should be moving, i used AAA(), though maybe i should use some specific setting with it?
Well, will try playing around, a very nice but hard controllable filter

[zerowalker]

Just noticed, that my card changes Contras and Brightness automaticly, it showed after i played Snes through it, as if it went dark, and then bright, it would be very bright, but it tuned down after awhile, is there anyway to force this off?
And another thing, input screen can flicker blue if the input lines get waved, or how i should but it, not normally a problem, but wonder what i means. I can show some clips if you want.

Played Link to The Past, when i used the mirror in the Dark World, everything get´s "waved into" the other world. That brought the blue flicker, but it seemed that changing resolution for the input helped with it, but i just played around, so probably fucked it all up:S

[jagabo]

When i am opening avs in virtualdub, i have choosen auto on both color depth compression and decompression.
And as i am saving as Lagarith, should i choos YV12 as it´s converting to that?

Auto is usually fine.

Hmm, using the TTempSmooth showed interesting results, but it seems that i am not capable of producing it without getting the ghost lines effect from what should be moving,

Using a spacial noise reduction filter first will allow you to use much lower values in TTempSmooth().

MSmooth(threshold=20, strength=2)
TTempSmooth(maxr=3, lthresh=8, cthresh=8, strength=3)

Again, play with the parameters to suit your taste. I prefer to leave a little noise as it reduces posterization problems.

Just noticed, that my card changes Contras and Brightness automaticly, it showed after i played Snes through it, as if it went dark, and then bright, it would be very bright, but it tuned down after awhile, is there anyway to force this off?

That is a problem with some ATI cards. My ATI 650 USB2 does the same:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326560-Which-is-better-usb-stick-vhs-cap-or-hd-pvr-...=1#post2023227

It appears to be a problem with the Macrovision detection circuitry. The only way I've found around it is to use a "video stabilizer" -- a device used to strip some forms of Macrovision.

[zerowalker]

Okay, you answered many there thanks!

I don´t have an ATI capture card, but guess it maybe is similar issue?

[jagabo]

Oh, for some reason I thought you were using an ATI AIW. That must have been someone in another thread. Look through all the capture settings and see if there are any automatic gain controls you can turn off.

[zerowalker]

VCR and Output Enable is grayed at the other window btw

[themaster1]

You might try fft3dfilter and these settings for denoising UV and Y:

separatefields()
fft3dfilter(sigma=2.0,sigma2=8.0,sigma3=7.0,sigma4 =10, bt=1, bw=16, bh=16, ow=8, oh=8,plane=3, sharpen=0.0,interlaced=false,dehalo=0.0)
#fft3dgpu(bt=3,sigma=1.5,sigma2=1.4,sigma3=2.0,sig ma4=9.0,bw=32,bh=32,ow=16,oh=16,sharpen=0,plane=0, mode=1,precision=2,interlaced=false,oldfft=false)
# or for Y (instead of the gpu version)
fft3dfilter(sigma=1.5,sigma2=1.4,sigma3=2.0,sigma4 =9.0, bt=3, bw=32, bh=32, ow=16, oh=16,plane=0, sharpen=0.0,interlaced=false,dehalo=0.0)
weave()

[zerowalker]

Okay, will try it out, thanks!
But, i am starting to wonder, why is it so extremely much noise, is it, vcr,vhs,cable or card, or is it really this much noise and we just don´t see it when looking at those old tv screens?

[themaster1]

Why noisy signals hmm...
I'd say it's all related to bitrate-bandwidth and scalable economy. And the great idea behind all that is to "milk you off" till you bleed. But don't take my word for it.

[zerowalker]

I tried your filtering, and it shows some good results, but i would like to increase it, as it doesn´t remove that much noise currently.
I tried reading around, but guess better of asking the one who recommended it

[themaster1]

Well to increase it you have to play with the sigmas values if you're familiar with neat video it's the same principle without the noise pattern
sigma= high frequency
sigma 2 = mid fequency
sigma 3 = low frequency
sigma 4 = very low frequency

Now the hard part is to find a good balance because 9 times out of 10 most of the perceivable noise is located on the high and mid frequencies for Y but high frequency has most of the fine details.The higher the sigma the blurier it become. So for Y you got to be careful for UV not sure. That's why you have to use two instance of this filter one to filter Y and the other for UV.

[zerowalker]

I don´t understand how you decide Y or UV:S
but is it possible to have previe or gui to make you see changes faster, as i am currently writing in notepad, saving then dropping in virtualdub.

[themaster1]

Use AVSP to have a preview it's much bettter than the notepad, have a look here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=153248

Forget about virtualdub really
Edit:
If you want to see the effect on the luma component when you tweak the sigmas for Y use Histogram(mode="luma") at the end of your script:
ex:

Avisource("H:\myvideo.avi")
fft3dfilter(..........)
Histogram(mode="luma")

[jagabo]

But, i am starting to wonder, why is it so extremely much noise, is it, vcr,vhs,cable or card, or is it really this much noise and we just don´t see it when looking at those old tv screens?

VHS is an inherently low signal to noise ratio system. Ie, it's a high noise system. And you did see all that noise on old CRT TVs. Since the noise was different with every field it was less noticeable than when looking at still frames on a computer monitor. MPEG encoding can exacerbate the noise.

[zerowalker]

Okay, will try out the program and tell results, with the things i learned

Ah, well it´s good that it didn´t look this awful on CRT TVs then

But at the start of this forum i asked if 720x576 was good for capturing pal, and it jagabo you said it was, but i am starting to wonder now as of th aspect ration etc, and it says original is 352x288 as seen on picture, should i go with that, or twice it or something?

Thanks as always for everything!!