Best way to capture in Windows 7

[mister benn]

Hi guys.

Ive just bought a new pc with Windows 7.
I used to capture video from my Mini-dv camera , via Windows Movie Maker to an .avi file
I would then use TMPGEnc to encode the file .

Ive realised that neither seem to work on Windows 7.
I assume capturing to avi , then encoding to mpeg is still the best way ??
Its only home movies, (no not those type !) but like to produce a good quality.

Id prefer free (legal) software, but will pay if thats the real way forward.
I have tried the new Windows Live , which seems ok , if basic, but I cant see how to save to avi file.
I do have a firewire connection which I use.

Thanks for any help

[yoda313]

Use windv and then encode as normal. Should work just fine. You'll need mpeg only if you are making dvds or have a media player or stream system that only accepts mpeg. Otherwise you can encode to whatever you want. But it must be mpeg2 for dvd creation for regular settop dvd players.

[Digital-Overload]

Doesnt "Expression" or "Windows Live Movie Maker" replace Windows Movie Maker/Encoder.....

I use Expression for Converting to WMV-VC1, im not sure if it has a record option.

[mister benn]

Yoda - Thanks - I have just quickly tried 'windv' and it captures avi well for me, so happy to use that unless I can find one program that captures in avi and is good for editing.

Digital-overlord - Windows Live doesnt seem to be able to save to avi, unless somebody can tell me how. Else I would probably use this .
I am going to be burning to DVD, hence the need to then convert from .avi to .mpg

So I still need a piece of software that I can use to edit my .avi files (adding titles, cutting bits out etc) and then save to avi file.
I then need areplacement for TMPGEnc to encode the file to MPG so I can burn to DVD.

Before I go off on the wrong track, I am right in understanding that when I used to encode my avi file using TMPGEnc , it not only produced a smaller mpg file, but improved the quality of the picture as well ? Im sure it did.
If its not improving my picture, then do I just copy the avi file into Windows Live , and then save as mpg ?

Appreciate your help guys.

[Digital-Overload]

DV AVI has better quality then MPEG-2 Video.

Windows Expression Free has most of the edit options. I'll do a check when I get power back at my house, im pretty sure Expression has Encoding presets for Devices (Zune, Xbox 360, DVD Players etc)

[mister benn]

To answer my own question, 'encoding' appears to just convert a file, say from .avi to .mpg.

So I can capture a .avi file using windv , then use Windows Live to edit it , and save it to mpg ?

Or is there a better piece of free (or cheap) software to do my editing ?
Ive got so used to the way Windows Movie Maker allows you to view lots of preview screens, and easy cutting of segments out.

[yoda313]

For dv-avi and conversion to mpeg2 for dvd creation there are plenty of options.

avstodvd is one as well as multiavchd.

You can use virtualdub to do a lot of editing but you might have to be more specific on what types of editing. I don't think it is a full nle editor like pinnacle studio or sony vegas but it can quite a bit (cutting is just a part of what it can do). Than you can "frameserve" to an encoder like hcenc or quenc to get an mpeg2 file from the avi.

There is a lot of documentation on all of the programs I have listed.

Also just because there might be something else you can use doesn't mean the way that you are doing it is wrong. If you get the results you want you don't have to change.

But there are a certain minimum steps you have to take to convert captured dv-avi video and create a dvd from it. Those are inescapable. 1 - capture to dv-avi 2 - convert to mpeg 2 3 - author to dvd 4 - burn to disc.

[lacywest]

Interesting

[mister benn]

Thanks Yoda.

When I talk about editing, I mean cutting out parts of the captured avi file. Not just the start or finish but bits in the middle.

For example, I capture 5 minutes of footage from my camera to my p in avi format. Id then upload that file into Windows Movie Maker. WMM would show you all the clips Id captured, and would be split into say 5 smaller files as well, each with a preview shot of the start of that clip (Windows Live seems to show the same preview shot all the way along the storyboard ?)
On each small clip , you could then use a button to click on to splice the the clip , and then delete the clip you didnt want.

Having captured the avi file , I can upload the file into WMM version 2.6 which works on Windows 7 , but Id like to use a new piece of software to add better titles etc . I guess I can splice in WMM , then copy the avi into Windows Live. Just seems to be anothe step added in my equation.

[yoda313]

If you want to use titling in a gui format with simple point and click precision I dont' believe virtualdub is the tool for that. You can do all sorts of tricks with it and insert watermarks or whatever. But its not the same as wmm. Using avisynth can give it super powers so to speak but I'm no expert in avisynth so I can't say exactly what it can and can't do.

I would suggest looking into payware suites like pinnacle studio or sony vegas. They have multiple versions you can purchase. They have relatively low cost basic versions and then they step up in price with added high defintion format support. Pinnacle studio is more similar to wmm. I've never used Sony Vegas but I'm sure the layout is similar in essence.

If all you want to do is merge files and cut segments virtualdub works great. More advanced stuff requires deeper research and reading. For immediate gratification and possible smoother controls a payware nle (non linear editor) program may be more your speed.

I believe they have versions starting around 50.00 usd or so.

[mister benn]

Thanks Yoda.

I guess my best way forward is to just try some of these pieces of software. Hopefully most of them do a free trial so I can do this.
Worse case scenario I can at least use :

capture = windv
edit movie = windows movie maker
add titles and encode to mpg = windows live
burn = windows dvd maker

[yoda313]

@mister benn - yes most of the big name software packs SHOULD have trials.

edit movie = windows movie maker
add titles and encode to mpg = windows live

I'm not sure about this combo. Two things - does wmm let you encode directly to mpeg2? I've only used it a handful of times so I don't know for sure. If it did I would do all your editing in wmm and then export the mpeg2 file from wmm.

burn = windows dvd maker

I would not do that. You could AUTHOR the dvd with wdm. That is make the video_ts folder on your harddrive with the program. But I would use IMGBURN to do the actual disc burning (freeware). Be sure to use taiyo yuden or verbatim discs for best results.

Also regarding wmm I would recommend doing any editing in either wmm or windows live and exporting as dv-avi. Keep it as dv-avi for as long as possible. Than I would encode to mpeg2 with either hcenc or quenc. Those are two excellent freeware mpeg2 encoders. Since you need to do this step anyway I would ensure it has the best outcome possible.

Don't forget to use a bitrate calculator to ensure proper encoding the first time without the need to transcode it to fit a dual or single layer dvdr and reducing the quality.

If you wanted to minimize the backend of the process - ie encoding to mpeg2 and authoring the dvd - I would use avstodvd or multiavchd. They can accept dv-avi as an input and create a video_ts folder for you. I am 99% sure both can use imgburn to burn the project after completion without your input as long as you have a blank dvdr of the right size (dual or single) in the tray ready to go.

You can do this with freeware but how many bells and whistles you want in the editing process may be limited with wmm or this windows live that I haven't used yet.

I would say you can minimize steps but you should use the right tools for the steps involved. Cutting corners to save time is not always conducive to getting the best results - hence the suggestion for keeping it dv-avi as long as possible and encoding to mpeg2 only after editing.

[mister benn]

Okay - having spent most of my Bank Holiday Monday, and have got thus far .
I managed to install Windows Movie Maker , version 6, which works with Windows 7 .

1. Capture from camera, edit the footage, all in AVI format using Windows Movie Maker

2 . Encode the avi file to mpeg2 using AVStoDVD (which uses QuEnc)

I have then tried 2 options which appear to have resulted in very similar quality footage on DVD :

3A. Burned the mpeg2 file using AVStoDVD (which uses IMGBurn )

or

3B. Added a start menu and burned to disc , both using Windows DVD Maker .

The downside with IMGBurn is that the version I have has no choices of Menu (templates) other than 'Menu in Black'.
Im using version 2.5.5.0 of IMGBurn that came with AVStoDVD
Maybe I can install some other templates ? I will look into this if you think the quality will be much better using IMGBurn over Windows DVD Maker.

[Nelson37]

You asked about encoding "improving" the file, it does not, it makes it worse, every single time, no matter what encoder you use. You still have to do it for DVD output.
I would bet a small amount of money that what you are seeing is a De-Interlace happening, which throws away exactly half the video but can appear to be an improvement, until you know what to look for.

Imgburn is a BURNING program. It is not an Authoring program, it does not make menus. IMGBurn is, however, by nearly universal consensus, the VERY BEST burning program there is. It Burns, that is all it does. The benefits are not immediately obvious, you will find that more disks are more compatible with more players, and this takes time.

I have yet to find a MS-created video program that was not a complete and total waste of time. There are free alternatives that are dramatically better. GUIforDVDAuthor, for instance. That is an Authoring program, it does not encode or Burn (though it will launch ImgBurn).

[lordsmurf]

DV AVI has better quality then MPEG-2 Video.

That's not accurate. MPEG-2 has many variables.
DV is fixed to a single spec.

Don't confuse MPEG-2 with the DVD-Video specs.

[mister benn]

I have yet to find a MS-created video program that was not a complete and total waste of time. There are free alternatives that are dramatically better. GUIforDVDAuthor, for instance. That is an Authoring program, it does not encode or Burn (though it will launch ImgBurn).

Thanks for the info. I have just tried GUI , which may give you loads of options to create a static DVD menu , but I guess Im like many , that like the slicker looking menu titles that come with Windows DVD Maker.

Im happy to do the below as recommended by Yoda, but I cant see how in Windows Movie Maker ...?

"I would not do that. You could AUTHOR the dvd with wdm. That is make the video_ts folder on your harddrive with the program. But I would use IMGBURN to do the actual disc burning "

[Nelson37]

Anything, repeat ANYTHING that you can make in WDM you can make in GuiforDVDAuthor. The difference is, YOU have to pick the font and titling options, rather than just use a pre-set list. That is easier, at first, but soon you will want more options. Would you rather have a radio that only tuned 5 channels already selected for you, or would you prefer to spin the knob yourself and have ALL available selections? Animated buttons, custom shapes, intro video, multiple subtitles, it's all there.

As for the problem, I have no idea as i haven't spent more than 30 seconds trying WDM. There should be an option to just create folders, files on disk, something like that, this could also be an example of the "ease of use" limitations of such a program in that the option may not be there.

Also, note that the burning program used will NOT affect the quality of the video, assuming the disk works in the first place. A program that BURNS, and ONLY BURNS, has no effect on the video itself. There are many, many programs that do other functions than just burning, and these can and will degrade the video, this is one reason IMGBurn is recommended. It does tend to make more compatible disks, especially if you are using Dual-Layer disks.

[_MrC_]

The downside with IMGBurn is that the version I have has no choices of Menu (templates) other than 'Menu in Black'.
Im using version 2.5.5.0 of IMGBurn that came with AVStoDVD
Maybe I can install some other templates ? I will look into this if you think the quality will be much better using IMGBurn over Windows DVD Maker.

Menu templates do not come with ImgBurn (which is a burning software) but with AVStoDVD (all-in-one package). You can find more AVStoDVD DVD Menu templates here.



Bye

[lordsmurf]

Reading this thread has almost become painful and cringe-worthy.

Why? Well, I don't think this has been stated bluntly enough: Windows Movie Maker is worthless software that should not be used. WMM is decade-old limited junkware tossed into Windows XP so MS could say it came with free multimedia software. The end.

There are dozens and dozens of free and low-cost tools that work better, look better, and give less grief. Show us your idea of a "slick looking" menu title, and I can show you a better tool to accomplish it.

[mister benn]

The downside with IMGBurn is that the version I have has no choices of Menu (templates) other than 'Menu in Black'.
Im using version 2.5.5.0 of IMGBurn that came with AVStoDVD
Maybe I can install some other templates ? I will look into this if you think the quality will be much better using IMGBurn over Windows DVD Maker.

Menu templates do not come with ImgBurn (which is a burning software) but with AVStoDVD (all-in-one package). You can find more AVStoDVD DVD Menu templates here.



Bye

Sorry , my fault. Ive tried installing those templates but cant get them to unzip - i get an error "Cannot create a nre CAB, TAR... formats".

[_MrC_]

Sorry , my fault. Ive tried installing those templates but cant get them to unzip - i get an error "Cannot create a nre CAB, TAR... formats".

Use 7-Zip



Bye