Computer build questions on motherboard brands and cpu specs- vid encoding

[Nelson37]

I wouldn't call a Biostar board Cheap Crap. They are Inexpensive Crap.

[aedipuss]

cheap/inexpensive functional crap. i've built people comps based on biostar mb's and never had one fail. just don't expect overclocking goodness, or anything but a barebones basic motherboard that works.

[yoda313]

@deadrats - thanks for posting the links.

I did not know you could get a intel board at 50.00 or so. HOWEVER the cpu is an issue.

I was looking to get a REAL quad core processor. The cheapest core2quad at newegg or tigerdirect starts at 150 or so and up. That is significantly more than I was looking to dedicate to the processor part of this equation.

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Regarding the newest from amd. There will always be the next greatest thing. If I always waited for the latest and greatest I never would buy anything. I would have waited for the ps3 slim before I bought my ps3 40gb fat when I did a few years ago and I would have wasted the time I had with it for that "perfect" moment.

I do appreciate the warning of upcoming tech. However I won't be buying an am3+ board it looks like. I guess I'm not truly FUTURE PROOFING this board. I guess I'm NOW PROOFING this board. That way I can still get a six core for this but at another date.

I think I"m gonna have to call it and stick with amd since I want quad core capabilities and an extra 50-60 bucks is not in the cards for this build right now.

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@aedipuss - thanks for giving a neutral report on biostar motherboards. At least I know I shouldn't get completely hosed if I went with biostar instead of gigabyte.

Thanks to everyone who has chipped in to this thread.

I think if I can chip in more money to this project before I finalize it I might up the motherboard portion and go with a sturdier gigabyte board if I can swing it. Otherwise I think I'll aim for the gigabyte board I've been looking at and that retail amd quad core at 100.00 plus a basic 2gig ram stick. That should settle in around 170-180 depending on where I shop and any special bargains that might pop up on the day I spring for this.

Thanks again everyone.

[usually_quiet]

I checked the supported memory list for the BIOSTAR A770E3 AM3 AMD 770 ATX motherboard, and couldn't find 2GB memory among their suggestions that was readily available. Crucial has a memory finder, so I tried that. One of the compatible parts it found was a 2x 2GB kit made of two sticks of the same Crucial memory I suggested earlier: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148149

[Edit]Too late. The verdict is Gigabyte. I can't really argue with that.

[yoda313]

[Edit]Too late. The verdict is Gigabyte. I can't really argue with that.

Thanks. I do appreciate the post for the ram.

I'm nearly certain it will be the gigabyte board. However that could change at the last minute. But it would probably change to a higher model gigabyte board if I can arrange it.

I am grateful for all the advice and suggestions I've gotten in this matter. I'll certainly post what I do finally buy. I think it will be in a week or two but don't know for sure.

[intracube]

@intracube - I appreciate the concern. The only thing I"d be using sound for on the machine would be to check synch issues on video encodes. It would be a nice thing to have working but not critical as I could burn to disc or copy to a harddrive and test on another pc.

I also have a usb soundblaster LIVE sound board that I could connect. Would those be ubuntu compatible? The live 24bit model that is several years old - not the newer xfi models.

Sound Blaster cards are generally well supported under Linux.

I have a preference for slightly older technology - it's more likely to be compatible and have any serious driver bugs ironed out, compared to cutting edge electronics. So I'd definitely give the USB soundcard a try.

[yoda313]

sounds good intracube. I may do that this weekend. I still have ubuntu installed on the original motherboard in the case I"m going to use for my upgrade.

[deadrats]

I did not know you could get a intel board at 50.00 or so. HOWEVER the cpu is an issue.

I was looking to get a REAL quad core processor. The cheapest core2quad at newegg or tigerdirect starts at 150 or so and up. That is significantly more than I was looking to dedicate to the processor part of this equation.

you should not be looking at the core2quads, because as you already noticed, the prices on the remaining stock that is available is unrealistic, distributors paid big bucks for those cpu's and they are not about to sell them at a lose, outdated or not.

if you're dead set on a quad core and you only plan to spend about $100 on the cpu, then the X4 840 is by far the best bank for the buck you're going to find, mated to a reasonably capable $50 mb and you got a decent system.

you need to be realistic though, while i can understand being on a tight budget (believe me i understand) and i can understand the apprehension at "chasing technology" by waiting for the latest and greatest, at this moment in time it's really a bad move to make any purchase without waiting the 2 weeks to see what bulldozer brings to the table and how that affects prices of processors already on the market.

if bulldozer is a disappointment, then it won't really make a difference in prices of current cpu stock, but if bulldozer comes out and it kicks ass, you can bet that there will be some nice price cuts as retailers and distributors try to get rid of existing inventory to make room for the new stuff.

another very enticing option is amd's new fusion apu's, reports are that a quad core with fully integrated dx11 capable gpu will hit retail for about $100, supporting mb are rumored to also be quite cheap (can be had in the $60 range) and in some ways it will have lots of life as apps that uses amd's app technology are slowly trickling in.

i'm telling you from experience, one of the worst things you can do is upgrade right before (in this case 2 weeks) the new stuff comes out, because prices tend to drop, performance is always faster and while you will initially be happy with the speed boost of your upgrade after you get used to the faster performance you will be kicking yourself for not having gone with a newer generation of product.

you may have mention it already, but out of curiosity, what kind of setup do you currently have and what are your performance goals/expectations and more importantly what is the max you're either willing or able to spend?

[yoda313]

@deadrats - thats a good point about windfall price cuts with new tech. Since I am waiting to pull the trigger anyway for various reasons I'll try to hold out.

What is this fusion APU you mention? Is that some kind of light processor? Is it a stripped down cpu? I don't think I've heard that term.

Regarding expectations - I dont' really have a number in mind in terms of performance gains. I don't have a problem letting a computer sit over night to churn away on an encoding project. I guess my main goal is to get a setup that is CAPABLE of 6 core support. I really want the 4 cores for improving bluray conversion and this side by side to anaglyph process i've gotten into - though I only have 4 3d blurays right now and I've already converted them but I could get more and convert in a less time consuming manner.

I don't want to think that I'm ignoring anyones advice but I do have certain restrictions. Also I guess I've kind of settled on amd for various reasons - price number one. So I do understand there are better alternatives but given my limitations this seems to be the best way to go right now - with the ultimate goal of getting a 6 core sometime in the not too distant future but not the here and now.

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regarding current setup - its a athlon x2 2.7ghz on vista 32bit premium with 2gig ram. I have a 500gb spare internal drive that I do my encodes on. Its an hp desktop but the cpu was a replacement on a am2 board so I can't go any higher. Also I want to keep the oem install on it with various purchased programs I want to use in vista as is. I have a bluray bdrom on it for ripping.

[deadrats]

What is this fusion APU you mention? Is that some kind of light processor? Is it a stripped down cpu? I don't think I've heard that term.

"apu" refers to amd's forward looking generation of cpu's with a fully integrated gpu:

http://sites.amd.com/us/fusion/apu/Pages/fusion.aspx

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/01/amd-compares-upcoming-llano-fusion-apu-with-intel-core-i7-kil/

"app" refers to "accelerated parallel processing" which is amd's technology for leveraging the combined power of the cpu and gpu cores.

the only downside is that the first generation "fusion" processors use the "older" (i.e. current) phenom 2 x86 cores rather than the upcoming bulldozer cores.

i personally am not a big fan of leaving a pc at full load overnight, you're stressing the cpu, the hard drives (with the continuous read/write operations), the power supply and aside from all the juice you're using you're also increasing the risk of a hardware failure and associated data loss.

you should be looking to finish your encodes as quickly as possible, however based on your feedback concerning your limitations, the board i linked to is X6 capable, as are a few other in the $50 range; something to keep in mind is that many 6 core capable boards no longer support PATA as that is considered a deprecated interface, so if you have a hdd or older optical drive that relies on that interface you will need to pick up a PATA to SATA adapter (i'm pretty sure i've seen them at very reasonable prices).

then there's one other thing to keep in mind; if you do have it in your mind that you will eventually be going with a 6 core amd, then it's kind of silly to go with a quad core now, even a $100 one, and then switch to a 6 core; consider the math:

an x4 840 costs $100 + tax, you buy it, then 6 months down the road upgrade to the cheapest X6 (about $170), you have spent $270 + tax total and you ended up with a quad core that's just going to be collecting dust and a 6 core you'll be using on a daily basis.

or you just spend $170 + tax, buy the 6 core from the get go and you save the $100 you wasted on a cpu that you really didn't want in the first place.

do yourself a favor, before you spend a dime take the time and think things through, and try and project 6 months down the road and see if whatever decision you make now if you'll still be happy with it then.

[yoda313]

@deadrats - thanks for the defintion and info on the new stuff.

I do get your point about just going for a 6 core right now. However here's my reasoning for going 4 now with an upgrade path down the line:

I REALLY DON'T NEED THIS UPGRADE.

This is still kind of a luxury push albeit at a barebones minimalist approach. Yes in the end I'll be buying two processors. HOWEVER I don't think it will be six months down the line. Probably more like a year or more out. Even then I'm not sure.

I am pushing it to do even this much. I have two fully functional computers that do everything I need. They are just slow compared to whats available these days hence the desire to upgrade.

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Regarding the pata - sata issue - thats been brought by others earlier in the thread. The boards I've been looking at have pata connections so I'll be fine on that regard. I do appreciate the heads up on it though.

[usually_quiet]

@deadrats - thanks for the defintion and info on the new stuff.

I do get your point about just going for a 6 core right now. However here's my reasoning for going 4 now with an upgrade path down the line:

I REALLY DON'T NEED THIS UPGRADE.

This is still kind of a luxury push albeit at a barebones minimalist approach. Yes in the end I'll be buying two processors. HOWEVER I don't think it will be six months down the line. Probably more like a year or more out. Even then I'm not sure.

I am pushing it to do even this much. I have two fully functional computers that do everything I need. They are just slow compared to whats available these days hence the desire to upgrade.

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Regarding the pata - sata issue - thats been brought by others earlier in the thread. The boards I've been looking at have pata connections so I'll be fine on that regard. I do appreciate the heads up on it though.

I agree. If you want something better than what you have now, and a Thuban is not in the budget for the near future, you should buy a quad core in a couple of weeks that will meet your present needs, and upgrade later if possible.

A couple of years ago I was in a similar position, although I needed the upgrade. The slowness of my 1.6 Ghz P4 system from 2001 was becoming unbearable. The Propus CPUs were not out yet, but an Athlon II Regor 250 dual core would meet my immediate needs. I put a little more money into my motherboard, with the idea of either upgrading to a 125W CPU, or re-purposing as an HTPC down the road. I am not sorry in the least that I didn't wait for a few more months.

There is a lot of hype about AMD's Bulldozer and AMD's Fusion APU, but the technology is immature. According to AMD this is what is currently available for consumers to utilize Fusion: http://sites.amd.com/us/fusion/apu/Pages/apps-demos.aspx

However, I think that freeware Linux or Windows encoders (the preferred category of software for a low-cost Linux machine) that uses the technology and produces good results is unlikely to be available for a while yet.

[yoda313]

I have new wrinkle in the plans here. I've checked a local store that has the gigabyte motherboard 10.00 AFTER REBATES! The deal is good through June 5.

I'm thinking I could buy the motherboard and ram now since that would only be 30.00 and wait on the cpu.

One other concern comes from this note about the motherboard:

Recommended Power Supply 500W or greater
Manufacturer Power Supply Disclaimer To meet expansion requirements, it is recommended that a power supply that can withstand high power consumption be used (500W or greater). If a power supply is used that does not provide the required power, the result can lead to an unstable or unbootable system.Rebate Details

I"m planning on using a 430w power supply that is currently in the unit.

I'm gonna probably get the 95w quad core amd cpu. I'll have one dvd drive and one hard drive for sure. I'll either have an internal harddrive or a usb harddrive as my destination drive for my encoding jobs.

Will a 430w psu be ok with this? I MAY or may not add a video card into the equation. Assuming the motherboard video works in ubuntu 11.04 I won't need the video card and I won't have any cards in the slots. Is that ok?

This package deal would be just under 140.00 including tax. And if I make the trip to the store I'd save on shipping (it's not that far but I'd have to make a special trip of it - its not down the street but its not very far away).

My thinking is I could put that 30.00 of saving into an acceptable 500 watt psu. I could check the store I'm looking at and see if they have any 500 watt psus in that price range.

What do you think??

EDIT - I still can't pull the trigger on the full package yet so I can't walk into the store right now and get everything I want.

[deadrats]

a 430w power supply will be more than enough, look at the idle and full load power consumption figures for this system:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-980x-gulftown,2573-12.html

114.5w idle and 226w under load for a 3.33ghz 6 core i7 with 6 gigs of ddr3, 2 ssd's and a radeon 5850.

considering power supplies are usually somewhere in the 80 percent efficiency range, your ps could easily power that monstrosity, you should have no problem.

[jagabo]

a 430w power supply will be more than enough

Yes, as long as the PSU is from a reputable manufacturer. Tom's occasionally reviews cheap power supplies and finds that many of them can't even put out half of their claimed rating.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/low-cost-psu-pc-power-supply,2862.html

[usually_quiet]

I have new wrinkle in the plans here. I've checked a local store that has the gigabyte motherboard 10.00 AFTER REBATES! The deal is good through June 5.

I'm thinking I could buy the motherboard and ram now since that would only be 30.00 and wait on the cpu.

One other concern comes from this note about the motherboard:

Recommended Power Supply 500W or greater
Manufacturer Power Supply Disclaimer To meet expansion requirements, it is recommended that a power supply that can withstand high power consumption be used (500W or greater). If a power supply is used that does not provide the required power, the result can lead to an unstable or unbootable system.Rebate Details

I"m planning on using a 430w power supply that is currently in the unit.

I'm gonna probably get the 95w quad core amd cpu. I'll have one dvd drive and one hard drive for sure. I'll either have an internal harddrive or a usb harddrive as my destination drive for my encoding jobs.

Will a 430w psu be ok with this? I MAY or may not add a video card into the equation. Assuming the motherboard video works in ubuntu 11.04 I won't need the video card and I won't have any cards in the slots. Is that ok?

This package deal would be just under 140.00 including tax. And if I make the trip to the store I'd save on shipping (it's not that far but I'd have to make a special trip of it - its not down the street but its not very far away).

My thinking is I could put that 30.00 of saving into an acceptable 500 watt psu. I could check the store I'm looking at and see if they have any 500 watt psus in that price range.

What do you think??

EDIT - I still can't pull the trigger on the full package yet so I can't walk into the store right now and get everything I want.

Regarding the onboard graphics, the 760G chipset has no DXVA support for H.264, but should be OK for the basics.

I'm with the rest on the PSU. The manual recommended one for expansion, but I think you would only need a 500W PSU if you added a very power-hungry video card. I only have a 500W Thermaltake because it was a good brand and had a $20 rebate. It replaced a 350W PSU. The 350W PSU was enough to run everything (no video card, I just have onboard video) according to the motherboard manual, but I was nervous because it was just a cheap unit that came with the case.

[budz]

IMHO get a 500 watt PS which is recommended by most mobo manufacturers. I run a AMD II X4 630 Quad....but it's overclocked to 3.5...just my 2 cents!

[deadrats]

IMHO get a 500 watt PS which is recommended by most mobo manufacturers. I run a AMD II X4 630 Quad....but it's overclocked to 3.5...just my 2 cents!

there's one thing that many don't take into account and it's the relatively weak wiring and circuit breakers in most older buildings and homes; typically the most juice that older circuits breakers and wiring can deliver is in the 1800w-2500w range, these guys that go out and buy the obscenely rated power supplies are asking for trouble; 2 pc's with 1100w power supplies easily push the limits of many circuit breakers, take into account lights, refrigerators, a/c's, tv's and it should be obvious that a more conservative approach is needed.

he said he has 2 pc's, if each has a 430w ps that equals 860 watts just between the 2 pc's, don't know what his living situation is but he may need to consider the above.

also, he seems like a good kid (i'm guessing he's somewhat younger than me) so i would also advise him to not spend his dough just yet, based on what he said a) he doesn't really need the upgrade and b) he can't even swing a modest $140 in one shot for the upgrade, to me that says don't do it.

[yoda313]

Thanks everyone. I think I'll stick with the psu I've got for now since it seems like it is adequate enough.

(i'm guessing he's somewhat younger than me)

Probably - pm me and I'll tell you.

so i would also advise him to not spend his dough just yet, based on what he said a) he doesn't really need the upgrade

You are correct on that front - but I'm just itching for it.....

and b) he can't even swing a modest $140 in one shot for the upgrade, to me that says don't do it.

Actually I do have the credit limit for that without a problem - its just I'd prefer to have my sources set for it. I'm not that strapped - I just want to have a handle on it before I go off and spend way more than I really should.

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Regarding the power consumption issues that deadrats brings up - I don't think I've ever had two pcs running at the same time. I don't think that would ever be a factor but thanks for bringing it up.

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@ usually - quiet - thanks for the heads up on the h264 info. I do have older pci-e video cards I can dub in for that purpose. BUT I can still simply copy to a usb stick or burn to disc or dub to a harddrive for viewing on my other pc that is more than capable.

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I appreciate all the advice. --------------


If I go ahead with this setup I might put the motherboard savings towards 4gbs ram instead of 2gbs that everyone is pushing me for.

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Again this isn't finalized but I'm just about set and I think I'm ready to go once I have things lined up.

[usually_quiet]

The rated wattage on a PSU is the maximum it is supposed to be able to supply without failing. It actually only draws enough power to meet the demands of the hardware it is feeding, plus a little bit more due to less than 100% efficiency when converting from AC to DC.

Many people buy way more PSU than they need. I used a PSU calculator and it suggested my system only needed a 300W PSU as configured. It is still using about the same number of watts even with a more powerful PSU installed. I'm certain that most of the time it is drawing far less than 300W.

[jagabo]

My dual core Celeron system draws about 75 watts at the wall when idle, about 150 watts when encoding. I could probably get it up to 200 watts if I got all three drives and the graphics card working hard too.

[redwudz]

I have several server PCs that have eight SATA drives, a DVD burner and three fans and run fine with a 500W PS. They also ran fine with a 430W PS. They draw about 140 watts from the AC line. One of my other PCs draws about 130 watts. This from 'Kill-a-Watt' wattmeter. 140 watts at 120VAC is less than two amps. I wouldn't worry about power line draw.

[yoda313]

Thanks usually_quiet, jagabo and redwudz. I feel better about it now.

Assuming I keep everything the same I think I will turn the motherboard savings into a 4 gig stick instead of 2 gig stick. When I go ahead that is. - or 2x 2gig sticks if its cheaper than a single 4.

[jagabo]

Modern memory architecture is interleaved. Two 2GB sticks will be faster than one 4GB stick.

[yoda313]

Modern memory architecture is interleaved. Two 2GB sticks will be faster than one 4GB stick.

Thanks - thats true even if its not specifically dual channel ram? I believe the motherboard i'm after is dual channel capable. But it would be improved with 2x2 even if they aren't specifically dual channel?

[jagabo]

But it would be improved with 2x2 even if they aren't specifically dual channel?

Yes, as long as the two sticks match. Sticks marketed as dual channel are simply a guarantee of matching pairs.

[yoda313]

Great - thanks jagabo.

[usually_quiet]

If you want to buy 2 sticks of memory to operate in dual channel mode, it is better to buy a kit. There is no telling whether you will be able to buy the exact same part number the next time around.

It is rare to find memory that doesn't support dual-channel mode these days, but to be used in dual channel mode both modules must support dual channel mode. In addition, both sticks must have the same capacity (for example both are 1GB, or 2GB), both must be the same speed, both need to have same number of chips on the module, and both need to be either single-sided or double-sided. Even if you buy the same part number, memory chips may be sourced from different vendors to get a better price. I have read reports saying that it is better not to mix sticks that use chips from different vendors to use in dual channel mode, even when the part numbers, timings, voltages, etc. are identical for both sticks.

[RabidDog]

distributors paid big bucks for those cpu's and they are not about to sell them at a lose, outdated or not.

you can bet that there will be some nice price cuts as retailers and distributors try to get rid of existing inventory to make room for the new stuff.

I sense a discord in the matrix neo?

[deadrats]

The rated wattage on a PSU is the maximum it is supposed to be able to supply without failing. It actually only draws enough power to meet the demands of the hardware it is feeding, plus a little bit more due to less than 100% efficiency when converting from AC to DC.

you know what, you're 100 percent right; i just realized the logical inconsistency in providing a link showing a 6 core processor under load only using 220w and then turning around and implying that a 1100w ps would always be drawing 1.1 kilowatts, now that i think about it it's kind of a no duh, of course the ps isn't drawing max wattage all the time, it is was then it would also be supplying it to the computer parts all the time and it would fry your system in no time.

do i feel silly.