Type 1 or Type 2? How do I tell?

[GordRocks]

I'm trying to work with video taken with a cheap HD camcorder; Insignia brand. The camcorder is crap and I know it but I'd still like to use the video in Adobe Premiere Pro and it won't seem to accept it. How can I tell which Type (1 or 2) the video is? Or is it even an authentic AVI file? Any idea how to get the video into Premiere Pro V.7?
Thanks for any help.
.....Gord

[Baldrick]

What does mediainfo say? container and video and audio codec.

[GordRocks]

I don't know what any of this means. Does this help?


[Attachment 6837 - Click to enlarge]

[jagabo]

Check the file with GSpot. If it shows audio properties you have a type 2 AVI. If there are no audio properties you have a type 1 AVI.

[redwudz]

Not sure why I'm not seeing your MediaInfo attachment correctly, but looking at it from edit, it appears to be H.264 video at 1920 X 1080 @ 29.97fps with AAC audio. Type 1 or Type 2 is more common with DV tapes, not H.264.

Not that familiar with Premiere, so not sure if or why it wouldn't accept the video. Does it play back properly with VLC or other players that can do H.264?

[GordRocks]

.
.
Here is the capture using GSpot. I assume from jagabo's reply that this is a Type 2 file as it shows Audio Properties. Still can't get it to open in Premiere Pro.
.....Gord

[jagabo]

It's type 2 but it's very unusual for a DV AVI file to have AAC audio. I suggest you convert the audio to PCM.

[filmboss80]

No--that may have an avi container, but look at the right column. That's 1920x1080 video, and the codec says H.264/Mpeg-4 AVC. NTSC DV-AVI is 720x480 with a DV codec.

Screwed-up header?

[aedipuss]

avi type 2 just means it's written in the newer avi format that allows bigger files.

i'd import it into avidemux, select copy for both video and audio and then mp4 for format and re-write it into a new container. pp should like it better that way.

[jagabo]

No--that may have an avi container, but look at the right column. That's 1920x1080 video, and the codec says H.264/Mpeg-4 AVC.

LOL. You're right. I was so focused on the audio I didn't even look at the video.

avi type 2 just means it's written in the newer avi format that allows bigger files.

No, it means there is a separate audio track (in addition the the audio that's muxed in with the video).

[edDV]

A quick overview.



What this diagram does not show is a typical Type2 DV-AVI camcorder file will have both interleaved and separate audio. Type 2 was invented to give editors direct access to audio without DV demux CPU overhead.

[aedipuss]

since it's not DVavi, it's not referring to DV type 2, but the riff header information in the file that allows avi files larger than 1gb/4gb.

[jagabo]

since it's not DVavi, it's not referring to DV type 2, but the riff header information in the file that allows avi files larger than 1gb/4gb.

I've only seen "type 1" and "type 2" used to describe DV AVI. You're talking about ODML 2.0 extensions to AVI -- they allow for files >4 GB (and some other stuff which nobody seem to have implemented). I've only seen that described as "AVI 2.0". GSpot will show if ODML 2.0 is used (in the container info). MediaInfo doesn't show this.

So what the OP has is an AVI 2.0 (AVI with ODML extensions) with h.264 encoded video and AAC encoded audio. I don't now Adobe Premiere Pro accepts in AVI but maybe a VFW h.264 decoder and ACM AAC decoder will allow it to open the AVI file.

[Cornucopia]

since it's not DVavi, it's not referring to DV type 2, but the riff header information in the file that allows avi files larger than 1gb/4gb.

"Type2" as Premiere (like the OP mentions), Vegas, and most other commercial NLE's refer to it DOES imply DV as the codec. But ultimately, here's the difference:

In the RIFF headers,
Type1 sees: "IVAS" as the stream type. This stands for "Interleaved Video-Audio Stream". That's it. One stream, already pre-muxed within the container's muxing.
Type2 sees: "VIDS" + "AUDS" as the stream types. These clearly stand for "Video elementary Stream" and "Audio elementary Stream". Two streams, muxed within the container.

With DV capture of Type 1, the RAW DV stream (already muxed) gets saved AS-IS without any further processing. This makes for easier/less burdensome capture, but MORE burdensome processing/editing down the road.
With DV capture of Type 2, a neat trick is done where the RAW DV stream gets saved AS-IS - with the exception of not calling the stream header "IVAS", but instead calling it "VIDS". It also demuxes and taps off a copy of the audio, saving it to the "AUDS" stream. More burdensome to capture, but less to process/edit. Because of the way most apps read the resulting "VIDS" (nee' "IVAS") stream, the internally-muxed audio portion just gets ignored. The only other downside is the additional filesize (because of the copy of the audio stream) in type 2.

aedipuss, what you are thinking of is the AVI "Open-DML" spec, which is a quasi spec. The original spec as defined by MS has certain limitations. Many video-computer-related industry companies realized the failings of this spec and so created the "Open-DML" spec to overcome those failings. Even though it wasn't officially MANDATED by MS, because of the strong industry support, it has become the de-facto standard for LARGER AVI files (MS now officially promotes this version, without still mandating it - but that was at the point where they developed ASF/WMV...).
There have also been some less common/more proprietary Large-File-Overcoming variations using Segmented clips...

"IVAS" normally only exists within DV-AVI files, so there's rarely a Type1 of any other codec. So, assume "type2" when dealing with all the other codes.

I'm also pretty sure that the problem with the OP and the h.264 AVI file IS NOT related to either Type1 vs. Type2 or Strict/Original AVI vs. OpenDML AVI. Those are red herrings.

I'd think either Demuxing & Importing elementary raw streams, or file-serving from AVISynth would be a quicker way to get successful use of this material within Premiere.

Scott

[GordRocks]

Thanks for the reply, Cornucopia!
What program would you recommend to Demux this file? Are there any freeware programs to do this?
Thanks,
.....Gord

[aedipuss]

With DV capture of Type 1, the RAW DV stream (already muxed) gets saved AS-IS without any further processing. This makes for easier/less burdensome capture, but MORE burdensome processing/editing down the road.
With DV capture of Type 2, a neat trick is done where the RAW DV stream gets saved AS-IS - with the exception of not calling the stream header "IVAS", but instead calling it "VIDS". It also demuxes and taps off a copy of the audio, saving it to the "AUDS" stream. More burdensome to capture, but less to process/edit. Because of the way most apps read the resulting "VIDS" (nee' "IVAS") stream, the internally-muxed audio portion just gets ignored. The only other downside is the additional filesize (because of the copy of the audio stream) in type 2.

aedipuss, what you are thinking of is the AVI "Open-DML" spec, which is a quasi spec. The original spec as defined by MS has certain limitations. Many video-computer-related industry companies realized the failings of this spec and so created the "Open-DML" spec to overcome those failings. Even though it wasn't officially MANDATED by MS, because of the strong industry support, it has become the de-facto standard for LARGER AVI files (MS now officially promotes this version, without still mandating it - but that was at the point where they developed ASF/WMV...).
There have also been some less common/more proprietary Large-File-Overcoming variations using Segmented clips...

since it wasn't "captured" but a simple file copy none of that applies.

[Cornucopia]

Yes it does apply.
A "file copy" has to have some original, either as a capture or a render/conversion. Both operate with either VFW or Directshow (on Windows PCs) APIs, both of which use the same method of AVI file muxing/splitting (even though the actual program executables may be different).

Scott

[Cornucopia]

GordRocks,

I'd suggest AVIMux-Gui (freeware) for AVI demuxing.

Scott