interlace help

[nymph4444]

It is of the 1970's TV show
The Land Of The Lost

And they just put it out I gess like 10 Years ago.

But I just did not understand the option
De Interlace to Prograsive

You can go from
Interlace to De Interlace

Because De Interlace is when you make it Prograsive
But I don't get De Interlace to Prograsive???

[edDV]

This Saturday morning kids program was a mix of video, stop motion film and chroma key composites of film into video. It was intended to be watched interlace. Deinterlace would create quality problems with both the video and film sections.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071005/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_the_Lost_(1974_TV_series)

You can buy the 7 disc (43 episode) DVD set for just $12.88.
http://www.amazon.com/Land-Lost-Complete-Wesley-Eure/dp/B001SGN1JM/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie...5787241&sr=1-1

[edDV]

The 70's series "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" was shot on film. The DVD set is most likely progressive.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078579/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Rogers_in_the_25th_Century_(TV_series)
http://www.amazon.com/Buck-Rogers-25th-Century-Complete/dp/B0002MHDW4/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd...5789227&sr=1-1

[jagabo]

Because De Interlace is when you make it Prograsive
But I don't get De Interlace to Prograsive???

Are you reading my posts at all? I'll try one last time:

They are not using the word DEINTERLACE as a noun or adjective. They are NOT saying:

Take an already deinterlaced video and make it progressive.

As you surmised, a deinterlaced video is already progressive.

They are using DEINTERLACE as a verb. They are saying:

Take an interlaced video and DEINTERLACE it TO make it PROGRESSIVE.

[nymph4444]

Soory I do have the DVD set and I am just converting some and puting them onto my Hard Drive.
I got the DVDs say 10 years ago and I am puting some into mp4 on my computer.

Now as for what you just told me about De Interlace can make video prablems.
I think you helped me with something els.

I have a Program called Format Factory and when I converted some of The Land Of The Lost I had an option to De Interlace and I set it to YES.

Well when I played it back I got one whole video at the top of the screen and one whole video at the bottum of the scree.

And what you just told meclicked
It was ment to be seen Interlaced.

So I did the same converting again but this time I set De Interlace to OFF
But I set Interlace to YES.

And when I played it back the same thing I got a whole video at top of screen and a whole video at bottum of scree.

Now would I be right that this happened because I was making it Interlace a Video that was already Interlaced?

[edDV]

I'm not familiar with Format Factory and don't know why you are getting two pictures.

It is my guess that "The Land Of The Lost" is an interlace DVD.

I'm fairly certain "Buck Rogers" is a progressive DVD.

To be sure, open the VOB for each in mediainfo and check the details. I'm showing tree view.

For example, I've selected SCTV (Second City) to represent an interlace DVD. This series was shot in a TV studio with TV cameras.



This next VOB is a typical movie shot on film. I'm guessing your Buck Rogers is similar. Note 23.976 fps, progressive with pulldown flag.

[nymph4444]

Why did you give me a link to Format Factory I have it?

And Buck Rogers was a TV show and back inb the 1970's TVs still ware Interlaced.
So why would they shot it like a move?

And one thing you say Movie are on Film and TV show are in Feildsa.

They both use Film in the camaras?

[jagabo]

Why did you give me a link to Format Factory I have it?

The forum software automatically converts certain words and phrases to links.

And Buck Rogers was a TV show and back inb the 1970's TVs still ware Interlaced.
So why would they shot it like a move?

Many TV shows are shot on film then telecined for NTSC TV.

And one thing you say Movie are on Film and TV show are in Feildsa.

They both use Film in the camaras?

Everything that was broadcast on analog NTSC TV was interlaced. Film sources were telecined with 3:2 pulldown. TV shows that were shot on video tape were 60 fields per second.

[edDV]

...And Buck Rogers was a TV show and back inb the 1970's TVs still ware Interlaced.
So why would they shot it like a move?

And one thing you say Movie are on Film and TV show are in Feildsa.

Quick history: Before TV there was only 24fps film. When TV was invented, it was essential that that the new TV standards were compatible with transmission of material shot on film. In the early days, it was also essential that TV field rates closely matched power line frequencies so the Americas mostly went 60Hz and Europe and most of the rest of the world went with 50 Hz field rates. Each had a different method to play 24 fps film. For 60 Hz areas, the method was telecine (described above).

Further, when TV production began in the late 40's, there was no way to record except on film. It was possible to transmit live interlace TV at 60 fields per second but recording for separate time zones had to be on film (aka Kinescope). So from the very beginning, local TV and news production was mostly done interlace for live transmission, but TV series were mostly shot on film.

When videotape was invented in 1955, the first use was for delay of live programming for later broadcast in separate time zones. It was then possible to produce live interlace programming for the US east coast, record it and play back in other time zones around the world. This was done for news, sports and low budget programming such as Saturday kids shows. It also allowed timely production of daily variety shows like the late night talk, morning talk and soap operas without delays for processing and shipment of film. Still most prime time series were produced in advance on film.

The 70's Buck Rogers pilot was produced as a movie for cinema projection. When it was picked up as a prime time series, it continued to be produced on film. Prime time series are shot on film rather than videotape for several reasons, the most important is dual distribution for NTSC and PAL markets. Second most important, anything shot on film can be adapted to new technologies like wide screen progressive DVD, and high definition. These shows were produced with intention for long term reruns in various formats. So "Buck Rogers" was edited 24p, but transferred as telecine interlace for broadcast just like most other NTSC TV series. But the DVD was produced as 23.976 fps progressive just like a movie.

In contrast, "The Land Of The Lost" was produced as a low budget Saturday Kids show that used cheaper TV effects rather than expensive optical film effects used for theatrical release. Still many of the elements like stop motion animations and effects backgrounds were done in film format. So this show is a mix of 29.97 fps interlace and telecine film clips that were recorded to tapes as 29.97 interlace.

They both use Film in the camaras?

"Buck Rogers" would have used 24 fps film cameras. Editing would most likely have been done by cutting film from computer generated edit decision list (EDL). Effects would have been done with optical film composites. Today such a series could be shot with 24p HD TV cameras and edited digitally.

"The Land Of The Lost" had elements shot on film, then recorded to videotape as telecine. The main show was shot with TV cameras to videotape. The film elements were probably added later in post production but could have been done during studio recording.

[nymph4444]

Standard Movie Film has to be Developed after they shot.
But was this the same for the Film they used in the TV Camaras Years ago? When they were doen shoting s show did they have to get the Film Develop?

And just one thing?
If the 1970's TV show was ment to be Interlaced and I get this then why when I convert it to MP4 and I check YESS to interlace.

When it plays back it plays one video at top and bottum of screen at the same time?
Is it besause it is trying to Interlace an Interlaced image again?

[edDV]

Standard Movie Film has to be Developed after they shot.
But was this the same for the Film they used in the TV Camaras Years ago? When they were doen shoting s show did they have to get the Film Develop?

Yes in those days all 24 fps film cameras used film that had to be developed. TV series like Buck Rogers would be shot with cameras like this Panavision. Each film canister was good for 10-15 minutes of 35mm film.



TV news operations shot with 16mm cameras like this. Each TV station had its own film processing lab and projected film to TV live on these projector to TV camera telecine islands.

.......> Processing Lab .........>

Today TV series can be shot traditionally on film or with HD TV cameras like the Panavison Genesis. The box on the back of the camera holds hard drives or flash RAM drives.

[edDV]

TV studios use TV cameras which in those days recorded to interlace 2" video tape. Video tape requires no processing lab but shows like "Land of the Lost" were shot in pieces and edited later off videotape and film transferred to video tape.

........>

Many of the "Land of the Lost" effects scenes were shot on a chroma key stage. This way the actors shot against blue could be electronically placed (keyed) into miniature sets along with stop frame animated characters.



Example of chroma key scene in "Land of the Lost".
That animated Tyrannosaurus model was probably about a foot tall and the background set was small.

[edDV]

And just one thing?
If the 1970's TV show was ment to be Interlaced and I get this then why when I convert it to MP4 and I check YESS to interlace.

I don't use your Format Factory program and won't install it on my machine because it installs codecs that will cause problems with my other software.

Warning! Format Factory installs K-Lite Codec pack that might cause problems with other video software on your computer.

You should use the mediainfo program to confirm your DVD "Land of The Lost" is interlace. If so try encoding a test clip without deinterlace and with deinterlace. Then examine the results in various players. Choose the one you like best.

When it plays back it plays one video at top and bottum of screen at the same time?
Is it besause it is trying to Interlace an Interlaced image again?

Again this is unique to the program you are using.

[jagabo]

When it plays back it plays one video at top and bottum of screen at the same time?
Is it besause it is trying to Interlace an Interlaced image again?

Again this is unique to the program you are using.

I suspect that is supposed to be used like VirtualDub's "Unfold Fields Side By Side" deinterlace filter. You first unfold the fields, perform other filtering (with filters that don't support interlaced video natively), then fold (weave) them back together.

[nymph4444]

Thank you and you can see why I have trable understanding what is goin g on.

Standard Film for Movies is 24 fps and after shoioting the film has to be Developt.

When they did still use Film for Standard TV it was 29.97 fps and they had to get this developt after shooting as well.

But you told me TV was Telecinde or something like this what is that?

[jagabo]

Standard Film for Movies is 24 fps and after shoioting the film has to be Developt.

Yes.

When they did still use Film for Standard TV it was 29.97 fps and they had to get this developt after shooting as well.

No. Film for TV is also shot at 24 fps.

But you told me TV was Telecinde or something like this what is that?

You've been told this several times already. 24 fps film frames go through 3:2 pulldown to make 59.94 fields per second for interlaced TV.

[edDV]

But you told me TV was Telecinde or something like this what is that?

You've been told this several times already. 24 fps film frames go through 3:2 pulldown to make 59.94 fields per second for interlaced TV.

Remember this?



This is how 24fps (run 23.976) film is converted to 29.97 frames per sec for TV.

To return the 29.97 frame rate to 23.976 progressive, one needs to attempt inverse telecine (remove dup fields). For some types of programs (e.g. Buck Rogers 70's) this can be done. For others that were 29.97 native or mixed format, it can only be done with advanced techniques if at all.

In film terms "pulldown" means the rate of projector film frame advance to the gate is slowed so extra fields can be scanned to 3 fields, then back to normal speed for the normal 2 fields. To understand this you need to understand projector gates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector

Per Wikipedia

Film gate and single image A single image of the series of images comprising the movie is positioned and held flat within an aperture called the gate. The gate also provides a slight amount of friction so that the film does not advance or retreat except when driven to advance the film to the next image.

PS: You aren't expected to understand this easily. Most are clueless. Explanation is difficult. At some point it all becomes clear. Those that understood profited in 70's-90's Hollywood.

Keep asking questions.

[lordsmurf]

The 70's series "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" was shot on film. The DVD set is most likely progressive.

I don't know ..... depends on budget.
Too many TV shows have been dumped off from inferior broadcast masters. Most of them, actually.
i.e., tapes -- interlaced source content for broadcast.

[edDV]

The 70's series "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" was shot on film. The DVD set is most likely progressive.

I don't know ..... depends on budget.
Too many TV shows have been dumped off from inferior broadcast masters. Most of them, actually.
i.e., tapes -- interlaced source content for broadcast.

Could be either or a some of both. They don't say. It was definitely shot on film.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078579/technical

It's common for a "progressive" DVD to have interlace extras. One needs to run mediainfo on each selection.

[edDV]

For the record, we have been mentioning inverse telecine (IVTC) as a way to reverse 59.94 fields per second telecine back to 23.976 fps progressive frames. Every HDTV set uses this process to convert 480i or 1080i telecine to progressive for display. Here is a diagram of the process.

Inverse telecine begins with analysis and synchronization of the telecine pattern. Then the repeat fields (3 and 6 in this drawing) are deleted and fields 4 and 5 are reversed in order to maintain an odd-even-odd-even field sequence.

The resulting 8 field sequence is exactly the way progressive video is stored on DVD (i.e. as fields). A simple weave deinterlace results in progressive frames at 23.976 fps. DVD players convert 23.976 to 59.94 fps for output. They do this by repeating frames in a 2-3-2-3 pattern for analog component or HDMI output. "60 Hz" HDTV sets convert 23.976 progressive frames to 59.94 fps in the same way. "120 Hz" HDTV sets repeat 23.976 five times to 119.88 fps for display.

[nymph4444]

I am sorry I remember you told me tv frame was 24 fps and they had to Pad the feild.
I did not know that is what they called Telacene.

Now for one thing I never understood?

A CTR draws one whole image witch is all the Top Feild or as you may say all the Od Feilds.
Then as this image starts to Fade away it goes back and starts to draw the next whole image.

And it does this over and over and over again I get all of this.

But this is what I don't get when it starts drawing the first image it goes to the top of the screen.
When this image starts to fade away it will start the next image right under were it first started the first image.

Now when you watch TV I would think your eye see the image move up and down a little but you don't????

[edDV]

I am sorry I remember you told me tv frame was 24 fps and they had to Pad the feild.
I did not know that is what they called Telacene.

Now for one thing I never understood?

A CTR draws one whole image witch is all the Top Feild or as you may say all the Od Feilds.
Then as this image starts to Fade away it goes back and starts to draw the next whole image.

And it does this over and over and over again I get all of this.

But this is what I don't get when it starts drawing the first image it goes to the top of the screen.
When this image starts to fade away it will start the next image right under were it first started the first image.

Now when you watch TV I would think your eye see the image move up and down a little but you don't????

On a CRT field 1 (odd lines) is fading down while field 2 (even lines) is being written. The eye/brain averages this into a complete image. There is no vertical movement. Fields are scanned 59.94 times per second.

On a progressive LCD screen the separate fields are combined (for telecine source) and scanned as a complete picture 59.94 times per second.

[nymph4444]

Soory my post sould have went here.

If I just Decrypt VOB files from my DVDs they play ok on my Match Speed trio 5000

But if I convert them to say MP4 they still play ok.

But if I pick De Interlace YES or Interlace YES they play as dabble videos one on top of screen and one on bottum of scree.

I thought if you have a video that is Interlaced then you sould keep it interlaced. So I did I pick Interlace YES and De Interlace NO.

And it plays Dabble videos.

Now I know just keep these settings to NO and NO and it will play ok.

But what is going on???

[edDV]

Soory my post sould have went here.

If I just Decrypt VOB files from my DVDs they play ok on my Match Speed trio 5000

But if I convert them to say MP4 they still play ok.

But if I pick De Interlace YES or Interlace YES they play as dabble videos one on top of screen and one on bottum of scree.

I thought if you have a video that is Interlaced then you sould keep it interlaced. So I did I pick Interlace YES and De Interlace NO.

And it plays Dabble videos.

Now I know just keep these settings to NO and NO and it will play ok.

But what is going on???

Again, it is a problem with that particular program. Why don't you try Handbreak (free) instead and we can hand hold you through the menus. Handbreak uses the x264 h.264 encoder and has user friendly menus and extensive tutorial documentation.

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/HandBrakeGuide
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Handbreak+tutorial&aq=f



example of interlace VOB to h.264 (interlace) in mp4 container.

[nymph4444]

I tryed Handbreak and it never works do I need something with it?

If not what is the newest verson

[edDV]

Handbreak works very well. Newest version 0.9.5
http://handbrake.fr/downloads.php


Now that you have a better understanding of interlace and progressive, it may be easier to learn handbreak.

[nymph4444]

OK I got Handbreak the verson you gave the link to.
No I will tell you what I want to do and you can tell me how to do it.

I have a Mach Speed Trio 5000 with a 5 inch LCD screen. And it will let me output my video media to a TV HDMi port.

Now I have some VOB files I Decrypted from my DVDs I got of like I say 1970's tv show Land Of The Lost.
I would like to convert them to the smallest file size but still have good video picture.

So I would Like to use
MP4 H264
640x480
29.97 fps
44.1 Hz 128 Bit Stereo
Video Bit Rate 500 Bits Per Sec.

And can I do a fue video files at one time or if I do will they be linked togather?

[nymph4444]

I got Handbrak and it seem to work for my test.

So now just two things.
Can I convert more then one file at a time to mp4 or I have to do one file at a time?

And were is the Frame Rate Tab?

[nymph4444]

Can you convert a lot of files to mp4 in Handbrake or will Handbrake make one big file out of them?

[edDV]

Can you convert a lot of files to mp4 in Handbrake or will Handbrake make one big file out of them?

Handbreak encodes one input file at a time. The output file is the same clip as the input.

You can stack (batch) files in the Queue. They will execute one at a time. You can add more files to the queue while the encoder is working.

I suggest you test encode interlace and a second test with deinterlace slow, then compare the media player for deinterlace artifacts.