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  1. Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    Have DVDs always been Prograsive?
    It depends on how you define things. All NTSC DVD players output interlaced frames (fields, actually, 59.94 fields per second for NTSC). If the source was film encoded as progressive with pulldown, and if the DVD player is set for progressive scan, and if the display is also progressive, those fields get 'intercepted', rewoven into their original frames, and output as 59.94 progressive frames per second. The better progressive scan players can do the same for hard telecined DVDs, where flag readers can only deinterlace.

    Because DVDs were developed for what were then almost exclusively interlaced CRT televisions, then no, DVDs have always been interlaced and not progressive. But the content is and was often encoded as progressive.
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  2. Whether you can get progressive output will also depends on which output you are using. Composite and s-video are always interlaced. Component and HDMI can be interlaced or progressive.
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  3. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I think we should stick to interlace until nymph4444 gets it before moving to progressive.

    DVD is interlace friendly + uses tricks for progressive.
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  4. I think I get what you are telling me

    When DVDs first came out the players output as Interlaced Images because at the time CRT screens ware being used.
    But even then the Video on the DVDs ware put on them as Prograsive Images.

    Am I right did I get what you told me?

    And one other thing?
    When you are watching say a Prograsive Scan Image this just meens that Both Feilds are put on screen at the same time.
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  5. Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    I think I get what you are telling me

    When DVDs first came out the players output as Interlaced Images because at the time CRT screens ware being used.
    But even then the Video on the DVDs ware put on them as Prograsive Images.

    Am I right did I get what you told me?
    Yes. Except the video on the DVDs could have been stored as progressive or interlaced. Progressive videos were converted to 59.94 fields per second by following the pulldown flags. 29.97 fps interlaced frames were sent as 59.94 fields per second following the field order flag.

    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    And one other thing?
    When you are watching say a Prograsive Scan Image this just meens that Both Feilds are put on screen at the same time.
    Yes.
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  6. Member edDV's Avatar
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    There are two two types of DVD disc encodes, pure interlace and progressive saved as fields.

    Interlace DVD discs can be played interlace, deinterlaced to 59.94 progressive or upscaled depending on how you set the outputs on the DVD player.

    "Progressive" discs (e.g. movies or many TV series) can be played with hard telecine (interlace), 59.94 fps progressive (with 2-3 frame repeats) or upscaled depending on how you set the outputs on the DVD player.

    Players usually give a choice of output formats to the TV.

    Composite NTSC - 480i 29.97 fps interlace or telecine (depending on type of disc).

    S-Video NTSC - 480i 29.97 fps interlace or telecine (depending on type of disc).

    Analog Component - 480i interlace or telecine, 480p 59.94 fps, 720p 59.94 fps or 1080i 29.97 fps

    HDMI- 480i interlace or telecine, 480p 59.94 fps, 720p 59.94 fps or 1080i 29.97 fps. Some players add choice of 1080p 59.94 fps.
    Last edited by edDV; 16th May 2011 at 01:11.
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  7. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    I think I get what you are telling me

    When DVDs first came out the players output as Interlaced Images because at the time CRT screens ware being used.
    But even then the Video on the DVDs ware put on them as Prograsive Images.

    Am I right did I get what you told me?

    And one other thing?
    When you are watching say a Prograsive Scan Image this just meens that Both Feilds are put on screen at the same time.
    Interlace video is stored on DVD as a sequence of fields, each field sampled at a different point in time at a 59.94 fps rate.

    There is progressive source (e.g. film or progressive camcorder files) and there are progressive displays.

    Progressive source has the entire frame or both fields shot at the same point in time. Progressive video can be displayed as telecine interlace to a classic CRT or progressive to a progressive TV. A progressive video frame is stored on a DVD disc as two fields.
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  8. Well I do understand what you told me that it can be Prograsive iamges on a DVD or Interlaced images on a DVD.

    But would I be right that more then none the Images on a DVD will be stored as Prograsive Images.
    And if you have an Old Player it will output as Interlaced and if you have a new player it will output as Prograsive Iamges?
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  9. The video that's stored on a DVD can be either interlaced or progressive.

    Composite and s-video output from the DVD player will always be interlaced. Component and HDMI can be either interlaced or progressive depending on the source DVD, the DVD player, and the settings on the DVD player.
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  10. OK thanks.

    Now if you have a video player and it has a setting for De Interlace am I right that this meens it will turn the Interlaced image into a Prograsuive Image?
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  11. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    But would I be right that more then none the Images on a DVD will be stored as Prograsive Images.
    And if you have an Old Player it will output as Interlaced and if you have a new player it will output as Prograsive Iamges?
    See "What is DVD?" for details on the DVD format.
    https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

    Most commercial movie DVD discs have frames stored progressive. Sports, news and series like Saturday Night Live frames will be stored interlace. Home made DVDR discs should be encoded interlace unless the camera and editing format were 23.976p (aka "24p"). Home recorded 480i/1080i telecined movies can be inverse telecined to 23.976p and encoded progressive.

    Older DVD players only output interlace. In that case, progressive discs were played with hard telecine.

    "Progressive" DVD players add ability to output progressive at 59.94 frames per second over analog component or HDMI. To do this, an interlace DVD will be deinterlaced to 59.94 fps. A progressive DVD will have frames repeated in a 2x, 3x, 2x, 3x pattern to build 23.976 fps up to 59.94 fps.

    A third type of DVD player has the above but adds upscale to the user selections. Either type of disc can be output 720p/59.94, 1080i/29.97 or 1080p/59.94 over HDMI. A few players will offer 720p/59.94 or 1080i/29.97 over analog component.
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  12. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    OK thanks.

    Now if you have a video player and it has a setting for De Interlace am I right that this meens it will turn the Interlaced image into a Prograsuive Image?
    The DVD player doesn't say "deinterlace". It gives you an export format setting. If you choose progressive 480p, 720p, 1080p, then it applies deinterlace or inverse telecine or frame repeat depending on the type of disc (interlace or progressive) and the export format.
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  13. OK thanks for all the help I think I have it all now.

    But I do need some help if you can give it on Video Converting?

    I have a Match Speed Trio 5000 media player with a 5 inch LCD screen on it. And it can play all video for mats VOB MPG AVi and so on.

    So I took some old 1970's TV Show I have on DVD they just put out.
    Buck Rogers
    Land Of The Lost

    I used DVD Decrypter just to Decrypt them first so I have the VOB files on my Hard Drive.
    Then I used a program called Format Factory to convert them to MP4 H246 and they work.

    One thing my program Format Factory has an option to Interlace and I have it set to OFF
    and it has the option De Interlace I have it set to OFF.

    The mp4 play great on my player but if I set Interlace to ON the video plays on the top of the screen and the same video plays at the bottum of the screen.

    And it I set interlace to OFF but set de interlace to ON the same thing happens.

    Why?

    I thought if my videos are interlaced then I sould interlace them when converting?
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  14. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I don't use format factory so don't know why you are getting split pictures.

    Buck Rogers and Land Of The Lost were both originally shot on film but also used video effects. The DVD could have been mastered progressive but my best guess it is hard telecine (interlace) off the video tape. You would need to use mediainfo to figure out the format.

    These would would be very difficult to inverse telecine to progressive. I'd leave them MPeg2 just as they came in the VOB. Your media player will be fine with any DVD format.
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  15. What do you meen the 1970's TV show The Land Of The Lost was shot on Film all TV shows ware I thought
    Or is Tape difwerant then Film??

    And I have an 28 inch LCD monitor and I use VLC media player to play my DVDs.
    I have De Interlace turned OFF in VLC so is it playing the DVDs as interlaced?

    I always wanted to kn?
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  16. Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    What do you meen the 1970's TV show The Land Of The Lost was shot on Film all TV shows ware I thought
    Or is Tape difwerant then Film??
    Video tape is different than film. Film is 24 fps progressive. NTSC video is 59.94 fields per second.

    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    And I have an 28 inch LCD monitor and I use VLC media player to play my DVDs.
    I have De Interlace turned OFF in VLC so is it playing the DVDs as interlaced?
    Depends. If the DVD is encoded progressive with pulldown flags it is ignoring the pulldown flags and playing the progressive frames. If DVD is encoded interlaced you are seeing both fields at the same time. In that case you should see comb artifacts it the video is 60 fields per second video or 24 fps film with hard telecine.
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  17. I thought I read that before that Film is 24 FPS but I never undertand how that would work.

    I know you can shot Film at 24 fps and the Projector will show 24 fps but when they go to put it on TV I know they Up the Frame and then Down the Fram to 29.97 fps.

    But f you shot in 24 frame how do you up the Frame do they add copies of frames?
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  18. You don't see 29.97 fps on interlaced TVs. You see 59.94 fields per second. 24 fps film is telecined by showing each film frame for 2 or 3 fields, alternating between the two. On average that's 2.5 fields per second. 24 * 2.5 = 60.

    In Europe and other PAL countries, where interlaced video is 50 fields per second, film is usually sped up to 25 fps (movies run about 4 percent shorter because of this) and each frame is displayed for 2 fields.
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  19. Member edDV's Avatar
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    But f you shot in 24 frame how do you up the Frame do they add copies of frames?
    It is done by repeating fields, not full frames.

    Some homework required. Take it slow. It becomes clear 2nd or third read.

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html
    http://wi-fizzle.com/howtos/ivtc_explained.php

    Alternate view. 4 progressive film frames are converted to 5 29.97 fps (59.94 fields prer sec) video frames this way (aka telecine).

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by edDV; 17th May 2011 at 17:33.
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  20. I am useing Sopuer Video Converter to convert some VOB files I have from my DVDs they are like I say of 1970's TV shows.

    It gives me a lot of options for how to handle intyerlaceing.

    One option I do not understand say

    De Interlace to Prograsive

    I thought De Interlaceing is the mathod use to make Prograsive?

    So if I put a check in
    De Interlace to Prograsive

    what is it doing?

    I know what Interlace to Prograsive is
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  21. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    I am useing Sopuer Video Converter to convert some VOB files I have from my DVDs they are like I say of 1970's TV shows.

    It gives me a lot of options for how to handle intyerlaceing.

    One option I do not understand say

    De Interlace to Prograsive

    I thought De Interlaceing is the mathod use to make Prograsive?

    So if I put a check in
    De Interlace to Prograsive

    what is it doing?

    I know what Interlace to Prograsive is
    Do you want to understand what you are doing or want to push buttons?

    If the source is progressive and the program wants to deinterlace it, then the program is bogus.

    If the source is telecined film source and the program wants to deinterlace it, then the result will have a mix of blurred and clear frames.

    The correct response is inverse telecine. Inverse telecine removes the pad fields and restores 23.976 (24) frame rate . Then either the program encodes for progressive DVD or it repeats telecine for an interlace DVD. You get to select which in most cases.
    Last edited by edDV; 17th May 2011 at 21:48.
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  22. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Question?

    How did we get from how does TV interlace work? ... to methods of progressive inverse telecine so fast?
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  23. Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    One option I do not understand say

    De Interlace to Prograsive
    Translation: Deinterlace the video to make it progressive. If the video is already progressive that will probably mess it up.
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  24. Soory what I sould have asked is this?

    If you have something that is Interlaced and you want to make it Prograsive you would pick
    Interlace to De Interlace

    Because when you De Interlace something you are making it Prograsive am I right on this?
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  25. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    Soory what I sould have asked is this?

    If you have something that is Interlaced and you want to make it Prograsive you would pick
    Interlace to De Interlace

    Because when you De Interlace something you are making it Prograsive am I right on this?
    Does this relate to a DVD player? If so the only interlace in the DVD spec is 59.94 fields per second. If you select progressive 480p out in the player setup, then the player will analyze the interlace DVD playback for telecine. If it finds the 3-2-3-2 telecine field pattern shown above, it will apply inverse telecine to 480p 23.976 fps, then it will frame repeat in a 3-2-3-2 pattern to 480p 59.94 frames per second out the analog component and HDMI outputs. The composite and S-Video outputs will remain 480i. If the player finds no telecine pattern, then it will apply deinterlace 480i to 480p 59.94 frames per second out the analog component and HDMI outputs.
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  26. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    Soory what I sould have asked is this?

    If you have something that is Interlaced and you want to make it Prograsive you would pick
    Interlace to De Interlace

    Because when you De Interlace something you are making it Prograsive am I right on this?
    If you are talking about an encoder/converter, there are usually more choices than "Interlace to Progressive". First you need to identify to the encoder whether the interlace video has the film telecine pattern, or the encoder may analyze the file for telecine. If the interlace stream contains the telecine field pattern, the encoder will inverse telecine to 480p 23.976 fps. If it finds no pattern, then it will apply deinterlace to 480p at either 29.97 or 59.94 fps. Normally you will have a menu of deinterlace options (e.g. weave, blend, bob or smart). Weave and blend usually result in 29.97 fps. Bob and smart usually result in 480p 59.94 fps.

    An inferior encoder/converter will apply deinterlace to a telecine stream. The result will be alternating 3 clear frames then two double image frames.

    Note that DVD progressive must be at 23.976 film frame rate to be in spec.

    Note also that 480p 29.97 fps source can be interlaced to 480i and passed through a DVD player as 480i. On playback the DVD player and TV will treat it as 480i.
    Last edited by edDV; 18th May 2011 at 15:45.
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  27. Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    One option I do not understand say "De Interlace to Prograsive"

    If you have something that is Interlaced and you want to make it Prograsive you would pick
    Interlace to De Interlace
    The program is using Deinterlace as a VERB, not an NOUN. Ie "take an interlaced video and DEINTERLACE it to make it progressive".
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  28. Soory I have a VOB file I got from a DVD.

    And now I am converting it to MP4 H264 and I am useing Sopuer Video Converter.

    It has options for how I want it to handle the interlace.

    And the first option says
    De Interlace to Prograsive

    Now when you De Interlace something you are turing it into Prograsive are you not?

    So is it telling me it will take a Prograsive video and make it Prograsive?

    I don't get this option De Interlace it the mathode used to make prograsive.

    So how are they going from De Interlace to Prograsive?

    Or am I missing something?
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  29. Member edDV's Avatar
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    How do you know it isn't a progressive DVD?

    Will you tell us the title and date so we can research it?

    Or is it a camcorder DVDR?
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  30. Originally Posted by nymph4444 View Post
    It has options for how I want it to handle the interlace.

    And the first option says
    De Interlace to Prograsive
    It is using the word "deinterlace" as a VERB, not a noun or adjective. "DEINTERLACE (the video) to (make it) progressive."
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