interlace help

[jagabo]

OK if all the devices that Handbrakes videos are ment for can not play Interlaced Videos thats ok because Handbrake takes Interlaced Videos and tell H246 it is Prograsive.

And H246 encodes it as Prograsive so why would it not play right ?
If the devices want prograsive then it sould be OK????

x264 encodes the video as if it is progressive but the frames still contain fields from two different pictures. At playback those interlaced frames are sent to the player but the player is told the frame is progressive (because x264 was told the frames were progressive). So the player does not display the fields separately. It displays both fields at the same time. So you see comb artifacts.

You say Handbrake takes Interlaced video and tells H246 it is Prograsive and then the H246 ecodes it as Prograsive.

If I am right then the H246 just encodes it as Prograsive it does not make it Prograsive.

That is correct. When x264 encodes in interlaced mode the two fields are compressed separately within the codec. When the codec decompresses the two fields it weaves them back into a single interlaced frame. When encoding in progressive mode the entire frame is encoded as a single picture.

Also, when decoding an interlaced video x264 tells the player the video is interlaced. When decoding a progressive video x264 tells the player the video is progressive. That way the player knows whether it should display the two fields separately or together.

[nymph4444]

OK say I set De Interlace to Slow

Handbrake will then De Interlace it and make it Prograsive and give it to H246 to encode as MP4.
Right?

[edDV]

OK say I set De Interlace to Slow

Handbrake will then De Interlace it and make it Prograsive and give it to H246 to encode as MP4.
Right?

Yes. The deinterlace process combines the interlace fields into a 29.97 fps progressive frame (both fields are processed to represent the same point in time using various techniques*). The encoder outputs h.264 as fields flagged progressive. The media player would normally weave these fields and display as a progressive frame.


* There are various techniques used for deinterlace processing from a simple blend, to previous and post frame interpolation.

[nymph4444]

OK now this is the thing?

I get what you told me most Apple devices can show Prograsive videos and this is what Handbrake was for.

But Most DVDs are Prograsive if they are Films that is.
So when you take a Prograsive video and then ad a De Interlace Option to it you are giveing a Prograsive video another Prograsive encode.

And even if you set De Interlace to OFF Handbrake will still tell H246 it is a Prograsive vido and it will then be encoded as Prograsive.???

[jagabo]

And even if you set De Interlace to OFF Handbrake will still tell H246 it is a Prograsive vido and it will then be encoded as Prograsive.???

x264 isn't making the video progressive. It's compressing the video in progressive mode. Treating each frame as one picture instead of two pictures.

[edDV]

OK now this is the thing?

I get what you told me most Apple devices can show Prograsive videos and this is what Handbrake was for.

Many display devices have narrow video-audio format requirements. For devices like iPod or various cell phones, the requirements are very tight. Usually progressive, a specific frame size and compression codec. Also a very specific MPeg-4/AVC variation.

HDTV sets, DVD/Blu-Ray players and the new generation of media players support a wider range of formats. Almost all support interlace or progressive DVD. You yourself said your player plays DVD VOBs fine.

So you are doing all this because you want a smaller file or just want to understand the options?

But Most DVDs are Prograsive if they are Films that is.

So when you take a Prograsive video and then ad a De Interlace Option to it you are giveing a Prograsive video another Prograsive encode.

No. You don't deinterlace a "film".

You said your MPeg2 VOBs played OK didn't you? I'm assuming this applies to both "Land of the Lost" and "Buck Rogers".

You are asking here for a 500 kbps AVC encoded, quality reduced alternative to DVD VOB. To do that you need to identify the DVD format before you convert it to AVC.

And even if you set De Interlace to OFF Handbrake will still tell H246 it is a Prograsive vido and it will then be encoded as Prograsive.???

This is why you don't set it to OFF. And in Handbrake they don't call OFF a deinterlace. Handbrake is just passing input to the encoder. The only complaint is they identify as progressive.
...
So, how is that "Land of the Lost" encode playing on your player. Can you see any difference compared to the VOB play?

[edDV]

OK say I set De Interlace to Slow

Handbrake will then De Interlace it and make it Prograsive and give it to H246 to encode as MP4.
Right?

Yes. Tell us how it looks on your player.

[nymph4444]

First things first.

1.
Handbrake does a good job of converting to MP4 and they play ok.

2.
I understand now that H246 is just compressing the video that is all it does everything like making it Interlaced or Prograsive is a job for Handbrake or whatever other program you use.

3.
I know if I pick any of the De Interlacing options from the Dropdown list that is the type of De Interlacing it will aply to the video.
But if I pick OFF in the De Interlace dropdown list it will give it a De Interlace Weave and it does this because it must give it some kind of De Interlacing so it can give it to H246.

Ok I get all of this Handbrake must always give Prograsive video to H246 not that H246 can't compress Interlace it just is that Handbrake can't give anything but Prograsive.

Ok so I get all this so if I open a DVD of a Movie I know what you would tell me.
You would tell me a Movie is already Prograsive so you don't need to De Interlace it.

Ok I get that but even if I pick OFF from the De Interlace Dropdown list Handbrake will still give it a De Interlace Weave.

Ok so even if I don't pick OFF in the Dropdown list the other setings Fast Slow Sloest are all other types of De Interlacing as well.
And I don't want to give it any of them as well.

So would you not say Handbrake is not for taking in Prograsive video?

[jagabo]

Ok I get all of this Handbrake must always give Prograsive video to H246 not that H246 can't compress Interlace it just is that Handbrake can't give anything but Prograsive.

No. Handbrake can pass interlaced or progressive frames to x264. The problem is it always tells x264 the frames are progressive.

So would you not say Handbrake is not for taking in Prograsive video?

If handbrake gets progressive frames from the MPEG decoder they pass through to x264 to be compressed in progressive mode. So this works perfectly.

[edDV]

First things first.

1.
Handbrake does a good job of converting to MP4 and they play ok.

Is this just for "Land of the Lost"? or have you moved on to "Buck Rogers 25th Century"?

2.
I understand now that H246 is just compressing the video that is all it does everything like making it Interlaced or Prograsive is a job for Handbrake or whatever other program you use.

Some definitions:
H.264 (MPEG-4/AVC) is the video format
MP4 is the file container.

x264 is the h.264 compression codec that Handbrake and most other "free" programs use.
x264 can encode progressive or interlace. Handbreak just uses the progressive features.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X264

Handbrake is primarily a user interface that sits atop several other process functions (e.g. x264 and the various video/audio filters). It was the decision of the Handbrake writers to only support progressive video output (h.264 or MPEG-4 FFmpeg or VP3). They did this because they were mostly targeting media devices and cell phones, many of which can't process interlace video.

3.
I know if I pick any of the De Interlacing options from the Dropdown list that is the type of De Interlacing it will aply to the video.
But if I pick OFF in the De Interlace dropdown list it will give it a De Interlace Weave and it does this because it must give it some kind of De Interlacing so it can give it to H246.

No, in OFF mode it only passes the output of the MPeg2 decoder to the x264 encoder but Handbreak always tells x264 that the video is progressive even if it is interlace.

Ok I get all of this Handbrake must always give Prograsive video to H246 not that H246 can't compress Interlace it just is that Handbrake can't give anything but Prograsive.

Someday Handbrake will give the user a choice on this. Passing interlace as interlace will allow use of hardware deinterlacers or inverse telecine filters found in HDTV sets or other devices.

Ok so I get all this so if I open a DVD of a Movie I know what you would tell me.
You would tell me a Movie is already Prograsive so you don't need to De Interlace it.

A "movie" DVD can be progressive (soft telecine) or interlace (hard telecine or previously filtered). Most commercial DVDs will be soft or hard telecine. Movies captured from TV or downloaded can have many variations. This is why you need to analyze the source especially if you want to convert it to progressive h.264.

Ok I get that but even if I pick OFF from the De Interlace Dropdown list Handbrake will still give it a De Interlace Weave.

No. (see above)

Ok so even if I don't pick OFF in the Dropdown list the other setings Fast Slow Sloest are all other types of De Interlacing as well.
And I don't want to give it any of them as well.

So would you not say Handbrake is not for taking in Prograsive video?

I don't understand the question. your choices are

Deinterlace (off, fast, slow, slower, custom)
Decomb (off, default or custom)
Detelecine (off, default or custom)

If your DVD is Progressive (soft telecine) set everything to OFF. It is already Progressive. Other similar programs would give the option to convert 23.976 fps progressive (soft telecine) to 29.97 fps interlace (hard telecine).


PS: In the NTSC DVD world the only "progressive" option is 23.976 fps (soft telecine). But it is possible to disguise other types of progressive as interlace (e.g. hard telecine, 29.97p, 24pA etc). These are processed as interlace.