Few Questions on Capturing and my Tv Tuner Card.

[techspark]

Hi guys, i m using a pinnacle pctv 110i from the last 3 years. The problem is i have cable Tv and so the quality is not up to the mark. The PQ is ok but there is lot of noise and haze in it. Sound is okay..no complains with the sound.

Now i have decided to upgrade my local cable tv to DTH. I m planning on buying an HD Dvr Dth. Since i know you cannot transfer files from the stb to the computer, i want my tv tuner card to behave as an itermediate source and do the capturing while i m watching live on my monitor. Here are a few questions that i have.

1. My tv tuner only has s-video and rca in ports. The Hd STB has hdmi,component and composite outputs. I want to use component(as it is significantly better over composite/rca ports) out ports to watch SD content thru the stb, on my monitor.
2. I will be using an s-video to component adapter, will i see a drop in picture quality from component to s-video ???
3.Should i upgrade my tv tuner and get something like hauupauge hd pvr or avermedia capture card ?? Will i see a significant quality enhancement with these capture cards or my current capture card will be able to output and record equally good quality as these ???

FYI:
1. My main concern is SD content...so please suggest keeping this in mind.
2. If you think i should upgrade the tv tuner, then please suggest me a good PCIe X1 or Usb capture device. (File format is not an issue, i mostly playback the content on the computer itself. Storage too wont be a prob..i have 1 TB empty hdd with me)
3. i like the blackmagic intensity pro and since it has hdmi, will i see any further improvement thru hdmi over component for SD content ??
4. My budget is under $200 for a new capture card(if required)

Kindly suggest the best possible solution to the above requirements. You can see my profile for my comp config(if required) Thankx

[usually_quiet]

I didn't find an OS listed in your system specs, nor the PVR software you plan to use. Those can determine the list of available choices for capture-only devices and TV tuner cards

What component to S-Video adapter do you plan to use? Most are accessories for specific projectors, capture devices or video cards. They don't actually convert from component to S-Video. The adapter merely has extra pins for carrying component video that match extra holes in the mini-din port that are provided to accept component video.

[Cauptain]

My suggestion:

AVER TV HD DVR
PCI-e
RCA, S-VIDEO, COMPONENT and HDMI
100,00 $ only.

[edDV]

First, why not HD?

Are you North America? Or elesewhere?

If your cable SD is sub-par with the cable box, then it is sub par. You can't improve it.

Typical North America "cable digital" is 528x480i. Within that constraint, quality can vary.

You have options to increase quality if HD is an option.

[edDV]

3. i like the blackmagic intensity pro and since it has hdmi, will i see any further improvement thru hdmi over component for SD content ??

I thought you said you don't have HD cable so where did this HDMI come from?

[techspark]

Thank You for the replies.

I didn't find an OS listed in your system specs, nor the PVR software you plan to use. Those can determine the list of available choices for capture-only devices and TV tuner cards

Sorry, its windows 7 32bit. I m currently using christv alaong with my pinnacle pctv.

What component to S-Video adapter do you plan to use? Most are accessories for specific projectors, capture devices or video cards. They don't actually convert from component to S-Video. The adapter merely has extra pins for carrying component video that match extra holes in the mini-din port that are provided to accept component video.

This is the one i will be using. This will work fine right ??

First, why not HD?

Are you North America? Or elesewhere?

If your cable SD is sub-par with the cable box, then it is sub par. You can't improve it.

Typical North America "cable digital" is 528x480i. Within that constraint, quality can vary.

You have options to increase quality if HD is an option.

The channels that i need are only available in SD. Hence, no HD needed. I'm from India. The cable that i m currently using is analog PAL. The DTH stb is digital. So this will help in improved quality. I donot intend on increasing the quality or upscaling the video, my main concern is have great capture quality which when played back looks exactly the way i watched it live.

I thought you said you don't have HD cable so where did this HDMI come from?

Since hdmi is better compared to component, i thaught hdmi will give me certain improvement over component. I think i may be wrong here because component is able to carry upto 1080i..and since i need only SD, i dont think hdmi will in anyway improve the quality. Correct me if i m wrong.

Also guys...do i really need a new tv tuner or my pinnacle pctv with s-video input will do the job fine.

Thank you for the all the replies. Much Appreciated.

[usually_quiet]

Thank You for the replies.

I didn't find an OS listed in your system specs, nor the PVR software you plan to use. Those can determine the list of available choices for capture-only devices and TV tuner cards

Sorry, its windows 7 32bit. I m currently using christv alaong with my pinnacle pctv.

What component to S-Video adapter do you plan to use? Most are accessories for specific projectors, capture devices or video cards. They don't actually convert from component to S-Video. The adapter merely has extra pins for carrying component video that match extra holes in the mini-din port that are provided to accept component video.

<Snip>

This is the one i will be using. This will work fine right ??

<Snip>

Also guys...do i really need a new tv tuner or my pinnacle pctv with s-video input will do the job fine.

Thank you for the all the replies. Much Appreciated.

Based on the picture, it is hard to say for certain if your adapter will work because part of it is not shown, but I am guessing it is just a cable. If that is true, it will not work with your present TV card's S-Video input. Electronics and a power source are needed to convert from component video to S-Video. Also, if the adapter includes electronics that do not appear in the picture, but is intended to convert S-Video to component as you wrote in your initial post, it probably will not work. You need to go from component to S-Video, and adapters that use electronics are almost always one way.

Below are examples of what component to S-Video converters look like, although these are made for use in the USA:
Converts 480i component to S-Video: http://www.svideo.com/ypbpr2svideo.html
Down-converts HD component to S-Video: http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-video/video-converters/component-video-to-composit...ATCOMP500.html

A PCI-E capture card that accepts component video input like the AVerTV HD DVR might be less expensive than a good component to S-Video converter. Your PC specs and OS meet the AVerTV HD DVR's system requirements.

However, ChrisTV does not show the AVerTV HD DVR on its supported devices list. The only PVR software that I know of which works with the AVerTV HD DVR is the AVer Media Center software that comes with it. I have seen reports that there are a few third-party capture programs that work with the AVerTV HD DVR, but capture software lacks timers. Also, the AverTV HD DVR does not include an IR blaster.

One of the problems with unattended recording from a set top box is controlling the set top box, especially changing channels. Sometimes the set top box can be programmed to change channels, but if not an IR blaster that can supply the right codes to control the set top box is needed.

If you need an IR blaster, you could look into whether the Hauppage Colossus has the ability to control your particular satellite receiver. It will not work with ChrisTV, but it can work with Windows 7's Media Center if you purchase a software plug-in. While the Colossus is a new product and still a little buggy, some people are getting good results with it.

[Edit]I forgot to say if you must keep using your present TV card and the ChrisTV software with the satellite receiver and don't want to spend that much money on more equipment right now, you will need to use its composite adapter to capture video.

[Cauptain]

[QUOTE=usually_quiet;2077951]

A PCI-E capture card that accepts component video input like the AVerTV HD DVR might be less expensive than a good component to S-Video converter. Your PC specs and OS meet the AVerTV HD DVR's system requirements.

However, ChrisTV does not show the AVerTV HD DVR on its supported devices list. The only PVR software that I know of which works with the AVerTV HD DVR is the AVer Media Center software that comes with it. I have seen reports that there are a few third-party capture programs that work with the AVerTV HD DVR, but capture software lacks timers. Also, the AverTV HD DVR does not include an IR blaster.

AVERTV HD DVR works:

- Aver Media Center (MPEG2, AVI and MP4)
- Virtualdub (AVI)
- VH Capture (AVI,MPEG2 and MP4)
- Power Director 9
- Daum Pot Player

No Work in ChrisTV.

[techspark]

Based on the picture, it is hard to say for certain if your adapter will work because part of it is not shown, but I am guessing it is just a cable. If that is true, it will not work with your present TV card's S-Video input. Electronics and a power source are needed to convert from component video to S-Video. Also, if the adapter includes electronics that do not appear in the picture, but is intended to convert S-Video to component as you wrote in your initial post, it probably will not work. You need to go from component to S-Video, and adapters that use electronics are almost always one way.

Hi, thanx for the very detailed response. Very much appreciated. The adapter that i have is just a cable. On one end there are three component ports and on the other end there is the s-video port. I understand your above explanation but what surprises me is that component and s-video are nearly identical, so carrying a Standard definition video from component to s-video should be possible without the need of external power source. What surprises me more is if the cable cannot carry component to s-video, then what is it intended to be used for ??

Just Fyi
I donot intend on using HD. Whether i use component or s-video or composite, my video is limited only to Standard Definition. Will a power adapter still be needed. ?

A PCI-E capture card that accepts component video input like the AVerTV HD DVR might be less expensive than a good component to S-Video converter. Your PC specs and OS meet the AVerTV HD DVR's system requirements.

However, ChrisTV does not show the AVerTV HD DVR on its supported devices list. The only PVR software that I know of which works with the AVerTV HD DVR is the AVer Media Center software that comes with it. I have seen reports that there are a few third-party capture programs that work with the AVerTV HD DVR, but capture software lacks timers. Also, the AverTV HD DVR does not include an IR blaster.

I like the avertv HD, but there arent too many good reviews available on the internet. Alternatively, will it be better to use hauupauge hd dvr or blackmagic intensity pro(both have great reviews) but i think they will probably be overkill. However, I dont mind spending the bit extra for better quality and experience and i m not limited to ChrisTv either. Can happily get a new better software to drive these capture cards.

One of the problems with unattended recording from a set top box is controlling the set top box, especially changing channels. Sometimes the set top box can be programmed to change channels, but if not an IR blaster that can supply the right codes to control the set top box is needed.

I dont think i will need IR blaster. The set top box that i m buying comes with a universal remote and i guess that will take care about the channels and settings related to the set top box.

forgot to say if you must keep using your present TV card and the ChrisTV software with the satellite receiver and don't want to spend that much money on more equipment right now, you will need to use its composite adapter to capture video.

I m still not too sure whether its worth spending on the new equipement. As said before, my main use is only Standard Definition channels. If i can get a considerable quality enhancement with these new equipment, then i will happily spend the cash. If not, i think i will be better off using my current pctv and saving on a few bucks now. What do you suggest...??

Thanx again for all your help and valuable inputs. Cheers.

[techspark]

AVERTV HD DVR works:

- Aver Media Center (MPEG2, AVI and MP4)
- Virtualdub (AVI)
- VH Capture (AVI,MPEG2 and MP4)
- Power Director 9
- Daum Pot Player

No Work in ChrisTV.

Thanx for the inputs, but i m just a lil concerned as there arent many good reviews on the net. But will definately consider it. Thanx.

[usually_quiet]

Hi, thanx for the very detailed response. Very much appreciated. The adapter that i have is just a cable. On one end there are three component ports and on the other end there is the s-video port. I understand your above explanation but what surprises me is that component and s-video are nearly identical, so carrying a Standard definition video from component to s-video should be possible without the need of external power source. What surprises me more is if the cable cannot carry component to s-video, then what is it intended to be used for ??

They aren't similar at all. Analog component video in consumer electronics is YPbPr with sync on luma, where the information is encoded on 3 channels. S-Video is encoded on two channels, one for luma (luminance, intensity) and one for chroma (color).

If the S-video connection on the cable in the picture only has 4 pins, that cable is probably an accessory made for a specific video device that can use the same pins for component video, or composite video plus audio, or s-video. One of the device's settings would determine what the pins would carry.

I donot intend on using HD. Whether i use component or s-video or composite, my video is limited only to Standard Definition. Will a power adapter still be needed. ?

Yes. One of the converters I linked to only converts 480i component to 480i S-Video and 480i composite. It doesn't convert 1080i, 720p or 480p component video to 480i.

[techspark]

So i guess getting avertv Capture hd will be my best bet as far as quality goes. Its available for $130 here and comes with a remote and 10-in one component hdmi cable. What do you suggest...will this show a considerable increase in the recording quality compared to my current pinnacle pctv ?

[usually_quiet]

So i guess getting avertv Capture hd will be my best bet as far as quality goes. Its available for $130 here and comes with a remote and 10-in one component hdmi cable. What do you suggest...will this show a considerable increase in the recording quality compared to my current pinnacle pctv ?

I guess the capture device known as AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR in the US must be called the AverTV Capture HD MTVHDDVRR in some othe countries.

I don't have an AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR. I only know it by specs and reviews. Reviews from people using the AverTV HD PVR MTVHDDVRR to capture TV are less numerous than reviews from people using it to capture video from their game console, but a fair percentage seem happy with it. However, it is true that not everyone is happy with it.

That being said, I have learned a couple of things from reading many reviews written about many different video capture devices, they all get a lot of bad reviews, and invariably there are also complaints about the software that comes with the capture device. It is really hard to tell the good products from the bad at times without trying them. PC video capture is a somewhat uncertain undertaking because a lot of factors affect the outcome.

I have seen videos demonstrating it is possible to capture video from a component connection in very good quality using the AverTV HD DVR. Assuming your satellite receiver is getting a strong signal, you should be able to do that as well. However, you will need to test various settings to find out what works best for your situation. It is possible you will discover that using different software than what is provided by AVerMedia improves quality, but making timed recordings while you are not available to start and stop the capture may not be possible using something other than the manufacturer's software.

[Cauptain]

So i guess getting avertv Capture hd will be my best bet as far as quality goes. Its available for $130 here and comes with a remote and 10-in one component hdmi cable. What do you suggest...will this show a considerable increase in the recording quality compared to my current pinnacle pctv ?

For AVERTV HD I´m use a VirtualDub (HDMI), AMARECTV(HDMI) and AverMCenter (MPÈG2 - COMPONENT).

The image quality for Consoles is very good. Look this:

720p:


720p:


1080p:

[techspark]

I guess the capture device known as AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR in the US must be called the AverTV Capture HD MTVHDDVRR in some othe countries.

http://www.avermedia.com/avertv/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=531

Its this one. From the specs it looks really good and comes bundled with all the necessary cables.

I don't have an AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR. I only know it by specs and reviews. Reviews from people using the AverTV HD PVR MTVHDDVRR to capture TV are less numerous than reviews from people using it to capture video from their game console, but a fair percentage seem happy with it. However, it is true that not everyone is happy with it.That being said, I have learned a couple of things from reading many reviews written about many different video capture devices, they all get a lot of bad reviews, and invariably there are also complaints about the software that comes with the capture device. It is really hard to tell the good products from the bad at times without trying them. PC video capture is a somewhat uncertain undertaking because a lot of factors affect the outcome

I agree but looking at the price difference of this against the hauppauge hd dvr or the blackmagic intensity pro, i think this will be the best to get. Both hauppauge and blackmagic are 2X the price of avertv here and they do not provide as much support as avermedia does here.

. I have seen videos demonstrating it is possible to capture video from a component connection in very good quality using the AverTV HD DVR. Assuming your satellite receiver is getting a strong signal, you should be able to do that as well. However, you will need to test various settings to find out what works best for your situation. It is possible you will discover that using different software than what is provided by AVerMedia improves quality, but making timed recordings while you are not available to start and stop the capture may not be possible using something other than the manufacturer's software.

I couldnt agree more. This is very true and experienced by me too. About 3 years back, when i got my Pinnacle Pctv card, the quality through the bundled tvcenter software was horrible. Just not acceptable, videos were full of noise and haze. I initially thaught i had a bad piece or some settings need to be changed, but after days of trying, i just couldnt get the quality better.Finally, after hours of surfing the net i found christv and was amazed by the quality enhancement. All my theories of a bad card/hardware fault were proved wrong and i was made to accept the fact that the software can play a major role in controlling the quality of video. Luckily christv was designed specially to overcome the poor quality from the native pinnacle software and hence it had all the features supported, including the remote and timeshift recording.

I think avertv is the way forward. I will be getting it very soon. I'm still open to any other suggestions though. Thanks a lot for your help and valuable inputs.

[techspark]

For AVERTV HD I´m use a VirtualDub (HDMI), AMARECTV(HDMI) and AverMCenter (MPÈG2 - COMPONENT).

The image quality for Consoles is very good. Look this:

Thank you...the videos look really good. Thanx for sharing them. I will be buying avermedia capturehd then ! Will update you guys when i get it

[usually_quiet]

I guess the capture device known as AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR in the US must be called the AverTV Capture HD MTVHDDVRR in some othe countries.

http://www.avermedia.com/avertv/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=531

Its this one. From the specs it looks really good and comes bundled with all the necessary cables.

The card you are buying is not the same as the AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR, although their capture abilities seem very similar.

The AverTV Capture HD has a TV tuner, and captures. The AverTV HD DVR sold in the US has no TV tuner. It is for capture only. From the description at AverMedia's global website, the AverTV Capture HD seems like it is at least partly compatible with some versions of Windows Media Center. The AverTV HD DVR cannot be used with any version of Windows Media Center.

[techspark]

The card you are buying is not the same as the AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR, although their capture abilities seem very similar.

The AverTV Capture HD has a TV tuner, and captures. The AverTV HD DVR sold in the US has no TV tuner. It is for capture only. From the description at AverMedia's global website, the AverTV Capture HD seems like it is at least partly compatible with some versions of Windows Media Center. The AverTV HD DVR cannot be used with any version of Windows Media Center.

So the capture hd is probably better then the US version right ?? Does it matter if it can be used with media center, as i will mostly be using the bundled software or a buy a good thrid party one. ?

[usually_quiet]

The card you are buying is not the same as the AverTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR, although their capture abilities seem very similar.

The AverTV Capture HD has a TV tuner, and captures. The AverTV HD DVR sold in the US has no TV tuner. It is for capture only. From the description at AverMedia's global website, the AverTV Capture HD seems like it is at least partly compatible with some versions of Windows Media Center. The AverTV HD DVR cannot be used with any version of Windows Media Center.

So the capture hd is probably better then the US version right ?? Does it matter if it can be used with media center, as i will mostly be using the bundled software or a buy a good thrid party one. ?

The main difference between the two is the tuner. The capture hardware is similar. Taking another look at AVerMedia's global website, the US AverTV HD DVR appears to be the same hardware that is sold as the PCI-E version of the DarkCrystal HD Capture Pro elsewhere, although the software provided may be different.

For the most part, there has to be a tuner in order to to use Windows Media Center. There are a few tunerless capture devices for which a third-party software plugin is available that tricks Windows Media Center into accepting the device, but the AverTV HD DVR/DarkCrystal HD Capture Pro is not one of them.

I have been using Windows 7's Media Center for a year now and I like it very much. It may or may not be a good option for you. Much will depend on the program guide data that is available in India. Media Center also uses a its own container file format (.wtv or .dvr-ms), instead of .ts or .mpg like other PVR software. Based on the product description provided at AVerMedia's global website I think the AVerTV Capture HD's analog capture options will be limited to MPEG-2 when using Windows Media Center. However, it is hard to say what third-party PVR software will work with the AverTV Capture HD, if you don't like AVerMedia's software or Media Center.