miniDV tapes to DVD

[zoranb]

I have a number of miniDV tapes that i want to turn them into DVDs with menus etc. In the DVD that i will be authored i want to keep the maximum video quality the miniDV tapes have because the dvds will be displayed in HDtvs. What are my steps here?

[rumplestiltskin]

Assuming your mini-DV tapes contain standard definition footage, that's going to be the limiting factor in the perceived quality. As well, DVDs are standard definition, not hi-def. I can't guide you on which software you'll need for the authoring (as I use a Mac) but, depending on the software, they might show two different compression levels for "one hour" or "two hour" DVDs. If you do see this choice, obviously choose the "one hour" setting. That will minimize any visual artifacts in fast-motion scenes—although if you panned too fast when you shot your DV, the artifacts might be introduced there and no amount of "spiffing up" (by choosing a shorter length DVD) will help.

Others will chime in with their PC authoring software choices. Good luck!

[zoranb]

HI!!! first of all. i have a mac too and im a mac fan

secondly. the footage is from older vhs tapes that ive tranfered them to dv tapes so its its not such a big issue with quality if dvds are SD quality

thirdly. i will be placing the footage in some video editing software (prolly not iMovie11) in order to place titles and sound so my question is how will i calculate the size of the produced video files that will be placed in the dvd authoring app?

[rumplestiltskin]

Your personal info shows this:
Computer DetailsWinXP SP1
1GHz Athlon Tbird
80GB 30GB
512 MB
Hercules 8500LE 128MB
Hitachi
Ricoh
MSI K7Tpro2A
USB2 FIrewire combo PCI card

...so you need to update all that.

Use iMovie '06 (iMovieHD v6.0.3) as that is the app that will deal, natively, with the DV-stream coming from the camcorder (and I assume your camcorder will connect via FireWire as that is what iMovieHD expects). Add your titles, extra audio tracks, whatever...into the timeline and then send it right over to iDVD where you'll do the authoring, menus, etc.

Just keep your movie at about 58 minutes and iDVD will give you a choice of the quality in the "project info" (if I remember correctly). Select the best quality and that will provide a 1 hour single-layer DVD but will take a bit longer to render before it's ready to burn the disc. Save the project to a disc image and then burn that disc image to a DVD using Disk Utility. Test the DVD in a number of DVD players to verify that's it's okay. BTW: If your menus you select are complex, that will take up some extra "time" on the DVD so that's why I used that "58 minutes" instead of 60.

If you don't have iMovieHD, it was a free download from Apple as long as you had a later version of iMovie on your Mac. If you can't find the download link, PM me.

[zoranb]

i have iMovie11 is it okay to use it?

[rumplestiltskin]

If you like it. Personally, I prefer the simple timeline-based method in iMovieHD and find I can get things done much faster and with more precision. However, I've heard Apple may have implemented more of the timeline metaphor in iMovie'11 (which was a complaint about earlier versions) so you'll have to be the judge about whether '11 is working well for you. The offer about iMovieHD still stands; if you need it, let me know.

[zoranb]

Im also familiar with AdobePremiere, would you advise me to use it for this task?
As far as capturing is concerned, i must say that Premiere's capture method is rather better because you can set "in" and "out" times of different footage in the whole tape, so after setting the times and names you just let the whole tape to be captured and at the end all named captured footage is placed in the folder of your liking! I think this cant be done in iMovie11, am i right?

[rumplestiltskin]

Im also familiar with AdobePremiere, would you advise me to use it for this task?
As far as capturing is concerned, i must say that Premiere's capture method is rather better because you can set "in" and "out" times of different footage in the whole tape, so after setting the times and names you just let the whole tape to be captured and at the end all named captured footage is placed in the folder of your liking! I think this cant be done in iMovie11, am i right?

I believe you are correct about the I/O points although FCP does use this method.

If you're comfortable with Premiere, then use it; it will make no difference in quality as long as Premiere lets you create a reference movie for iDVD ingestion -or- will export the finished product in the same quality as it imported the original footage. I am not a Premiere expert.

[Herve]

i have iMovie11 is it okay to use it?

no (new iMovie handles HD stream but Apple abandonned old video format as DV stream, aka interlaced Standard Definition). So it's a better idea to use the old version (or Premiere or FinalCut, …)

PS: my home DVD recorder (an old and very cheap one) has a DV link:
- I connect the DV camcorder
- I ask for quality 1 hour per DVD (so one DVD per DV tape)
- I click on the remode "record"
- I obtain a very good quality DVD, and in real Time !!!
that's my favorite way to do

bye

[zoranb]

but i did make a capture from my mini dv camcorder using iMovie11, what do you mean?

[Herve]

but i did make a capture from my mini dv camcorder using iMovie11

I don't know iMovie'11 (I only have iMovie"08 & "09, and now I use FCE)

what do you mean?

capture from iMovie is OK, but its export damage quality
with recent versions ('08 & '09) you cannot export -preserving quality- from iMovie. You have to manuelly take files from your folder "iMovie events" to reuse them withoput quality lose.
I don't know with iMovie'11. Try yourself, if you can export your editing to DV file, and still see these "ugly horizontal lines on computer", it means that iMovie'11 preserved your input informations. And if not… so iMovie suppress half of the informations of your source files

bye

[rumplestiltskin]

Herve is saying that iMovie11 may automatically deinterlace your media which, if you're going back out to DVD, you don't need nor want to have happen. That why I'll suggest iMovieHD ('06) again because it was specifically designed to be used with DV-stream coming from a camcorder via FireWire. The choice is yours.

[zoranb]

so let me get this straight. the difference between the two iMovies is that in the earlier version (11), when it makes capture it deinterlaces the video by default, while in the older versions the captured video is interlaced.
What i dont really understand is what would be the problem to use a deinterlaced video, is it less quality?

[rumplestiltskin]

so let me get this straight. the difference between the two iMovies is that in the earlier version (11), when it makes capture it deinterlaces the video by default, while in the older versions the captured video is interlaced.
What i dont really understand is what would be the problem to use a deinterlaced video, is it less quality?

As you're intended to bring the whole thing to DVDs (which play interlaced material) you might as well keep all the quality of the original, interlaced, footage. If you deinterlace when you bring in the footage and then go back out to DVD, the missing "interlacing" will be filled in with duplicates of existing scan lines; this may yield a "jerky" effect. So the older version of iMovie (iMovie'06, iMovieHD, iMovie v6.0.3 - all the same thing) captures the footage and retains the interlacing which the DVD format requires and retains (or recreates poorly).

[zoranb]

so let me get this straight. the difference between the two iMovies is that in the earlier version (11), when it makes capture it deinterlaces the video by default, while in the older versions the captured video is interlaced.
What i dont really understand is what would be the problem to use a deinterlaced video, is it less quality?

As you're intended to bring the whole thing to DVDs (which play interlaced material) you might as well keep all the quality of the original, interlaced, footage. If you deinterlace when you bring in the footage and then go back out to DVD, the missing "interlacing" will be filled in with duplicates of existing scan lines; this may yield a "jerky" effect. So the older version of iMovie (iMovie'06, iMovieHD, iMovie v6.0.3 - all the same thing) captures the footage and retains the interlacing which the DVD format requires and retains (or recreates poorly).

Im sorry but my poor english doesnt really help in understanding perfectly what you are describing here. Of course firslt of all i dont really understand what really are interlaced and deinterlaced videos are. If its possible to make a more refined description of the above i would be greatly obliged

[rumplestiltskin]

Okay. When your camcorder captures a video frame, it's scanning every other line and then comes back to scan the other half it missed the first time. The resulting frame is interlaced. If you permit the software to toss every other scan, you've lost half of your video and quality will suffer.

Newer camcorders shooting AVCHD can actually record progressive which is when the entire frame is scanned in one pass. You do not have such a camcorder so forget this. Your camcorder shoots DV-Stream which is interlaced.

So, if you want the best quality from the standard def footage you have, you'll use whatever codec available in Premiere that captures the stream from the camcorder and doesn't de-interlace it (or use iMovieHD if you want it).

[Herve]

and another explanation (from a non-native english ) with an example:

your DV file size is 720*480 pixels
the resulting DVD-VIDEO file size will be 720*480px
so your DV size is already compatible with DVD-VIDEO needs

if you deinterlace: you ask to suppress half of the original horizontal informations (=480/2 => 240px) and ask to rescale the remaining informations to fit screen
You file was described in 720*480px, now you only kept 720*240px
So, avoid to deinterlace DV

bye

[zoranb]

so capturing in iMovie11 makes deinterlace, while capturing in older iMovie apps or Premiere doesnt deinterlace, am i correct?

but if so, why did they do this in iMovie11? What does it help for since it looses quality?

[Herve]

so capturing in iMovie11 makes deinterlace

not capture but export (and you have to export from iMovie to access to your editins)
Old iMovie versions have a "save" function (and the save is safe )

à+

[zoranb]

Im not certain the way it handles captured clips but i think it doesn't need to save them, it just directly puts them in the project library

About the export, i cant find it on the menu, but from the little i know why would the export be an issue, id suppose that it lets you export the clip to any quality you like, no? Unless thats what exactly you guys are saying to me (and im too stupid to understand) that it compresses exported files so much that it makes them to loose quality.

[rumplestiltskin]

Compression has nothing to do with this. Deinterlacing throws away half the information in the frame; don't do this.

Use iMovieHD and get a DVD that maximizes the quality of the DV-stream you want to import from your camcorder. Use something else and end up with...something else...

I'm done here. If you want iMovieHD, PM me.

[zoranb]

What is the use of deinterlacing then? When is it usefull to use it?

[curt00]

rumplestiltskin or Herve:

I'm reading that miniDV has the same resolution (720 x 480) as DVD. I find that surprising because I always thought that the miniDV videos looked better than DVD.

I have old miniDV tapes from 8-11 years ago, that I like to upload to and archive on my new Mac. I want to preserve the highest quality possible and I have no need for DVDs. I have iMovie 11. Will iMovie 11 lose quality when it exports it? What about the Share > Export using QuickTime > Movie to DV Stream option? Will that preserve the quality, or do I still need to use iMovie 6 or iMovie HD?

[Herve]

I'm reading that miniDV has the same resolution (720 x 480) as DVD. I find that surprising because I always thought that the miniDV videos looked better than DVD.

same sizes, same color range (in PAL, but less good -personal choice- for DV NTSC)
usually differences only come from the encoder

PS: there is only a few limitations with DVD-VIDEO video format: if you make a "travelling on a tree" (= a lot of information on each frame =sheets details), you will lose quality when converting to DVD format (this format handles less infos per second than DV format)
But usually, you will not notice differences if the encoding is correct

I have old miniDV tapes from 8-11 years ago, that I like to upload to and archive on my new Mac. I want to preserve the highest quality possible and I have no need for DVDs. I have iMovie 11. Will iMovie 11 lose quality when it exports it?

yes (depending of what I readed)

What about the Share > Export using QuickTime] > Movie to DV Stream option?

don't know with iMovie"11 (I only have '08 and '09)
With these previous versions, quality was reduced

or do I still need to use iMovie 6 or iMovie HD?

better (safer) choice

(once again) I'm very happy with my cheap DVD home recorder:
encode at real time (capture time=encoding time),
good quality (1 hour per DVD±RW)
easy for archiving: one tape = one DVD

bye

[curt00]

Hi Herve:

How do I get iMovie 6? If I install iMovie6, will it screw up or interfere with my iMovie 11 installation? (I'm new to Mac)

[rumplestiltskin]

Hi Herve:

How do I get iMovie 6? If I install iMovie6, will it screw up or interfere with my iMovie 11 installation? (I'm new to Mac)

You PM me with your eMail address. No, it will peacefully co-exist with your newer iMovie.

[curt00]

Herve and rumplestiltskin:

I just imported a clip from my miniDV tape with iMovie 6 and iMovie 11. Here are the file sizes:
iMovie 6: 467.6 MB
iMovie 11: 465.6 MB

They are very close in size. Doesn't this show that iMovie 11 maintains the miniDV quality?

The advantage of the iMovie 11 file is that the date and time of recording is put into the name of the files:

clip-2009-12-31 21;18;02.dv

Here's the name of the iMovie 6 file:
Clip 01.dv

[zoranb]

Herve and rumplestiltskin:

I just imported a clip from my miniDV tape with iMovie 6 and iMovie 11. Here are the file sizes:
iMovie 6: 467.6 MB
iMovie 11: 465.6 MB

They are very close in size. Doesn't this show that iMovie 11 maintains the miniDV quality?

wow thats very interesting, cant wait to hear what they have to say

[rumplestiltskin]

Unfortunately, size is not always a determinant. If you export a short clip from both versions as DV-Stream and then compare the same frames (frame-by-frame) from both in QuickTime Player, you should be able to tell.

[zoranb]

But why would Apple make sutch a move? to release a newer version of iMovie knowing that its less capable in providing high quality captures than its predecessors? Is this move helpfull in any way? What?