HDCP strippers

[Casio1987]

I think Moome already had an that on the market for awhile though, it was called the Moome Mux-HD HDMI repeater. It did up to 1080p with 5.1 or 7.1 bitstream if I recall, but 2 channel LPCM, it also removed the hdcp. Unless its a new version those should be the specs.

Edit: Moome is making a new model called the MUX-FHD that passes audio through HDMI out.

So it is a new version, i'll keep an eye out for it and see what the new specs are.

Yes, I've read about it. But this card is not available anywhere anymore. All listenings on any distributor site have been taken off, because rumors go around that Moome received some DMCA notices.
I've also read about the MUX-FHD, but the last available resource was also one year old and meanwhile he made new products, without hdcp circumvention / stripping. I guess he will never sell the MUX-(F)HD (anymore)

I'm still wondering though what the output resolution was for the second image you posted in post #77 and with what card you captured it. Could you please share your feedback?

[Casio1987]

Hmm, I can't find any affordable full hd 3d capture solution other than using 3dfury in combination with any hdmi 1.3 720p/60 capture card under $600,- totalprice as of until this date... And this will cap 3d 720p footage at 30fps when reconstructing a framepacked video.

It seems I'm going this route soon when I buy a new ps3.

I would love to hear alternatives that are cheaper (keep in mind: hdmi, 3d, capturing and hdcp).

[Brad]

Hmm, I quote what I literally hear from him:
14:10 "But the only thing, the restriction is stopping us from putting in hdmi ports on there was simply the hdcp license issue"
14:35 "and also is very [...?] for the licensee as well"

That's why I said it might implicitly hint to not gain the license for hdcp. As the guy in the video also said that the units are capable for hdmi, but that hdcp is an issue.

Well, we agree that HDCP is an issue, but you were saying that there was a hint they were punished for the cards they released in late 2009.

This is what I hear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGmWrP-JH60&t=13m45s
"... but the only thing, or the restriction, stopping us from putting HDMI ports on there was simply the DHCP [sic], the content protection. For digital image license issue. So, you know, as a game image capture device, I mean if you engage -- if we engage with every party in the, for the licensing and the legal rights for the capture the digital contents, I mean we're talking about the way too pricey, on the product itself. And also it's very hard to do the maintaining for the [licensing?/licensee?], as well."

We already see it with the new PS3 models (>= K-model) which prevents hd output via analog. This device becomes useless for hd capturing.

This is FUD. The new models only downscale Blu-ray playback over analog, not gaming. No one advertises their device as being useful for capturing BDs.

“The new CECH-3000 series PS3 requires HDMI only for BD movie output in HD, in compliance with AACS standards. PS3 continues to support component output for HD gaming and streaming content.”

As for the C729 and C199X, they were here before this analog standalone capture device, but still carry the "new" tag in their list. There are referrers to the C729 a year ago on the internet, stating "new".

The C199X press release was in August of this year, and the Game Capture HD press release was in September. They were probably designed concurrently, so I don't see any reason to assume this is comeuppance for their "bug".

[rcubed]

@Seraphic-
XBOX 360 doesn't output hdcp'ed video

@rcubed
I'm looking forwad for the hd mux. Are there any specs revealed yet? Hopefully it comes for an affordable price.

I'm sure people from Intel or any stakeholders in hdcp are watching this thread with suspicion. Let me say this to you: I've no intention for any copyright infriction or pirating anything. I only want to capture my work (Linux software engineering) and capture gameplay footage with authorization and without, for private viewing. Those respect the Dutch laws.

Casio,
So far I haven't heard what the price will be. A long while back Moome indicated it will be about the same as the previous HDMI-Mux that has been discontinued. There will be at least Stereo out. Not sure about 5.1 etc.

Cheers,

rcubed

[jagabo]

Here's an HDCP stripper using an FPGA:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=23373

The Atlys development board includes everything you need except the software for programming the FPGA.

http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,836&Prod=ATLYS

Of course, the design could be simplified and made much cheaper if limited to HDCP stripping.

[TheFreeman]

Hey folks,

I've just registered to this forum to give my point of view regarding the topic's title matter.

Essentially, an HDCP stripper seems to be nothing more than a chip that decodes the HDMI input and re-encodes it without the HDCP bits. However, it would technically have to be HDCP-compliant or else it wouldn't even work... $300 is a very reasonable price for this thing.

Is there an HDMI-to-HDMI HDCP stripper out there? That would be awesome, and not *too* involved to make.

EDIT: duh, that'd be the mux-HD.

No, it's not reasonable priced. Just like jagabo said, it's using a cheap chip and circuit board, an enclosure and a ps.

Now I'm amazed that still no one have mentioned the product "AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR", which is for sale at a relatively cheap price.
It's basically a pci card with a hdmi input and -output. It can display hdcp content, but not record it.

This makes me believe that when hdcp keys gets revoked, we can still flash the firmware using the master key and we are good to go. The only problem in this scenario is, is that the rom needs to be flashed (because I doubt the key is located on pc, rather than persistent on the card itself).
As for the recording, we can reverse engineer the software's code.
This card is basically the stripper.

It only takes time until a skilled dissembler is stepping up, when keys get revoked.

What I want to say is that a solution exists for a respectable price and that the end of hdcp is coming to an end.
I've read the responses from the HDFury staff at their website, where the link to it is reffered in this topic, where a mod repeatly said that revoking hdcp keys will never happen. You and I know this is not true and it's funny how he's trying to keep the sheeps calm. Revoking keys might happen, as this is one of the last things that can be done to keep hdcp in business for a longer time, before it eventually will fade away.

Im looking forward for your feedback and ideas regarding this matter.

You are the only one to believe it's not true.
For your information, HDCP is not cracked since 2010 it's cracked since 2001 !!
The revocation is not possible on multiple different keys, it's only possible on ONE hacked keys (or several unique hacked keys)
the whole revokation process was added lately in 2003 after researcher showed that producing a valid HDCP key isn't difficult.
So they added the revokation process in case someone would sell stripper using cracked keys.

Now back to HDfury, they have multiple products using multiple different HDMI Rx IC, no one even knows which brand name/model is it, so go figure their HDCP keys out of nowhere. it's strictly impossible. that's why Sky HD ,started to refuse displaying anything based on EDID name, cause they can't do anything with legit HDCP keys when they don't know which batch is in use.
Solution to sky HD is as simple as reflash your EDID with another EDID file but different name.

Also, you mention us as sheeps, i'm not the sheep of anyone, without HDfury i would be stuck and i would have lost a lot of money on my pioneer kudos plasma. I have already ordered the newer HDfury4 that does everything i could ever dream about (just triple frame 1080/24 > 1080/72 is useless for me, since my kudos already have that feature embedded).

You are also stating that "it's not cheap" because it use an IC, a circuit board, enclose ps or whatever bollocks you are writing.
I think you should open your eyes and look at the specs and the PCB pictures cause you seem technical, you can't ignore that.

First of all, solution with an IC, circuit board, enclosure, PS already exist, it's named HDfury1 and it's available for something like 50euro or 75usd. And even on that one you have much more than just a "cheap IC"

Now, if the IC are cheap, why don't you buy them yourself and build your HDCP stripper ?
Because they aren't cheap and if you are not HDCP license/adopter you will have hard time finding them at reasonnable price.

You also need an output driver, you need eprom to store EDID and then comes the additional feature, you need a DAC for component output, you need Audio IC for Analog/Optical out, you need several eprom for later version such as HDfury3 which is the one i got now who offer 8 EDID banks available it also have a CPLD and FPGA to shift picture left/right, etc...
On the latest one, you can count at least 7 big ICs !

Last but not least, i would never hesitate to buy any products from them, not only because they are clearly superior to any other, but especially because they are the only one still standing up and fighting this piece of crap that HDCP is. For that, they deserve mine and your respect.

Ps: sorry for my bad english, i'm german !

[Casio1987]

Hey folks,

I've just registered to this forum to give my point of view regarding the topic's title matter.

Essentially, an HDCP stripper seems to be nothing more than a chip that decodes the HDMI input and re-encodes it without the HDCP bits. However, it would technically have to be HDCP-compliant or else it wouldn't even work... $300 is a very reasonable price for this thing.

Is there an HDMI-to-HDMI HDCP stripper out there? That would be awesome, and not *too* involved to make.

EDIT: duh, that'd be the mux-HD.

No, it's not reasonable priced. Just like jagabo said, it's using a cheap chip and circuit board, an enclosure and a ps.

Now I'm amazed that still no one have mentioned the product "AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR", which is for sale at a relatively cheap price.
It's basically a pci card with a hdmi input and -output. It can display hdcp content, but not record it.

This makes me believe that when hdcp keys gets revoked, we can still flash the firmware using the master key and we are good to go. The only problem in this scenario is, is that the rom needs to be flashed (because I doubt the key is located on pc, rather than persistent on the card itself).
As for the recording, we can reverse engineer the software's code.
This card is basically the stripper.

It only takes time until a skilled dissembler is stepping up, when keys get revoked.

What I want to say is that a solution exists for a respectable price and that the end of hdcp is coming to an end.
I've read the responses from the HDFury staff at their website, where the link to it is reffered in this topic, where a mod repeatly said that revoking hdcp keys will never happen. You and I know this is not true and it's funny how he's trying to keep the sheeps calm. Revoking keys might happen, as this is one of the last things that can be done to keep hdcp in business for a longer time, before it eventually will fade away.

Im looking forward for your feedback and ideas regarding this matter.

You are the only one to believe it's not true.
For your information, HDCP is not cracked since 2010 it's cracked since 2001 !!
The revocation is not possible on multiple different keys, it's only possible on ONE hacked keys (or several unique hacked keys)
the whole revokation process was added lately in 2003 after researcher showed that producing a valid HDCP key isn't difficult.
So they added the revokation process in case someone would sell stripper using cracked keys.

Now back to HDfury, they have multiple products using multiple different HDMI Rx IC, no one even knows which brand name/model is it, so go figure their HDCP keys out of nowhere. it's strictly impossible. that's why Sky HD ,started to refuse displaying anything based on EDID name, cause they can't do anything with legit HDCP keys when they don't know which batch is in use.
Solution to sky HD is as simple as reflash your EDID with another EDID file but different name.

Also, you mention us as sheeps, i'm not the sheep of anyone, without HDfury i would be stuck and i would have lost a lot of money on my pioneer kudos plasma. I have already ordered the newer HDfury4 that does everything i could ever dream about (just triple frame 1080/24 > 1080/72 is useless for me, since my kudos already have that feature embedded).

You are also stating that "it's not cheap" because it use an IC, a circuit board, enclose ps or whatever bollocks you are writing.
I think you should open your eyes and look at the specs and the PCB pictures cause you seem technical, you can't ignore that.

First of all, solution with an IC, circuit board, enclosure, PS already exist, it's named HDfury1 and it's available for something like 50euro or 75usd. And even on that one you have much more than just a "cheap IC"

Now, if the IC are cheap, why don't you buy them yourself and build your HDCP stripper ?
Because they aren't cheap and if you are not HDCP license/adopter you will have hard time finding them at reasonnable price.

You also need an output driver, you need eprom to store EDID and then comes the additional feature, you need a DAC for component output, you need Audio IC for Analog/Optical out, you need several eprom for later version such as HDfury3 which is the one i got now who offer 8 EDID banks available it also have a CPLD and FPGA to shift picture left/right, etc...
On the latest one, you can count at least 7 big ICs !

Last but not least, i would never hesitate to buy any products from them, not only because they are clearly superior to any other, but especially because they are the only one still standing up and fighting this piece of crap that HDCP is. For that, they deserve mine and your respect.

Ps: sorry for my bad english, i'm german !

You are full of crap! I'm not even going to discuss anything in detail with what you have written. 1) Learn to read; 2) From sentence one to last is full of bs; 3) Don't be offended when I say I think HDFury products are overpriced. You just registered to defend the HDFury. How much did they pay you? It's so expensive, because they can sell it that way (ever heard of supply and demand and value adhesion). Ever heard of splitters using hdmi and hdcp being sold under $20,-? Ever noticed the price for getting a license for each device (hdmi and hdcp)? @jagabo: Thanks for the headsup of the newsitem. Very interesting. If devboards come cheap, I will buy one. Maybe I'm eligible for a student license

[Casio1987]

Hmm, all paragraphs in the last reply are trimmed and I can't edit it (webpage is also loading slow at the moment, but whatever. Not too many text to read in the last reply)...

[TheFreeman]

You are full of crap! I'm not even going to discuss anything in detail with what you have written. 1) Learn to read; 2) From sentence one to last is full of bs; 3) Don't be offended when I say I think HDFury products are overpriced. You just registered to defend the HDFury. How much did they pay you? It's so expensive, because they can sell it that way (ever heard of supply and demand and value adhesion). Ever heard of splitters using hdmi and hdcp being sold under $20,-? Ever noticed the price for getting a license for each device (hdmi and hdcp)? @jagabo: Thanks for the headsup of the newsitem. Very interesting. If devboards come cheap, I will buy one. Maybe I'm eligible for a student license

Come on, i was polite

You claim from sentence 1 to last its full of BS.
Ok, so my sentence 1 was that HDCP was cracked since 2001 and not 2010, go check yourself:
http://www.macfergus.com/niels/dmca/cia.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Ferguson
http://www.ipvs.uni-stuttgart.de/abteilungen/vs/abteilung/mitarbeiter/arno.wacker/eige..._with_HDCP.pdf

Now what ? ...

You claim i have registered to defend HDfury.
First i don't think that they need to be defended given the facts that they are here since many years and also that they have no competition.
But especially No and no Sir, i was on google looking for latest bunnie work and i came accross this site because someone posted the following link in that thread: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=23373 with FPGA and HDCP in the post. That's why i landed here.
For your information, Bunnie have released an attack using the HDCP master key but without involving any DMCA lawsuit
He will present this at the 28c3 in Berlin this year : http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/Fahrplan/events/4686.en.html

Then finally you wrote a serie of no-sense question because they don't apply there.

1 by 1:

Splitters for 20usd ? yes and ? First of all, they are not doing the same work, Second HDfury also offered a 1 input, 3 input HDMI switch for 49 usd including shipping and that was 4 years ago, neither HDfury or Moome are industrials (low volume=higher cost) and HDfury1 which is the most basic design is sold for 75usd so what's the problem here ?
The thing you don't undertand is that adding features means more electronics, more powerful, the video that pushed me here is talking about 300usd FPGA, clearly that is a lie, but cost of FPGA that can work over 170mhz is MUCH more than your 20 usd splitter and that is just 1 ic ! you still have to add the cost of HDMI Rx, CPLD, MCU, EPROM, DAC, etc..

The price for getting a license ? the annual fee for HDMI.org is 10k usd + approx 1usd per HDMI connector.
The annual fee for HDCP.org is 15k usd + approx 1usd per HDMI connector.
Still ,what's the point of that question ?

[jagabo]

Thanks for the headsup of the newsitem. Very interesting. If devboards come cheap, I will buy one. Maybe I'm eligible for a student license

They sell for about $200 to academic users. Don't forget you'll need an FPGA programmer too. That's what? A few thousand dollars now? At least a few hundred to rent one for a month. Then you'll need to work out the programming. And finally you'll need several FPGA chips at $50 each. It will take you a number of iterations to get the programming right. It would be a nice open source project. Obviously, it would have to be hosted outside the USA.

FPGAs are great for one off designs or for prototyping. Once you have a working prototype you have a custom board or chip manufactured.

[pandy]

They sell for about $200 to academic users.

350$ for normal - not educational use

Don't forget you'll need an FPGA programmer too.

Not very expensive - typical JTAG is sufficient in many cases.

That's what? A few thousand dollars now? At least a few hundred to rent one for a month. Then you'll need to work out the programming. And finally you'll need several FPGA chips at $50 each. It will take you a number of iterations to get the programming right. It would be a nice open source project. Obviously, it would have to be hosted outside the USA.

FPGAs are great for one off designs or for prototyping. Once you have a working prototype you have a custom board or chip manufactured.

They are also good if HW need to be reprogrammable.

HDCP was never good protection - older TV have usually exposed pads for video data from HDMI receiver anyway - it is cheaper to buy older LCD/PDP board and rip such signal from this bus, also key are likely to be not blacklisted (hard to imagine that someone will blacklist on BD keys for 50000 Sony or Panasonic TV's).

Also most of typical HDMI capture cards is able to support HDCP (they are based on NORMAL, customer HDMI receivers - e.g. BlackMagic Intensity is based on Analog Devices HDMI Receiver and Transmiter plus FPGA and PCIex bridge - with proper software they will support HDCP on HDMI for sure). All You need is REI how FPGA is configured and make own FPGA configuration + start HDCP on AD receiver.

[TheFreeman]

They sell for about $200 to academic users.

350$ for normal - not educational use

Don't forget you'll need an FPGA programmer too.

Not very expensive - typical JTAG is sufficient in many cases.

That's what? A few thousand dollars now? At least a few hundred to rent one for a month. Then you'll need to work out the programming. And finally you'll need several FPGA chips at $50 each. It will take you a number of iterations to get the programming right. It would be a nice open source project. Obviously, it would have to be hosted outside the USA.

FPGAs are great for one off designs or for prototyping. Once you have a working prototype you have a custom board or chip manufactured.

They are also good if HW need to be reprogrammable.

HDCP was never good protection - older TV have usually exposed pads for video data from HDMI receiver anyway - it is cheaper to buy older LCD/PDP board and rip such signal from this bus, also key are likely to be not blacklisted (hard to imagine that someone will blacklist on BD keys for 50000 Sony or Panasonic TV's).

Also most of typical HDMI capture cards is able to support HDCP (they are based on NORMAL, customer HDMI receivers - e.g. BlackMagic Intensity is based on Analog Devices HDMI Receiver and Transmiter plus FPGA and PCIex bridge - with proper software they will support HDCP on HDMI for sure). All You need is REI how FPGA is configured and make own FPGA configuration + start HDCP on AD receiver.

Cool ! Someone with a mind

What you wrote is exactly what i mentionned, this is the KEY: "hard to imagine that someone will blacklist on BD keys for 50000 Sony or Panasonic TV's"

That's it, Key revokation is not possible on HDfury because no one knows which keys are in use, they are differents IC, from different vendor, from different batch, trying to revoke them as a "lot", will end up with big brand names display not working anymore. This will never happen. People are mentionning this since 2007 when the first HDfury came out, nearly 5 years later, people are still enjoying the HT show through HDfury.

Once again, the key revokation IS NOT and WAS NEVER intended for such use, it only applies to revoke a hacked keys (understand ONE UNIQUE KEY). HDfury use legit keys and each keys is unique coming from same IC batch than those used in high end display.

[pandy]

So i think this one must be clearly written - Digital Content Protection LLC organization is interested only to SELL large amount of the HDCP keys - usual volume for HDCP keys is at least 10000 keys - also license are very strict and limited thus none, even very serious companies are not interested in making product with HDMI/HDCP for niche market - this is true even for professional part of industry - if product allowed to record and store video then license is even more demanding to meet - at this point no one even try to make any product w HDCP - all law and logistic plus doubts on HDCP create this standard quite secure not due technical superiority but due obscurity.

[Casio1987]

You are full of crap! I'm not even going to discuss anything in detail with what you have written. 1) Learn to read; 2) From sentence one to last is full of bs; 3) Don't be offended when I say I think HDFury products are overpriced. You just registered to defend the HDFury. How much did they pay you? It's so expensive, because they can sell it that way (ever heard of supply and demand and value adhesion). Ever heard of splitters using hdmi and hdcp being sold under $20,-? Ever noticed the price for getting a license for each device (hdmi and hdcp)? @jagabo: Thanks for the headsup of the newsitem. Very interesting. If devboards come cheap, I will buy one. Maybe I'm eligible for a student license

Come on, i was polite

You claim from sentence 1 to last its full of BS.
Ok, so my sentence 1 was that HDCP was cracked since 2001 and not 2010, go check yourself:
http://www.macfergus.com/niels/dmca/cia.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Ferguson
http://www.ipvs.uni-stuttgart.de/abteilungen/vs/abteilung/mitarbeiter/arno.wacker/eige..._with_HDCP.pdf

Now what ? ...

You claim i have registered to defend HDfury.
First i don't think that they need to be defended given the facts that they are here since many years and also that they have no competition.
But especially No and no Sir, i was on google looking for latest bunnie work and i came accross this site because someone posted the following link in that thread: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=23373 with FPGA and HDCP in the post. That's why i landed here.
For your information, Bunnie have released an attack using the HDCP master key but without involving any DMCA lawsuit
He will present this at the 28c3 in Berlin this year : http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/Fahrplan/events/4686.en.html

Then finally you wrote a serie of no-sense question because they don't apply there.

1 by 1:

Splitters for 20usd ? yes and ? First of all, they are not doing the same work, Second HDfury also offered a 1 input, 3 input HDMI switch for 49 usd including shipping and that was 4 years ago, neither HDfury or Moome are industrials (low volume=higher cost) and HDfury1 which is the most basic design is sold for 75usd so what's the problem here ?
The thing you don't undertand is that adding features means more electronics, more powerful, the video that pushed me here is talking about 300usd FPGA, clearly that is a lie, but cost of FPGA that can work over 170mhz is MUCH more than your 20 usd splitter and that is just 1 ic ! you still have to add the cost of HDMI Rx, CPLD, MCU, EPROM, DAC, etc..

The price for getting a license ? the annual fee for HDMI.org is 10k usd + approx 1usd per HDMI connector.
The annual fee for HDCP.org is 15k usd + approx 1usd per HDMI connector.
Still ,what's the point of that question ?

Look, if you want to be a moron, fine with me. But don't come here spreading idiotic lies and contradictions.

If you can't even see the contextual difference and the point of my reply, why even bother with such nonsense in the first place.

Because you are lacking some memory, I will refresh it: You were talking about the justification of costs involved in the HDFury. That's why you attacked me and basically signed up here to output your emotions. That's where almost your whole reply is referring too...
And now, you are even justifying the new price of the oldest fury, which had a huge initial pricetag, but you must forgot that and I'm here to refresh that gray memory.

And as I and others have said before, the costs you can find back in this thread or put up a simple query in google. It's even in the faq of hdcp and it's not even close to a 1$... If you can't research, don't put up bollocks. The annual fees are not for everyone, reading must be hard.

Second, we all (all the readers in this thread) knew that HDCP was cracked before 2010, but the source was never revealed to the public, so it's kind of useless for the average interested person. The hdcp is cracked / bypassed by various techniques, not only with the key / software.
Now I'm amazed why you are telling this what we all know in your first post and defended it towards my generic reply, which sould have be interpreted differently.

Third, if you read in this thread, I and so many others (literally over ten thousands of hits on Google) have / had devices which can NOT display ANY hdcp content anymore, suddenly after a date, which was around the time a new bypass for hdcp was published around the net.
So your argument is NOT valid in any kind saying that only hacked keys can be revoked.
I qoute you:

Once again, the key revokation IS NOT and WAS NEVER intended for such use, it only applies to revoke a hacked keys (understand ONE UNIQUE KEY). HDfury use legit keys and each keys is unique coming from same IC batch than those used in high end display.

Now this is just a assumption that my and so many others' keys have been revoked as no one ever did a valid research on the device (read hdcp key rom), but why it's even more strange that all those devices got replaced for free, while initially they should have payed... Now if you can think for yourself and even better if you can philosophize even for a bit, this sounds fishy and if you had read my post, you know why.

Fourth, no competition, are you actually serious? I buy rather 6 Avermedia capture cards than 1 hdfury for the same hdcp bypassing functionality. There are many many other variants possible on the market today, that can do A LOT of a cheaper job than even the oldest hdfury can do... It can even do digital instead of analog output conversion.

I'm not feeling even in the mood to reply anthing in the future coming from you. I leave it to others or misinformation will be indexed for ever for newcomers.
We all make mistakes, but don't be stubborn and learn from it. One who can not learn, can not speak and can not be taken seriously at any given point. I also made a mistake by telling from a outdated source before in this thread, but I don't defend it like it's the truth, because I reresearched and saw the difference.

[TheFreeman]

Avermedia ? lol what else ?

Haha, insanity at its best, let me refresh YOUR memory.

You came here with the following introduction:

I've just registered to this forum to give my point of view.
No, it's not
reasonable priced. it's using a cheap chip and circuit board, an enclosure
and a ps.
Now I'm amazed that still no one have mentioned the product
"AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR", which is for sale at a relatively cheap
price.

You are amazed because no one mentionned your avermedia thingy!

First of all people are buying massively Hauppauge HD PVR, colossus or Black Magic intensity pro etc, they never had to wait for avermedia thingy that's why you can be amazed your whole life long. (however the product announced the 28 nov but not yet available looks better, but still no one used it yet) hauppage and black magic have proven success in this field.

Finally, you can compare HDfury to any capture card you want, except if you are stupid, it will never make any sense.
HDfury is made to connect SOURCE to DISPLAY it's dedicated to big3 tubes, CRT and analog screen, That's why it have so many advanced features that you can't understand or take in consideration. Such as triple frame which you can only find on 1000$+ radiance product, i guess you should read more from AVSforum.

I'm sure you are the one who read that this or that converter "works good" or "looks nice" because the picture isn't actually awfull on a 21 inch display. However, bring those converters on Barco Cine 9 or something decent, and get ready for the worst horrible show ever ! That's one of the several key point that you are missing, producing crap is actually very easy and very cheap, and you can get crap at every corner.
However, when you can produce an ultimate picture quality on 3Tubes projectors with several meters base the quality only get better when you go to a smaller screen, the opposite isn't true.

That's why the HT specialists and system integrators will tell you that this or that converter is crap and the average joe will tell you it works nice for his display.

Until you come here with test pattern to make serious claim, stop being a troll, you know nothing about picture quality.

[Casio1987]

Avermedia ? lol what else ?

Haha, insanity at its best, let me refresh YOUR memory.

You came here with the following introduction:

I've just registered to this forum to give my point of view.
No, it's not
reasonable priced. it's using a cheap chip and circuit board, an enclosure
and a ps.
Now I'm amazed that still no one have mentioned the product
"AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR", which is for sale at a relatively cheap
price.

You are amazed because no one mentionned your avermedia thingy!

First of all people are buying massively Hauppauge HD PVR, colossus or Black Magic intensity pro etc, they never had to wait for avermedia thingy that's why you can be amazed your whole life long. (however the product announced the 28 nov but not yet available looks better, but still no one used it yet) hauppage and black magic have proven success in this field.

Finally, you can compare HDfury to any capture card you want, except if you are stupid, it will never make any sense.
HDfury is made to connect SOURCE to DISPLAY it's dedicated to big3 tubes, CRT and analog screen, That's why it have so many advanced features that you can't understand or take in consideration. Such as triple frame which you can only find on 1000$+ radiance product, i guess you should read more from AVSforum.

I'm sure you are the one who read that this or that converter "works good" or "looks nice" because the picture isn't actually awfull on a 21 inch display. However, bring those converters on Barco Cine 9 or something decent, and get ready for the worst horrible show ever ! That's one of the several key point that you are missing, producing crap is actually very easy and very cheap, and you can get crap at every corner.
However, when you can produce an ultimate picture quality on 3Tubes projectors with several meters base the quality only get better when you go to a smaller screen, the opposite isn't true.

That's why the HT specialists and system integrators will tell you that this or that converter is crap and the average joe will tell you it works nice for his display.

Until you come here with test pattern to make serious claim, stop being a troll, you know nothing about picture quality.

You are a complete moron having a peanut brain, I think one can agree by what you are stating all the time. This quote is just the top of the ice berg!

For kicks, I will break my own rule to never argue with an idiot, cause he will crush you with experience.

If you are were reading my posts, you noticed MULTIPLE TIMES my preferences for a working solution went out to LOW PRICE tags. My recent posts shows the possibilities to capture framepacked 3d footage using the 3dfury.
But it's so obvious you are lacking memory, so maybe a upgrade will benefit you.

And you are so dumb if you think that all people need triple frame. I DO NOT NEED TRIPLE FRAME, do you even understand?!

You can make all the assumptions you want about me; it shows you are lacking some serious intellectual capabilities to even create simple solutions or even solve simple logical equations. Don't be offended, it has been researched before.

I bet you don't even know what this forum is all about.
I suggest you move on or keep OT. It's pretty obvious for me why you registered here and replying non sense exactly in this thread and on my replies. If you had some knowlegde or ideas about FPGA and the news item, which you said brought you here, then share. But I can't see that happen coming from someone like you. They all have failed before, so why wouldn't you? I'm not even that old, but I've seen so many guys like you before, that I can tell from my own experience.

Keep on track, since you don't understand a single thing from my last post, which was maybe too implicit for you.
I tell you explicitly now again, cause thinking is hard now-a-days huh: KEEP ON TRACK OR TAKE A HIKE!

[TheFreeman]

What a noob you are !

My recent posts shows the possibilities to capture framepacked 3d footage
using the 3dfury.

You don't need any HDMI 1.4 converter to capture 3D content, you can just flash a 3D edid into any converter and you are done !
This can be done with any HDfury and any others converters.

Your knowledge on the subject is close to ZERO.

The simple fact that you spend time writing in CAPS/NO CAPS your product name here: "AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR" is enough for everyone to understand what you are doing here.

I'm not here to promote anything (unlike you) i'm fully satisfy by my hdfury devices cause it gave new life to my pioneer plasma, i'm also using Moome Card on a G90 and i'm quiet happy with it too. However, i have tested mostly all converters on the planet and apart from hdfury and moome i would never order anyother anymore. that's the point i'm making here, and i'm doing it cause you said it's overpriced, no it's not, my plasma cost me 8000usd just 6 years ago, and my G90 is still producing one of the best picture quality you can achieve today. Like i mentionned earlier, you should just visit AVSforum to find out that any one serious about picture quality came to the same conclusion.

[Casio1987]

What a noob you are !

My recent posts shows the possibilities to capture framepacked 3d footage
using the 3dfury.

You don't need any HDMI 1.4 converter to capture 3D content, you can just flash a 3D edid into any converter and you are done !
This can be done with any HDfury and any others converters.

Your knowledge on the subject is close to ZERO.

The simple fact that you spend time writing in CAPS/NO CAPS your product name here: "AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR" is enough for everyone to understand what you are doing here.

I'm not here to promote anything (unlike you) i'm fully satisfy by my hdfury devices cause it gave new life to my pioneer plasma, i'm also using Moome Card on a G90 and i'm quiet happy with it too. However, i have tested mostly all converters on the planet and apart from hdfury and moome i would never order anyother anymore. that's the point i'm making here, and i'm doing it cause you said it's overpriced, no it's not, my plasma cost me 8000usd just 6 years ago, and my G90 is still producing one of the best picture quality you can achieve today. Like i mentionned earlier, you should just visit AVSforum to find out that any one serious about picture quality came to the same conclusion.

Who's the "noob"?
Again, this prove you are too dumb to even function like a normal human being.

You got ZERO knowlegde about 3d formats and what's needed to even capture a framepacked 3d image on a hdmi 1.3 input.
You totally fail, so dumb, I can't believe it!

Tike a hike idiot.

[TheFreeman]

Slow down, we can't handle the numerous arguments you are putting on the table.

Now since you lack of everything; The layout of the stacked frame buffer HDMI 1.4a 3D video format and the picures of the HDMI 1.4a SbS 3D video format and of the TnB 3D format can all be sent over a HDMI High Speed cable from a device with either a HDMI 1.3 or a HDMI 1.4 transmitter chip. Ex on the PS3, it creates the packed frame format in it's firmware(note in any lowe level hardware) and outputs using it's 1.3 trasmitter chip. Cable and Satellit STBs output in either SbS or TNB format with their HDMI 1.3 transmitter chips.

[Casio1987]

Slow down, we can't handle the numerous arguments you are putting on the table.

Now since you lack of everything; The layout of the stacked frame buffer HDMI 1.4a 3D video format and the picures of the HDMI 1.4a SbS 3D video format and of the TnB 3D format can all be sent over a HDMI High Speed cable from a device with either a HDMI 1.3 or a HDMI 1.4 transmitter chip. Ex on the PS3, it creates the packed frame format in it's firmware(note in any lowe level hardware) and outputs using it's 1.3 trasmitter chip. Cable and Satellit STBs output in either SbS or TNB format with their HDMI 1.3 transmitter chips.

Idiot, go to school if you can't study for yourself.

I pointed this out in my previous posts. Go read and figure. Oh wait, you can't, you are too dumb.

Stupid retard, really stupid.

I already said PS3 outputs frame packed 3d over hdmi 1.3 and you CAN NOT capture it with hdmi 1.3, since its resolution IS NOT 1080p.
Are you actually SUPER RETARDED or what?! And now the irony that I don't know anything about it. I do not know all, let alone not even a fraction of it when it comes in full detail, but what I know is a lot more than you do.

I request a lock on this thread.
I'm sick of stupid no brain spammers like you. You got nothing to bring on the table, NOTHING AT ALL. You must have a nice life to register on forums putting your pathetic emotions, keeping the lies flowing and coming with nothing more than pure FUD.
What part of ENOUGH IS ENOUGH don't you understand? Thank God there are laws, so we can put away idiots like you away from people who want to live in peace and order.

I'm not wasting my time anymore with you, I'm done with you.

People come here seeking and sharing knowlegde, but you are nothing more than a riot member. You must hate educations, I bet you do. I wish you luck in RL with this attitude and come back when you got a success story with it.

[mufunyo]

.







.

[TheFreeman]

No no, don't lock this thread, it's so funny for avermedia lol !

Of course 3D from PS3 is not 1080p120 because you can't send this over HDMI cable ! You lost common sense of what ?

That's how 3D can be outputted out of a PS3:

1920x1080p x 48Hz (for BD Video)
1280x720p x 100Hz (for BD Video)
1280x720p x 120Hz (for BD Video and Games)

3D 1080p48 = 2205x1920p24

Everyone one knows that or can get this information (such as here: http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/ ), would you now stop spreading stupid thing and stop referring to what you wrote since you wrote only bollocks mr dumbass. Thanx.

One thing for the reader, you can get 3D for games going through HDMI1.3 device such as Receiver, splitter,converter.
While it's not true for 3D movies.
However the Frame Packing 3D format places the audio a different place within the data frame than previous HDMI formats. If you have a HDMI 1.3 device allows you to pass thru the HDMI signal unaltered then it may work for the 3D video.

Conclusion : That's why good design can get it through

To get further information, one should refer to 3D BLU RAY SPECS:

A piece in the Blu-ray 3D spec contains language that indicates
the PS3 cannot handle 3D playback and BD-J at the same time:

As
defined in Part 3-1 Section 8.2.4, the Existing Game Console does not support
the BD-J application environment during Stereoscopic Output Mode. Therefore, in
order to maintain compatibility with the Existing Game Console, the First
Playback Title will be authored such that:

1) it will not execute a BD-J
application that depends on Stereoscopic Output Mode for successful execution;
and

2) it will execute a BD-J or HDMV application that, when run on a 3D
Game Console, directly or indirectly(*) activates an HDMV Title to play the
relevant Stereoscopic PlayList(s) in Stereoscopic Mode.

To everyone looking to expand their knowledge on the subject, you can refer to AVSforum and people who have done this since ages, cause you can't count on the '2 posts above" noob for anything serious.

That's thread is a good start : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1278019

[Brad]

Follow-up to our earlier discussion of AVerMedia vs HDMI, just last week they announced a new card called Game Broadcaster HD (C127) that includes HDMI and VGA input: http://www.avermedia.com/avertv/Press/NewsDetail.aspx?Id=406

They advertise 1080p support on the product page but aren't shouting from the rooftops that this is 1080p60, so I think it's safe to say it will max out at 1080p30 like the C729.

[EDIT: Never mind, they have said on YouTube the max is 1080p60 and have Xbox 360 footage showing that it's set to 1080p. Awesome.]

[TheFreeman]

Follow-up to our earlier discussion of AVerMedia vs HDMI, just last week they announced a new card called Game Broadcaster HD (C127) that includes HDMI and VGA input: http://www.avermedia.com/avertv/Press/NewsDetail.aspx?Id=406

They advertise 1080p support on the product page but aren't shouting from the rooftops that this is 1080p60, so I think it's safe to say it will max out at 1080p30 like the C729.

[EDIT: Never mind, they have said on YouTube the max is 1080p60 and have Xbox 360 footage showing that it's set to 1080p. Awesome.]

Yeah, that's the one i mentionned above, and that's the one that looks decent. Previous hardware doesn't seem to give anything else than Hauppauge or Black magic.

[Brad]

Well, the previous hardware is less than half the price of BlackMagic's.

[Draikin]

Follow-up to our earlier discussion of AVerMedia vs HDMI, just last week they announced a new card called Game Broadcaster HD (C127) that includes HDMI and VGA input: http://www.avermedia.com/avertv/Press/NewsDetail.aspx?Id=406

They advertise 1080p support on the product page but aren't shouting from the rooftops that this is 1080p60, so I think it's safe to say it will max out at 1080p30 like the C729.

[EDIT: Never mind, they have said on YouTube the max is 1080p60 and have Xbox 360 footage showing that it's set to 1080p. Awesome.]

From what I've read it accepts 1080p60 but only actually records 1080p30. I don't know if that's a hardware limitation or not though.

[jagabo]

From what I've read it accepts 1080p60 but only actually records 1080p30. I don't know if that's a hardware limitation or not though.

There are no 1080p60 sources aside from camcorders and cameras. Broadcast TV, cable, satellite, Blu-ray are all 1080i or 720p.

[Draikin]

There are no 1080p60 sources aside from camcorders and cameras.

There are a number of XBox360 and PS3 games that do run at 1080p60, so for a capture device aimed at gamers 1080p60 support is not entirely irrelevant.

[Brad]

Broadcast TV, cable, satellite, Blu-ray are all 1080i or 720p.

Blu-ray also supports 1080p up to 24 fps.

Now I'm wondering whether the Game Broadcaster HD will accept any 1080p refresh rates below 50Hz.

[jagabo]

There are no 1080p60 sources aside from camcorders and cameras.

There are a number of XBox360 and PS3 games that do run at 1080p60, so for a capture device aimed at gamers 1080p60 support is not entirely irrelevant.

Ah yes, I forgot about game consoles.