Sony Wants to upgrade my Ps3 or refuses to play disks.

[cal_tony]

A few years ago I put a BR disk in my PS3 and there was a pop up indicating that I would have to upgrade my firmware. It asked if I wanted to do it now. My response was NO. The next prompt indicated it would play the disk but would have to be updated before it played any others. And that's what happened. So, I updated my firmware from the original Bluray disk that I tried to play.

Well, it happened again yesterday. I put a Sony disk ( the Tourist) into my PS3. a pop up appeared stating I had firmware 3.15 and needed to upgrade to 3.50. It asked if I wanted to do it now. I assumed the firmware was on the Sony Sony disk. It gave me the option to do it now or it would play the disk but if I did it would not play any others until it was updated.

So, is there a way around this?

Tony

[jagabo]

So, is there a way around this?

Yes, stop using Sony products.

[cal_tony]

@jagabo

Other than that obvious comment.... Of course I'll never buy another Sony product again.

I said that to myself when it happened the first time. But, I still have the player. I thought it was an illegal procedure when it happened the first time but since they are still doing it, I guess it's legal for them to do it.

My feeling is that since I elected to not play the disk, every time from now that I put a Sony movie into my PS3 I'll be given the same choice. Play the disk and you'll have to upgrade.

I still have a downloaded copy of firmware 3.15 so I was wondering if it could be re-installed after Sony disabled the currently version.

Tony

[mazinz]

I do not own a PS3, nor do I know if this option would be inconvenient for you, but when you want to watch a regular film how about making sure the stupid thing is not connected online at all? That way it should (techincally) not do a firmware check

[yoda313]

I do not own a PS3, nor do I know if this option would be inconvenient for you, but when you want to watch a regular film how about making sure the stupid thing is not connected online at all? That way it should (techincally) not do a firmware check

I don't think that would work. The firmware is in the player already whether its online or not. It either has the latest or it doesn't.

Remember all those flyers in the hddvd and bluray discs that states it was made with the highest quality but may have been made after your player was made and may need a firmware update. Its the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

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@cal_tony - why don't you want to upgrade your ps3? Are you using linux on it and don't want to lose the linux option on an upgrade? I'm afraid if you want to use linux and watch blurays on your ps3 you can't do both anymore.

However they have unlocked the ps3. If you wanted to go in that direction you could try at your own risk. However I don't know if that still alleviates the firmware check.

Of course you could rip with dvdfab or anydvdhd and get a bluray burner and then play the backup. The backup should not require a firmware check. HOWEVER I have no knowledge if that is true.

Does anyone know if a burnt backup bluray WON'T check firmware compatiblity?

edit - of course another long option is to backup the disc and make an avchd to play on your ps3.

[mazinz]

I do not own a PS3, nor do I know if this option would be inconvenient for you, but when you want to watch a regular film how about making sure the stupid thing is not connected online at all? That way it should (techincally) not do a firmware check

I don't think that would work. The firmware is in the player already whether its online or not. It either has the latest or it doesn't.

Remember all those flyers in the hddvd and bluray discs that states it was made with the highest quality but may have been made after your player was made and may need a firmware update. Its the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

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@cal_tony - why don't you want to upgrade your ps3? Are you using linux on it and don't want to lose the linux option on an upgrade? I'm afraid if you want to use linux and watch blurays on your ps3 you can't do both anymore.

However they have unlocked the ps3. If you wanted to go in that direction you could try at your own risk. However I don't know if that still alleviates the firmware check.

Of course you could rip with dvdfab or anydvdhd and get a bluray burner and then play the backup. The backup should not require a firmware check. HOWEVER I have no knowledge if that is true.

Does anyone know if a burnt backup bluray WON'T check firmware compatiblity?

edit - of course another long option is to backup the disc and make an avchd to play on your ps3.

Oh I meant for future reference if he gets the firmware issue resovled, from that point on. Going forward the player may work or may not work with whatever title, but if it is not connected it should not give him the "upgrade or never play again option"

[jagabo]

George Hotz might have a fix for you! LOL

[cal_tony]

My PS3 is not connected online. It seemed to me that the Sony Bluray disk checked my PS3 and found it had software that was not current. My impression was that the disk itself contained the upgradable firmware. The popup asked me if I wanted to upgrade NOW.

In response to Yoda.
If my PS3 will play the movie without upgrading.. which was what the popup indicated, what gives Sony the right to disable it from playing my old Blurays that used to play on the device.

I ended up playing the movie from my computer. And to the question "Why don't I want to upgrade"
The upgrade is not for my benefit. The movie will play without it but as a trade off.. Sony will disable it and not let it play any other movies until I do up grade it.


Tony

[jagabo]

Yes, part of bd+ is that the discs can contain new virtual machine firmware and force an upgrade to play the disc.

[cal_tony]

@jagabo
Is this something that is forced on all bluray players or just the PS3?" . Seemed odd that the Player(PS3) and the movie were both from Sony.

What bothered me was that The popup said it would play the movie without an upgrade but it would disable my player so it would not play any future movies without the upgrade.

When it happened the first time (3 or 4 years ago) I elected to play the movie without the upgrade. The movie played but after that it wouldn't play anything else. It was disabled and I was forced to upgrade.

Tony

[yoda313]

@cal_tony - I'm afraid I can't add to the discussion. I have my ps3 online and always upgrade to the latest firmware.

I'm not sure that refusing the upgrade will truly stop it from playing older discs. That doesn't seem right to me. However what part of drm truly seems right???

There are two things I can suggest:

If you don't have anyway to get the ps3 online and that is your question you can upgrade the firmware of the ps3 by usb memory stick or harddrive or disc. That option is in the upgrade setting to do by online or storage media.

- get a regular bluray player.

2.0 bd live players are really much more inexpensive these days. If you don't want to mess with your ps3 save up for an entry level bd live player and you won't have to touch the ps3. You'll probably still have to eventually update the bluray player but you won't touch your ps3 that way.

[cal_tony]

@cal_tony - I'm afraid I can't add to the discussion. I have my ps3 online and always upgrade to the latest firmware.

I'm not sure that refusing the upgrade will truly stop it from playing older discs. That doesn't seem right to me. However what part of drm truly seems right???.

The last time this happened(years ago) I played the movie in question without the upgrade.
The movie played. But after that it would not play any of my old BRs. I was forced to upgrade to obtain the origional functionality.

So, maybe I'm not making myself as clear as I can on this issue.

1. I have no problem to get my PS3 to upgrade. I just don't want to If I don't have to.
2. It seemed that the upgrade firmware was on the Bluray disk and it would install it with my permission
3. The popup indicated it would play the movie without the upgrade. (so, it really doesn't need the upgrade)
4. If I elected to play the movie without the upgrade, my unit would be disabled and would no longer work
until it was upgraded.

So, if I have to upgrade I will.

I mostly wondered why Sony would be allowed to disable my unit. I also wondered what would have happened if I had put that same movie in another brand of Player.

My feeling is that my existing firmware would have played the disk but my firmware did not include the provision to enable Cinavia protection, So Sony is just forcing the issue even though the disk in question would have played without the upgrade. Non-Sony movies don't force this.

So is this Sony forcing upgrades on Sony players or does it extend to all players.

Tony

[MJPollard]

And people wonder why us "Luddites" have no incentive or intention to "upgrade" to Blu-ray.

[jman98]

I mostly wondered why Sony would be allowed to disable my unit. I also wondered what would have happened if I had put that same movie in another brand of Player.

My feeling is that my existing firmware would have played the disk but my firmware did not include the provision to enable Cinavia protection, So Sony is just forcing the issue even though the disk in question would have played without the upgrade. Non-Sony movies don't force this.

So is this Sony forcing upgrades on Sony players or does it extend to all players.

Tony

Sony is schizophrenic company since they are both an electronics producer and a media producer (and a studio). The electronics part of the company wants their devices to "just work" and be compatible and give users a good experience so they will buy more of them. The media side of Sony hates consumers and views them all as thieves to be stopped before they steal Sony out of business. Unfortunately the media side of the house usually wins the battles.

For what it's worth, I have a Momitsu BluRay player. I have NEVER upgraded the firmware on it. I've never been asked to do so by a BluRay disc. I don't buy Sony discs (they just don't have anything I want to see) but I do buy Disney BluRays at times and Disney is 2nd only to Sony in terms of paranoia among the big studios. I've never had a BluRay disc refuse to play. My suspicion is that the media side of Sony, not the electronics side, is driving this. They are trying to stop BD piracy by resorting to Cinavia and it's probably a way to force Cinavia onto your PS3. Too many smart people are trying to crack Cinavia for me to believe that it won't eventually be defeated. DVDFab does have a less than optimal way to copy discs that use it, but some folks in the know have expressed concerns that these backups may not work at all in the future even though they work now. You can do the research if you're interested in the technical details.

Doom9 might have some interesting info on this mandator Sony firmware upgrade if you want to go over there and look.

[gll99]

If you update the firmware you will be able to play your new BR discs but there is a price to pay. At least one negative feature will be added (see Cinavia protection) and one other feature will be disabled (using another OS such as Linux). These may or may not affect you directly depending on how you plan to use your PS3. Personally I chose not to update at this time when faced with the same option. I have other BR players so the decision was easy for me.

[fritzi93]

Don't have a PS3, but I have two Sony BDP-S360s. In settings I have BD Internet Connection set as "Do Not Allow", and Software Update Notification set to "Off".

I have zero interest in BD-Live crapola and likewise for firmware updates. All discs play.

I wonder if somewhere in your settings you can disable the damn updates?

[Cauptain]

For all problems with BD, update to Geohotz CFW and Multiman 1.17.

Multiman his building awesome media player for all format (BD and MKV included) its play a 3D BD too.

[cal_tony]

Don't have a PS3, but I have two Sony BDP-S360s. In settings I have BD Internet Connection set as "Do Not Allow", and Software Update Notification set to "Off".

I have zero interest in BD-Live crapola and likewise for firmware updates. All discs play.

I wonder if somewhere in your settings you can disable the damn updates?

Don't think that option is avail.
As I had previously stated. Sony will play the movie without the update but they will also somehow instruct my PS3 hard disk not to play anything else until it is reflashed.

As others have said above A BR player will play any movie without an internet connection. You just wont get the added features.

My Unit has never been connected to the internet but they have put instructions into some of their movies to overwrite my PS3 operating sys and it just seems to be illegal. Maybe not in the USA..but it must be illegal in other places.

Tony

[ricoman]

It's probably a ploy to make sure that Cinavia protection get into your PS3 so you can't play backups from Cinavia discs. That would be a very dirty trick if it is. Disabling your PS3 for other discs against your wishes would seem illegal to me.

[gll99]

Don't have a PS3, but I have two Sony BDP-S360s. In settings I have BD Internet Connection set as "Do Not Allow", and Software Update Notification set to "Off".

I have zero interest in BD-Live crapola and likewise for firmware updates. All discs play.

I wonder if somewhere in your settings you can disable the damn updates?

It doesn't matter if you are internet connected or not (although you need the internet to update). Unfortunately you lose BD playback of some newer BR discs that will not play without the updated firmware. It's not just to access BD Live or anything like that. The new discs will not play at all if you don't update. This is a deliberate anti consumer act by Sony. Best to speak with your wallet until Sony gets the message.

[fritzi93]

Well, all I can say is I'm glad I don't have to deal with that. So, is it just the PS3, or do any of the newer BD standalone players have this "feature"?

I'm thinking ricoman is right about the purpose behind this.

[Cornucopia]

It looks to me like the BD vm on the disc (EVERY disc) is checking these few things:
1. What's the firmware version on the player?
2. What's the firware version level up to NOW (the time the disc was made)?
3. What's the required firmware version for this disc to play?
4. Is this disc "DIRTY" (meaning, open to pirating!!)

When you put in a new disc, if #1<#2, it asks if you want to upgrade. It probably has a copy of that most recent firmware on disc, so even if you DON'T have an internet connection, or even if the player is NOT BD-Live capable, it can still update.
If you say "NO" (which it gives you the option of doing, so NOW it's "your wishes"), it sets the flag on the player as "DIRTY".
Any other BD disc sees the player as dirty and refuses to play until the firmware is updated, making the player "CLEAN" again.

Some discs and some players STRONGLY ENFORCE this rule, some don't. Since most all Hollywood major studios are in on the patent pool on BD, they've got a stake in maintaining this system, whether they want to strongly enforce it or not. While some discs might still play (because it isn't required firmware for their disc), they still refuse "on principle". They consider it makes their disc less secure to use a "DIRTY" player.
The firware updates both add+remove features and bugs, but they also are supposed to update the BD+, AACS, and other encryption keys - marking some keys as "DIRTY" and so it's possible for a PLAYER's hardware keys to be BLACKLISTED.

Yeah, Sony & Disney are some of the worst of the bunch, but they aren't alone.

This is NOT "illegal" per se, because you bought into it when you: A. Bought the player, B. Bought the disc, C. "Chose" to disable the update, against the producers' wishes and played the disc anyway.

Yes, this sucks! That's the brave new world of BD & DRM for you. Not going to change much until copyright law changes in favor of consumers (which at this pace will be a LONG time).

Scott

p.s. BTW, from what I can tell, this isn't limited to just the PS3 or just Sony products, just that they are the most strict enforcers.

[lowellriggsiam]

One of the latest firmware updates with to override the jailbreak that allowed people to play unauthorised software such as emulators. The other part was changes was to newer BD encryption.