ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI - Black Screen in virtualdub

[usually_quiet]

any update on this? I just updated to W7 x64 and having the same problem with a Sapphire PCI Theater 650. I get no video in either Amcap, MS Livecam, VirtualDub but I do get on Nero Vision 10. I would like to get it working with VirtualDub in order to capture lossless.

What connections are you using for capture? S-Video or composite, plus the card's audio line in, or the analog tuner? Did capture ever work with a different OS using this card and any of the software that isn't working now?

[mojonba]

I am using s-video and audio connections. I just got the card (used) for its "superior" analog capture qualities so I havent used it for any other older OS. Thing is capture is working on Nero Vision 10. It appears Nero uses another set of standards to access the capture card beacuse it detects the digital tuner as wells as the analog inputs. Virtualdub, amcap, Ms Livecam which I believe use Directshow only detect the analog tuner and inputs not the digital tuner. Nero detects "ATI AVStream Analog Capture" & "ATI BDA Digital Tuner" while Virtualdub and Co. detect only "ATI AVStream Analog Capture (Directshow)"

[mojonba]

This is the most informational post on the issue: http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=305
It appears it is an issue with ATI 750 cards as well.

[jagabo]

Of course, it make sense that the author of VirtualDub would know the most about it.

[jman98]

I was planning capturing lossless to later compress x264. But that is beyond the point. Right now the only program that is able to access the card is Nero Vision and its settings are extremely limited. The point of the thread is to find the culprit of why virtualdub and others are not able to capture.

Look, it DOES matter WHAT you are going to capture. But since you don't want to provide details, I will be more than happy to not respond any more because I really don't care at all if you get this working or not. Good luck.

[mojonba]

[QUOTE=jman98;2070235]

Look, it DOES matter WHAT you are going to capture. But since you don't want to provide details, I will be more than happy to not respond any more because I really don't care at all if you get this working or not. Good luck.

I might not have stated it directly but It could be inferred that I am capturing analog sources by svideo and/or composite. I am not capturing TV. Therefore Windows Media Center is either inadequate/far from ideal capture application. I don t think there is any reason to get upset. Helping is optional and voluntary.

[usually_quiet]

I am using s-video and audio connections. I just got the card (used) for its "superior" analog capture qualities so I havent used it for any other older OS. Thing is capture is working on Nero Vision 10. It appears Nero uses another set of standards to access the capture card beacuse it detects the digital tuner as wells as the analog inputs. Virtualdub, amcap, Ms Livecam which I believe use Directshow only detect the analog tuner and inputs not the digital tuner. Nero detects "ATI AVStream Analog Capture" & "ATI BDA Digital Tuner" while Virtualdub and Co. detect only "ATI AVStream Analog Capture (Directshow)"

AMCap and Virtualdub can't use the digital tuner. They were never designed to do that. They only use the analog tuner or A/V connections. I have never used MS Livecam, so I can't help you with it.

It is necessary to set up the inputs for VirtualDub and AMCap. They don't automatically detect an active connection.

Since you want to use VirtualDub, I will give you instructions for that. These should provide picture and audio, but the program is a quirky. Sometimes the picture and audio may be lost while adjusting other settings. If you loose the picture or sound, go through these settings and check them again. It is likely one has been changed, especially #16. As far as capture goes, you will need to figure out the best compression and settings to use on your own .

1. Open Virtualdub and select "Capture AVI" from the File menu.
2. After entering Capture Mode, open the Device menu and make sure "ATI AVStream Analog Capture (Direct Show) is selected
3. Open the Video menu.
4. Select Capture Filer and then the Filter Properties tab.
5. Set Volume level to a non-zero number (I use 200) and click "Apply" otherwise audio is muted.
6. Open the Video Decoder Tab and set the video standard to the appropriate choice for the video and click "OK".
7. Open the Video menu again, select "Capture pin" and choose the resolution you want, then click OK.
8. Open the Video menu and choose Crossbar, then select "1:Video SVideo In" and click "OK"
9. Open the Video menu and select Video Source and make sure the topmost "Video SVideo" is marked.
11. Open the Audio menu and check "Enable Audio Capture"
12. Open the Audio menu again and check "Enable audio playback" for the present since you want to make sure audio has been set up correctly. You may prefer not to use this setting while capturing.
13. Open the Audio menu once more.
14. Click "Audio Source" and the topmost "Audio Line"
15. Open the Audio menu once again.
16. Select "0 capture Device"

Those who use freeware and shareware video software need to be prepared to spend quite a bit of time figuring out how to use them on their own. Guides and documentation are often sparse and the authors usually don't attempt to make their programs fool-proof.

Asking about the video source is reasonable. It may make a difference. Specific problems with the captured video can be related to the video source (VHS, camera, game console, TV, etc) being captured and some video sources are hard to capture at all.

[mojonba]

usually_quiet: I appreciate your help. I am aware of the difficulties on using freeware software. In fact I have captured before with a $10 EasyCap DC60 and know my way around Virtualdub w/o problems. In my opinion this is just a case of bad ATI drivers. I just would like to know if someone else is using an ATI in Windows7 or Vista x64 with Ati 10.4 drivers without problems capturing.

[usually_quiet]

usually_quiet: I appreciate your help. I am aware of the difficulties on using freeware software. In fact I have captured before with a $10 EasyCap DC60 and know my way around Virtualdub w/o problems. In my opinion this is just a case of bad ATI drivers. I just would like to know if someone else is using an ATI in Windows7 or Vista x64 with Ati 10.4 drivers without problems capturing.

If the drivers were bad, then most likely Nero would not be working either. It would have been better if you had made it clear what information you wanted. I am not using Virtualdub and a 64-bit OS, so I can't help you with this.

Your initial post gave me the impression that you need help with settings. I think that is likely still the real problem, given that Nero works.

[jagabo]

I seem to recall that when I installed an ATI 650 USB2 on a Windows 7 64 bit system the only driver that worked with VirtualDub is the one that Windows installed automatically. The driver on the CD that came with the device and anything downloaded from AMD/ATI would not work.

[mojonba]

My Ati 650 is PCI and windows doesnt seem to have built in drivers. I just uninstalled the downloaded Catalyst 10.4 and it is recognized as an Unkwown Device and it doesnt find drivers even when asked to find them on Windows Update.

[usually_quiet]

GraphStudio might be an alternative for basic capture. Working graphs can be saved and re-used.

Graph construction varies according to the capture device and capture codec. I used GraphStudio to make the capture graph below for Huffyuv, which includes audio and video display. The first two filters in the graph came with the TV Wonder HD 650 drivers. Other than those and HUffyuv, I'm not sure where the other filters came from. Some may have come with GraphStudio, others may be standard for Windows 7. I haven't tested it extensively yet, just made a few brief captures because I'm short on disc space.

After adding all the filters, drag and drop from pin to pin to connect as shown. Configure the XBar, Analog Capture, and Huffyuv filters as for the similar items in Virtualdub. To capture to a different file, delete the file writer and add it again with the new name.

[Edit]I forgot to say a few things.

It isn't necessary to manually add the AVI Decompressor filter. It is added automatically when the Video Renderer is connected to Output1 on the Infinite Pin Tee.

Interleaving (under the AVI Mux filter's properties) should be set to "Capture" I'm not sure of the best settings to use for Frequency or Audio Preroll so I left them set to what could be the default values, 1000 and 0 respectively. After the capture is finished, check for dropped frames by looking at the AVI Mux properties.

I used the following settings for GraphStudio itself. Under the Graph menu, I checked "Use Clock" to keep track of the recording time. It is not related to the small clock symbol on the Default Direct Sound Device filter. Do not click on the clock symbol. Once activated, it will cause the preview and recording to stutter, as described in the link at virtualdub.org. http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=305

I think "Abort Render After 10 Seconds" is on by default in the Options menu. Uncheck it if you want to monitor the video and audio longer than that. The options menu also has some other settings. "Display as File Name" allows the output file name to appear in a file writer instead of the generic name for that filter. I haven't found out what "Direct Connect Mode" and "Exact Match Lookup Mode" do.

[jagabo]

Nicely documented filter graph.

[mojonba]

usually_quiet: I'll give GraphEdit a try sometime tomorrow. Thanks.

jagabo: According to this Microsoft Hardware Database. Windows 7 does have built on drivers for the 650. Strangely they do not install automatically on my system. I'll give it another try to see what is all about.

[usually_quiet]

I added a bit more information to my post above for the Huffyuv filter graph.

[mojonba]

FWIW: I just installed Vista x86 (32 bit) in a spare hard drive with 10.4 drivers. AMCAP and Virtualdub capture video just fine. So it must be a case of crappy x64 drivers since the op was having the same behavior with in Vista x64. What is everybody with w7 x64 using to capture these days that has good analog input quality (3d comb filter etc.)?

[usually_quiet]

FWIW: I just installed Vista x86 (32 bit) in a spare hard drive with 10.4 drivers. AMCAP and Virtualdub capture video just fine. So it must be a case of crappy x64 drivers since the op was having the same behavior with in Vista x64. What is everybody with w7 x64 using to capture these days that has good analog input quality (3d comb filter etc.)?

Too bad GraphStudio is not working out.

I looked at a lot of TV cards and capture devices before I bought mine and last year, and few new products have been introduced since then. Cards with 3D comb filters are less common than those with 2D comb filters, or no comb filter shown in the specs. Also, PCI TV tuner cards and capture devices are few. PCIe and USB devices are far more numerous.

It is mostly cards with hardware MPEG-2 encoders that list some kind of comb filter, but not every card with hardware encoding allows hardware encoding to be bypassed, and so can't be used with VirtualDub. Cards that use software for encoding will work with Virtualdub, but most software based capture/TV cards don't list comb filters of any kind in their specs.

These are the only non-ATI Theater product I can remember seeing that have 3D comb filters. http://www.avermedia-usa.com//AVerTV/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=455 White box: http://www.avermedia-usa.com//AVerTV/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=476 They have Windows 7 64-bit drivers. I don't know whether they can be set up to bypass the hardware encoder, or work well with VirtualDub, and there is no PCI version only PCIE. If by chance you want to use AverMedia's AverTV Media Center, the non-white box versions must be purchased. The white box versions are deliberately disabled for use with AverMedia's own software.

Windows 7, especially a 64-bit version of it, is not a good choice for video capture at present. IMO the existing capture tools developed for XP would need to be overhauled in order to work better, or entirely new tools need to be developed for Windows 7.

[Edit]Just in case you are not aware of it, comb filters are really only helpful when using a composite connection, or coax via an analog tuner. When using S-Video, they don't do much of anything.

[TheFamilyMan]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I've been fighting this issue too. I'm running win 7 Home 64 with an ATI 650 Theater Pro pcie. It works perfectly every time I use it with Window Media Center. When running vdub to capture it grabs the video maybe 2% of the time, otherwise the dreaded black screen. And if I happen to get the video feed going it usually loses it withing 20 minutes. I tried virtualvcr, iuvcr, windows media encoder and some aussie payware capture app (forget the name, essentially a payware vdub) and all fail in the same manner. If I use Nero Video, Correl DVD Movie Factory or WMC there are no problems capturing except there is zero flexibility to set formats nor AVI codecs. I've tried every 650 driver from the first Vista 64 to the latest and all fail. I've been using vdub for 8 years and have exhaustively tried every setting I can find in it to no avail, plus it'll "magically" work and then lose it all on its own...weird. Plus I've tried every rev of vdub I can find. And yes, I've tried killing all WMC services and even reg hacked my 650 card out of WMC to no avail. So here's my take on this: I'm screwed; I can forget about vdub analog capture with my Win7 system. Apparently there is some alternate way of accessing the 650 hardware that WMC does which vdub does not. My final resort will be a fresh system reinstall, but I'll wait on that one until forced by other more serious problems. BTW, there's a thread around here from a Hauppauge user in Vista having the same sort of problems. Thanks for reading.

[usually_quiet]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I've been fighting this issue too. I'm running win 7 Home 64 with an ATI 650 Theater Pro pcie. It works perfectly every time I use it with Window Media Center. When running vdub to capture it grabs the video maybe 2% of the time, otherwise the dreaded black screen. And if I happen to get the video feed going it usually loses it withing 20 minutes. I tried virtualvcr, iuvcr, windows media encoder and some aussie payware capture app (forget the name, essentially a payware vdub) and all fail in the same manner. If I use Nero Video, Correl DVD Movie Factory or WMC there are no problems capturing except there is zero flexibility to set formats nor AVI codecs. I've tried every 650 driver from the first Vista 64 to the latest and all fail. I've been using vdub for 8 years and have exhaustively tried every setting I can find in it to no avail, plus it'll "magically" work and then lose it all on its own...weird. Plus I've tried every rev of vdub I can find. And yes, I've tried killing all WMC services and even reg hacked my 650 card out of WMC to no avail. So here's my take on this: I'm screwed; I can forget about vdub analog capture with my Win7 system. Apparently there is some alternate way of accessing the 650 hardware that WMC does which vdub does not. My final resort will be a fresh system reinstall, but I'll wait on that one until forced by other more serious problems. BTW, there's a thread around here from a Hauppauge user in Vista having the same sort of problems. Thanks for reading.

Virtualdub is known to have some problems with the ATI Theater 650 cards. I have Windows 7 32-bit, and tried the 32-bit version of Virtualdub with ATI Theater 650 card, but found GraphStudio, DScaler and AmaRecTV more to my liking. (Since I was not planning on using Virtualdub's filters, Virtualdub was not a necessity.)

However, I don't know if GraphStudio, DScaler or AmaRecTV can work with a 64-bit system. I think all are 32-bit software and although 32-bit software mostly works with 32-bit drivers using Windows 7 64-bit, it isn't true in every case.

If you decide to try AmaRecTV, you have to use a trick in order to get the ATI Theater 650 cards to work. If you get a gray or snowy screen after setting up the parameters for your card, right-click the window and select "Input and Channel" from the menu, then choose something other than the analog line input you want to use. Next right-click the window and select "Input and Channel" again then pick the analog line input you want to use.

Also, regardless of the version of Windows 7 and capture software used, for some reason you won't have access to the card's proc amp controls.

[TheFamilyMan]

Thanks for pointing out those other capture apps. It turns all dscaler suffers the same problem as does somewhat AmaRecTv, but at least AmaRecTV persists on locking a signal, and given a bit of time it eventually locks reliably with the capture sessions I've thrown at it. I agree AmaRecTV is excellent in its lean, direct approach to video capture, and is definitely much better than nothing...much thanks usually_quiet; have a great Thanksgiving!

[smengy]

Hello,
I used the 8-6 version of ati drivers with a Theatre 650 card and never had any problems.
I updated to only Service Pack 2. This computer does not go on interet!!! So i do not
worry about updating it.

I have full control in the panels of the hue, saturation, sharpness controls.

Net framework 2.0
8-6 xp 32_dd_64783
8-6 xp 32 64 ccc (cat control center)
8-6 xp 32 64 wdm 64785 (wdm integrated driver)

I had a x800 xl installed then upgraded to a hd5670.

For the 650 card i used the
6-6 pan comb noise filter
9-6 32-64 ati tv wonder 650 driver
visual C++ patch

So far so good it works flawlessly.

Black screen happened to me, but if I remember right it was after I tried installing the windows media 9 center stuff.