H.264 in AVI or MMKV container!

[aliitp]

good day

I spent days trying to convert a move of mine encoded originally in MKV (H,264 Codec)
my multimedia player cant play MKV files
so i want to convert it to any of the popular formats (am using Xilisoft HD Video Converter 6) and been attempting to convert to AVI (same H.264 Codec) but actually i DID notice difference in the quality in some pretty sensitive parts of the movie including action and heavy rain !
i did notice some parts in the picture was like Fuzzy maybe! (i dunno the real word english aint my mother tongue), lets say similar to spilling water into a water painted picture
am sure u got me!
or even encoding a video at lower bitrate settings

it said in the nfo file that the movie was encoded @ 10.2 Mbps (10200)
when i converted the thing into AVI i did it @ 9000, and even 15k once!
but i still did notice those bad quality images at some parts of the movie

i beleive i did 2-pass also that didnt help either!

my question is, would this be related to Xilisoft HD Video Converter 6 itself?
and will h264 in MKV container look better than h264 in AVI container

plz someone pretty sure about it coz thats a sensitive piece of info !

thx guys

[Jimbo1]

Hi

I tried Xilisoft HD Video Converter 6 along with a number of other commercial software and I found their quality compared with a number of free ones (like, XMedia Recode) poor.

Don't know why. I used quality settings, 2 pass etc. Maybe a number of factors.

I now use Xmedia Recode and am very happy with the quality both AVI and MKV.

[yoda313]

I have read in other posts that h264 in an avi container is not a good idea. I can't remember the exact reasoning but it was mentioned by a seasoned veteran of this website so I don't doubt it.

Actually the two you should consider more are mp4 or mkv for compatibility. H264 in avi is not as common I believe. Mp4 and mkv are much more common for housing h264.

edit - and yes it could certainly be the program you are using. I'd run comparisons using format factory or ripbot264.

[jagabo]

Any time you reencode a video with a lossy codec you will get a decrease in quality.

There's nothing wrong with h.264 in an AVI container as long as it's constant frame rate. The problem with h.264 in AVI is that Microsoft's VFW library may not handle it properly. MKV is a more flexible container overall and is recommended for h.264. MP4 and MPEG transport streams are fine too.

[yoda313]

MKV is a more flexible container overall and is recommended for h.264. MP4 and MPEG transport streams are fine too.

Mkv doesn't quite have the same support as mp4 in the portable video world yet. It's getting closer and bluray players are starting to support it more and more. It would really depend on what your end use is.

If its for a computer than any container would really work.

If its for a hardware player either settop or portable you have to tailor the output to its specific requirements.

[jagabo]

If its for a hardware player either settop or portable you have to tailor the output to its specific requirements.

Definitely.

[aliitp]

I am going to give XMedia Recode 2 a shot right now

I have read in other posts that h264 in an avi container is not a good idea. I can't remember the exact reasoning but it was mentioned by a seasoned veteran of this website so I don't doubt it.

Actually the two you should consider more are mp4 or mkv for compatibility. H264 in avi is not as common I believe. Mp4 and mkv are much more common for housing h264.

edit - and yes it could certainly be the program you are using. I'd run comparisons using format factory or ripbot264.

i really dont mind if the file extension is avi, mp4 or even mpeg! i dont care at all as long as its a known extension (container) and my multimedia player can play on my full hd LCD,

am starting to have the feeling as well thats its the program which is responsible for that poor quality!

but could u plz recommend some application to convert mkv files into mp4 with H264 codec?
i would really appretiate it!

thanks

[Jimbo1]

Hi Again

XMedia Recode will do fine as far as I know. MKV to MP4 works well. I mostly use Average Bitrate (two pass) for H.264 encoding.

[jagabo]

If you are more interested in quality than file size don't use bitrate based encoding, use quality based encoding. In x264 use CRF (constant rate factor) encoding. With quality based encoding you pick the quality and the encoder uses whatever bitrate is necessary to deliver that quality. With bitrate based encoding you pick the bitrate and the encoder delivers whatever quality it can at that bitrate. Quality based encoding is also faster because it can be done in a single pass. I don't know if XMedia Recode supports CRF mode. If not, there are many other free x264 based encoders that do.

What player are you using? What containers and codecs can it handle? What resolutions?

[aliitp]

I keep getting the error: Wrong Video Settings!
after pressing encode the conversion starts and ends immediately and i get that error

jagabo (can i ask what does ur nickname mean? ^_^)?
i think the mentioned app does have that facility
you mean Constant Quality right?
it is set by default to: 25
25 what?! i have no idea
hot to set this any idea?

[aliitp]

If you are more interested in quality than file size don't use bitrate based encoding, use quality based encoding. In x264 use CRF (constant rate factor) encoding. With quality based encoding you pick the quality and the encoder uses whatever bitrate is necessary to deliver that quality. With bitrate based encoding you pick the bitrate and the encoder delivers whatever quality it can at that bitrate. Quality based encoding is also faster because it can be done in a single pass. I don't know if XMedia Recode supports CRF mode. If not, there are many other free x264 based encoders that do.

What player are you using? What containers and codecs can it handle? What resolutions?

am using a touchmate player
its a 1TB inside a multimedia player enclosure
i beleive it plays almost ALL popular formats, except mkv and real videos

thos annoying errors and issues
XMedia would just NEVER encode the video am adding proparly!!! the operation breaks when after hitting encode ina few seconds

[jagabo]

If it's only a matter of the player not playing MKV files you may be able to simply remux into an MP4 container. That will be much faster than reencoding the video. Try using YAMB or AviDemux.

jagabo (can i ask what does ur nickname mean? ^_^)?

I just heard it somewhere and thought it sounded funny.

[aliitp]

If it's only a matter of the player not playing MKV files you may be able to simply remux into an MP4 container. That will be much faster than reencoding the video. Try using YAMB or AviDemux.

jagabo (can i ask what does ur nickname mean? ^_^)?

I just heard it somewhere and thought it sounded funny.

i honestly just heared of demux a showt while ago
like Yesterday only!!
although ive been encoding videos and audio a very long time ago (8 years maybe)

then if such a thing is possible why people bother recoding videos?
am just keen to know
thx

[yoda313]

then if such a thing is possible why people bother recoding videos?

Because remuxing just puts it in a new container without altering the structure of the video itself.

Other times you have to reencode it to a whole new codec and container for a video to be compatible with a device or application.

[aliitp]

then if such a thing is possible why people bother recoding videos?

Because remuxing just puts it in a new container without altering the structure of the video itself.

Other times you have to reencode it to a whole new codec and container for a video to be compatible with a device or application.

i couldnt use any of the two applications you gave me
the first one didnt support MKV files
while the second app keeps crashing and honestly i never used such apps before!

i got with my device what is called a transcode server
its mentioned in the humble manual that to be able to play .ram and .rm files on the TV you need to install the transcode server on you PC
i did
but as i said the manual was humble!
any idea how to work things out with this thing called a transcode server?!

guys ur help will be greatly appreciated really till now i havent figured a way to convert this sh*t into mp4 or avi with H264

[aedipuss]

you could try mkv/avi to mp4 it only converts the parts it needs to to make an mkv into an mp4 for playing on an ipad but it might also work with your player

never heard of "transcode server".

[jagabo]

i couldnt use any of the two applications you gave me
the first one didnt support MKV files

Did you download and install the one that includes the full installer and MkvExtract and Mp4Box?
http://yamb.unite-video.com/download.html

[Jimbo1]

Yes, XMedia Recode does have CRF.

The best quality setting at a good file size is around 18 to 20. 25 and above starts to get a bit blocky.

Have you tried the settings - video copy and audio copy. These settings copy the exact video but change the container.

Sometimes there are issues changing SD to HD using this method.

If you want to know the exact settings I use ( i can e-mail a copy of my best quality / file size pre-set to you and you can use it.

PS - I found converting movies with the Adaptive DCT, and 8x8 Tranform settings enabled led to incompatibility issues with my Tevion HD Media player and Soniq Blu-ray player. Files would not play.

No notable difference in quality not using these.

[aliitp]

you could try mkv/avi to mp4 it only converts the parts it needs to to make an mkv into an mp4 for playing on an ipad but it might also work with your player

never heard of "transcode server".

ill give it a shot right now!

[aliitp]

i couldnt use any of the two applications you gave me
the first one didnt support MKV files

Did you download and install the one that includes the full installer and MkvExtract and Mp4Box?
http://yamb.unite-video.com/download.html

ok i checked those options
but i still get an error and the app could not convert the mkv file with the H264 codec i wonder why!
i didnt bother with it coz am already testing XMedia again and its about to finish ill see the result and then decide what am gonna do next
i hope this time id be satified with the results!
thx pal

[aliitp]

Yes, XMedia Recode does have CRF.

The best quality setting at a good file size is around 18 to 20. 25 and above starts to get a bit blocky.

Have you tried the settings - video copy and audio copy. These settings copy the exact video but change the container.

Sometimes there are issues changing SD to HD using this method.

If you want to know the exact settings I use ( i can e-mail a copy of my best quality / file size pre-set to you and you can use it.

PS - I found converting movies with the Adaptive DCT, and 8x8 Tranform settings enabled led to incompatibility issues with my Tevion HD Media player and Soniq Blu-ray player. Files would not play.

No notable difference in quality not using these.

the less the better you mean?

i have already started converting the file like 16 hours ago~!!
the reason its taking too long i beleive coz i set the conversion speed to Very Slow + i added a 2-pass encoding process to the job

its amazing how slow it could get although i got a pretty good PC :S
Q9550 Quad Core @ 2.83 GHz
4 GB DDR2 @ 1200 MHz
GTX 260 !!

anyways will wait and see

[Jimbo1]

Yes Smaller = better quality but larger file size. 18 or 19 = best quality to size ratio.


It took me almost 29 hours to do Lord of the Rings in Full HD. Bitrate was 3200 two pass. Result was lovely quality movie at 4 gig size file.

[jagabo]

With CRF encoding most of the other settings don't make much difference in the quality of the final result. But if you let the encoder spend more time looking for ways to compress the video the final file size will get smaller. The difference in size between say the "veryfast" and and "veryslow" preset may only be a few percent. The difference in encoding time will be several fold.

[PuzZLeR]

With CRF encoding most of the other settings don't make much difference in the quality of the final result. But if you let the encoder spend more time looking for ways to compress the video the final file size will get smaller. The difference in size between say the "veryfast" and and "veryslow" preset may only be a few percent. The difference in encoding time will be several fold.

A difference of "a few percent" is indeed correct for x264, and for quality that is similar, so I don't bother with anything too slow.

There are even situations where a slower preset can sometimes actually add bitrate depending on your settings (maybe it has something to do with enabling psy-rdo, but not sure).

[aliitp]

thx guys i converted the video to mp4 with H.264 codec its GREAT now
its not PERFCT
put i did see a noticable difference in some scenes and complex parts of the video
ive set it to CRF = 16
thanks again