Frame Rate Conversion

[roberto188]

I have my PC hooked up to my Samsung Plasma. I very often play my bluerays through my computer on my TV. Most of my blue rays have a standard film frame rate of 24 fps. Is there a way for me to rip my blueray to my computer, and reencode the video with a higher frame rate having the encoder interpolate frames, say at 48 fps, or 60 fps to get better, smoother display on my plasma? Please let me know.

PS
shooting in 24 fps is stupid and old.

[Baldrick]

Reconverting is not worth the time....especially hd.

Be sure that you use a graphic card refresh rate that matches your source for smooth playback. I can choose 24hz 1080p for example.

[roberto188]

You say that reconverting is not worth the time, but I will say that I have viewed some "Nature" footage at 60 fps, and it looks PHENOMENAL! Noted on the refresh rate.

[poisondeathray]

Sure, the BIG difference is the nature footage was shot at 60fps or even higher for slo motion sequences. You can't get something for nothing.

The encoder doesn't interpolate frames, but you can generate intermediate frames with motion interpolation algorithms (lots of artifacts or blending) , but they aren't "real" clean frames . Still not worth it IMO

You can use twixtor, or after effects to do this. A free way is to use avisynth with mflowfps or smoothfps

The side effects include edge dragging artifacts and bizzare frames, and slow to process

[roberto188]

Ok. Thanks guys. I just wish the damn film industry would start shooting at higher frame rates, and frame rates that are multiples of the display devices that 95% of people have? What good is shooting 24 fps, if everyones displays run at some multiple of 60hz?

[poisondeathray]

....And some parts of the world 50Hz . So what multiple would you choose to satisfy everyone ? It's a format nightmare because so much money is already invested into the infrastructure & broadcast industry


Many film producers still prefer the 24p judder. They argue it produces a cinematic look or feel. The smooth "sports" or "soap opera" look is actually "frowned" upon in those circles

[roberto188]

I know the artsy fartsy guys love their 24 fps for the "cinematic" look. I think thats stupid. No one ever marveled at how awesome a 24fps film looked like, but they have marveled at how awesome some IMAX HD content looked. I personally prefer the "soap opera" affect. If i converted the 24fps film to 30 fps, would I get something like what is seen on the LCD's that have "Truemotion"?

[poisondeathray]

If i converted the 24fps film to 30 fps, would I get something like what is seen on the LCD's that have "Truemotion"?

No, those sets do the interpolation for you. The quality wildly varies. Some people absolutely hate it, some love it.

So a 24p movie will display at 120fps or 240fps , and it's an even multiple (24x5 = 120, 24x10=240)

If your set doesn't mave motion interpolation, displaying 30p content will usually have every 2nd frame repeated to make up the 60Hz signal

[roberto188]

Are you sure they display 120 fps? That doesn't sound right. So if they are displaying 24fps content the tv is interpolating 96 frames?

[poisondeathray]

120Hz LCD's display at 120 . The 480Hz display at 480. There are different models of "TrueMotion"

I'm not sure if every frame is actually interpolated (there maybe some dupes mixed in, so not every frame is unique moment in time) , this can lead to motion judder (since it's uneven)

[Cornucopia]

Are you sure they display 120 fps? That doesn't sound right. So if they are displaying 24fps content the tv is interpolating 96 frames?

2 things are going on here:

1. Whether the TV supports "Cinema-mode" (aka ITVC and/or direct frame display of 24p)
2. What level of creation is done to achieve 120/240/480/600 Hz (aka is it OFF, frame repeated, frame blended, frame MV interpolated, and how strongly)

A good TV would have Cinema mode, so would correctly handle 24p, then you would choose between these options:

AAAAABBBBBCCCCC (repeated, no new frames created)
A__--B__--C__-- (blended)
A<<>>B<<>>C<<>> (Motion vector interpolated) - this is only top-of-the-line and has a framebuffer delay penalty, but should be better than the previous.

I believe you were thinking of the 2nd instance, and I (and probably poisondeathray) were thinking of the 1st instance.

Scott

[roberto188]

No, I'm thinking of instead of having a TV do the motion vector interpolation and make up intermediate frames, is there an avisynth filter that would do the same? I get that if I convert a video at 24fps to 120fps using most standard methos it's either simply going to duplicate frames (won't make a difference), or blend frames (possible give MORE motion blur or jutter), but is their a filter that will make up NEW intermediate frames halfway between the other frames?

[roberto188]

dfdf

[jagabo]

No, I'm thinking of instead of having a TV do the motion vector interpolation and make up intermediate frames, is there an avisynth filter that would do the same?

poisondeathray already mentioned it.

[budwzr]

I know the artsy fartsy guys love their 24 fps for the "cinematic" look.

The reason they do that is because video is too real looking and comes across as a documentary. Movies are "fuzzed up" a little so you can relax and fall into the fantasy.

[Cornucopia]

Do note that many/most 120 Hz TVs don't ACCEPT 120Hz direct input, they generate 120Hz output. Same with 240/480/600Hz units. Some do, though (probably the most $$$).

In that case, your pre-application to 120Hz would be for naught.

YMMV, and Buyer beware.

Scott

[jagabo]

Do note that many/most 120 Hz TVs don't ACCEPT 120Hz direct input

Exactly.

[KBeee]

And don't forget that the 480/600 Hz. quoted AREN'T screen refresh rates, but sub-field sampling rates that all plasma screens use, though marketed to make Joe Public think it's the same as 100/120 Hz. screen refresh rates.
A true 600 Hz. refresh rate would seem to be an ideal as it's nicely divisible by 24/25/30/50/60 (25*/24*/20*/12*/10*).